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Im hating the way the gaming industry is heading

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    #32
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    Overheal wrote: »
    Wow so you think because you changed the way a game character looked, by saying you didn't like it, that decided whether the game was great or not? You didn't exactly write the Portal Engine. Or create the Normandy. Or do the level design on Darksiders.

    it was an example , dont take things so literally, we are still giving the companies funds to make the sequels when we buy their products and in return they want even more money and bring out half arsed games.


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    #33
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    I don't mind subs if the game is free. Paying €50 then a sub is a bit of a joke. Only reason I tolerate it from MMOs is it goes towards content patches and such.

    In Korea subscription and free 2 play is the standard. Sure Starcraft 2 at launch was free to play as long as you had an active WoW account


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    #34
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Magill wrote: »
    Exactly.... so stop buying fooking second hand games and they'll stop with the online passes !

    I find it laughable that people are complaining about the developers trying to make more money, when they buy second hand games, giving no money to the developers..


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    #35
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    TL,DR

    Just gonna say have you seen the skyrim demo on gametrailers? http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-elder-scrolls/714852

    They talk about 300 hours of gamplay, 150 dungeons? you cant complain about that


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    #36
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    VinLieger wrote: »
    TL,DR

    Just gonna say have you seen the skyrim demo on gametrailers? http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-elder-scrolls/714852

    They talk about 300 hours of gamplay, 150 dungeons? you cant complain about that

    Never underestimate the ability of the vocal minority that use message boards to find fault and whine about everything.


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    #37
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    It has gone from a gaming market to a gaming market . Worldwide recession, lads... and it's only gonna get worse.


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    #38
    irishdude11
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭irishdude11


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    we have to take back what we created , we dont owe the developers , the developers owe us , we are the consumer we created those buildings , we make the game great not them .its bull****

    Do you think these companies are some kind of charities or something? Or that they make games just for the craic?

    Its a multi-billion dollar industry, investors have massive sums of money invested in games companies and like any business they are all about maximising their return. You can get emotional about it all you want but every every single business out there has one goal and that is to maximize profit. These companies have decided that this is the best way for them to make more cash. And so what if you think it is unfair. Do you think they should deliberately harm their profits just so lads like you get what you want? They make a product, you can either buy it or not buy it, thats as far as it goes. They 'owe' you jack sh*t.


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    #39
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    I paid 45 quid for Modern Warfare 2, I have almost 30 days playtime on it, 30 days, thats over 700 hours of gaming for less than the cost of a night on the beer. IW owes me nothing. (well maybe my life back :pac: )


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    #40
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    It has gone from a gaming market to a gaming market .

    It has always been that way.


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    #41
    Orim
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Orim


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    it was an example , dont take things so literally, we are still giving the companies funds to make the sequels when we buy their products and in return they want even more money and bring out half arsed games.

    But you've already said that you don't give developers funds? You buy second hand and might buy new if a game really impresses. But if everyone took this attitude then we'd never get anywhere and developers would die off. We never would have seen the glory that is Batman:AA becuase of this.

    God forbid that people should be grateful to games developers for producing the content which has given countless hours of entertainment.

    Fair enough you don't want DLC, don't buy it. The only time I agree with the anger shown by people is when the DLC is advertised in game. That does my nut. But I strike back by not buying future games. I could do more but I'm happy just not having it affect my life.

    Also how do you know any game is half-arsed? I'm sure the developers are always working as hard as possible, you can generally hear it in interviews. So it's all down to the bean counters and unless you're involved in the budget for a studio you really have no idea what you're talking about. For you all you know, the projected DLC sales may have encouraged the accountants to realease a little extra funding for the main game. So in reality, this apocalypse of DLC may in fact be encouraging better games.

    Rambling point but meh. The self-entitlement of some is absolutely sickening. Try a little gratitude. Personally I'm very grateful to Bullfrog, Blizzard and Capcom among many others for the games that they have produced which I have enjoyed, with or without DLC.


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    #42
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    and can people please stop saying we're in a recession? whats that got to do with gaming prices? if you cant afford something tough sh1t, the people who cant afford things are usually the ones who make the most noise about being entitled to them regardless. If I want to but a new game I just don't go out a weekend or two that month, problem solved.


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    #43
    Big Lar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    PC gaming has gone downhill totally, All the consoles are the same so if a game runs on one it will run on them all, PC's on the other hand have so many different configurations that it takes so much more manpower to get the game up and running.

    So the morale of the story is buy a console or play the older games on your PC

    COD4 for ever............... Wooooooooo.


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    #44
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    irishdude11 wrote: »
    Do you think these companies are some kind of charities or something? Or that they make games just for the craic?

    Its a multi-billion dollar industry, investors have massive sums of money invested in games companies and like any business they are all about maximising their return. You can get emotional about it all you want but every every single business out there has one goal and that is to maximize profit. These companies have decided that this is the best way for them to make more cash. And so what if you think it is unfair. Do you think they should deliberately harm their profits just so lads like you get what you want? They make a product, you can either buy it or not buy it, thats as far as it goes. They 'owe' you jack sh*t.

    if they want to make money fine DUH but they better bring a full game out and not knickle and dime , they are only doing it cause people buy their dlc and pre order exclusives , they actually owe us cause without us their business is as good as dead, dont come out with this spoon fed bull**** its ok they can rip us off all they want cause their a company , its obviously isnt hurting them when they go off and pay 100 million advertisement for battlefield 3 , wouldnt it be better if they devoted all that money and time into a well worthy game than trying to fight their rivals so called call of duty crowd. accept getting ripped off and paying full price for a half game so


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    #45
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Orim wrote: »
    But you've already said that you don't give developers funds? You buy second hand and might buy new if a game really impresses. But if everyone took this attitude then we'd never get anywhere and developers would die off. We never would have seen the glory that is Batman:AA becuase of this.

    God forbid that people should be grateful to games developers for producing the content which has given countless hours of entertainment.

    Fair enough you don't want DLC, don't buy it. The only time I agree with the anger shown by people is when the DLC is advertised in game. That does my nut. But I strike back by not buying future games. I could do more but I'm happy just not having it affect my life.

    Also how do you know any game is half-arsed? I'm sure the developers are always working as hard as possible, you can generally hear it in interviews. So it's all down to the bean counters and unless you're involved in the budget for a studio you really have no idea what you're talking about. For you all you know, the projected DLC sales may have encouraged the accountants to realease a little extra funding for the main game. So in reality, this apocalypse of DLC may in fact be encouraging better games.

    Rambling point but meh. The self-entitlement of some is absolutely sickening. Try a little gratitude. Personally I'm very grateful to Bullfrog, Blizzard and Capcom among many others for the games that they have produced which I have enjoyed, with or without DLC.

    If I could thank this twice I would, people seem to think games are made by a few people in an office with no costs, the development tools, software, paying the coders, programmers, designers, artists, graphic designers, playtesters, the sound department, the people who do the animation motion capture, the voice talent, the musical people, the merchandising and release of the game? these people all do this for free do they?

    when the game is as a good and fun to play as say, Uncharted 2 where you can tell they've put genuine craft and love for the product into it then its all the better. Are there cynical cash ins? of course, but the same can be said for any industry, movie sequels, remastered Beatles albums, etc etc. If you dont agree, dont play the games, simple as. Dont buy it second hand down the road and give no money to the people that put thousands of man hours into making something you think should have to pay half nothing for because you dont agree that an OPTIONAL addon should be paid for. If you wont want DLC, dont fcuking buy it! its not like a game doesnt complete unless you pay more, you're buying optional extras or addons, so stop whinging.


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    #46
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    Orim wrote: »
    But you've already said that you don't give developers funds? You buy second hand and might buy new if a game really impresses. But if everyone took this attitude then we'd never get anywhere and developers would die off. We never would have seen the glory that is Batman:AA becuase of this.

    God forbid that people should be grateful to games developers for producing the content which has given countless hours of entertainment.

    Fair enough you don't want DLC, don't buy it. The only time I agree with the anger shown by people is when the DLC is advertised in game. That does my nut. But I strike back by not buying future games. I could do more but I'm happy just not having it affect my life.

    Also how do you know any game is half-arsed? I'm sure the developers are always working as hard as possible, you can generally hear it in interviews. So it's all down to the bean counters and unless you're involved in the budget for a studio you really have no idea what you're talking about. For you all you know, the projected DLC sales may have encouraged the accountants to realease a little extra funding for the main game. So in reality, this apocalypse of DLC may in fact be encouraging better games.

    Rambling point but meh. The self-entitlement of some is absolutely sickening. Try a little gratitude. Personally I'm very grateful to Bullfrog, Blizzard and Capcom among many others for the games that they have produced which I have enjoyed, with or without DLC.

    Thats why their was huge uproar with marvel vs capcom 3 yeah ? or how about dante new look in devil may cry , im not even going to respond to a person whos grateful for capcom ;)


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    #47
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    if they want to make money fine DUH but they better bring a full game out and not knickle and dime , they are only doing it cause people buy their dlc and pre order exclusives , they actually owe us cause without us their business is as good as dead, dont come out with this spoon fed bull**** its ok they can rip us off all they want cause their a company , its obviously isnt hurting them when they go off and pay 100 million advertisement for battlefield 3 , wouldnt it be better if they devoted all that money and time into a well worthy game than trying to fight their rivals so called call of duty crowd. accept getting ripped off and paying full price for a half game so

    Oh ffs, spending money on adverstising generates more revenue, more revenue means more money to spend on future projects and recoup the money spent making the game you're advertising (and the cost of that advertising) to begin with, is the concept of business lost on you or something?


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    #48
    ghostchant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭ghostchant


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    Thats why their was huge uproar with marvel vs capcom 3 yeah ? or how about dante new look in devil may cry , im not even going to respond to a person whos grateful for capcom ;)

    Capcom made the Mega Man games, Street Fighter 2 and Duck Tales for the NES. For these and many more I am eternally grateful :)


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    #49
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    ghostchant wrote: »
    Capcom made the Mega Man games, Street Fighter 2 and Duck Tales for the NES. For these and many more I am eternally grateful :)

    but they changed how Dante looks, the damage is irreprable


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    #50
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    hooradiation wrote: »
    It has always been that way.

    Well it has always been a market but I remember when games where cheaper, better and didn't hold anything back for DLC or whatever... and trading games is what made the gaming industry. Just look at the history of games. So no, the gaming market hasn't always been more of a market than it is about games.... you can tell that just by the quality of games these day.
    krudler wrote: »
    and can people please stop saying we're in a recession? whats that got to do with gaming prices? if you cant afford something tough sh1t, the people who cant afford things are usually the ones who make the most noise about being entitled to them regardless. If I want to but a new game I just don't go out a weekend or two that month, problem solved.

    lol


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    #51
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    krudler wrote: »
    Oh ffs, spending money on adverstising generates more revenue, more revenue means more money to spend on future projects and recoup the money spent making the game you're advertising (and the cost of that advertising) to begin with, is the concept of business lost on you or something?

    as i said 3 times dont come out with bull**** that a company hurting if they are willing to spend that amount of money on advertisement , yes i know how a business run, read between the lines my friend ;)


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    #52
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    ghostchant wrote: »
    Capcom made the Mega Man games, Street Fighter 2 and Duck Tales for the NES. For these and many more I am eternally grateful :)

    Like square enix recently capcom are on the decline the past is the past , i dont see any resident evil fan excited bout re5 or raccon city and all they asked for was it to be like re4, they cancelled mega man so what do they have to offer now:(


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    #53
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    Well it has always been a market but I remember when games where cheaper, better and didn't hold anything back for DLC or whatever... and trading games is what made the gaming industry. Just look at the history of games. So no, the gaming market hasn't always been more of a market than it is about games.... you can tell that just by the quality of games these day.

    This is some rose-tinted glasses nonsense right here.
    It's always been a business, always about money and games are about the same quality now as they were when you were a kid.


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    #54
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    as i said 3 times dont come out with bull**** that a company hurting if they are willing to spend that amount of money on advertisement , yes i know how a business run, read between the lines my friend ;)

    the concept of "spend money to make money" then? by that logic companies like Coke and Mcdonalds should stop wasting money on ads, sure everyone knows what they are right?

    and what "half a game"? have you bought recently?


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    #55
    ghostchant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭ghostchant


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    Like square enix recently capcom are on the decline the past is the past , i dont see any resident evil fan excited bout re5 or raccon city and all they asked for was it to be like re4, they cancelled mega man so what do they have to offer now:(

    Okami/Okamiden? Street Fighter 4? Phoenix Wright? Ghost Trick? More than most (for me anyway)


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    #56
    Orim
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Orim


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    Thats why their was huge uproar with marvel vs capcom 3 yeah ? or how about dante new look in devil may cry , im not even going to respond to a person whos grateful for capcom ;)

    Of course I'm grateful to Capcom.

    I've played some iteration of SF4 everyday for the last two and a half years. That is thousands of hours of gameplay.
    The Onimusha series is one of my favourites ever and again I've got untold numers of hours spent on that.
    Megaman 1 through many have given me a massive amount of frustration :)

    Those are just three series off the top of my that Capcom have given and I have spent a massive amount of time playing, for fairly minimal monetary inuputs.

    There's also the older arcarde games like Ghouls n Ghosts which probably got more money out of me then any of the "modern" games mentioned above.

    Add to them I've played Street Fighter 2 on and off for the 20 or so years. Why the hell wouldn't I be grateful?


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    #57
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    hooradiation wrote: »
    This is some rose-tinted glasses nonsense right here.
    It's always been a business, always about money and games are about the same quality now as they were when you were a kid.

    Indeed, games were more expensive back then as well, I paid 70 pounds for SF2 on the snes, thats probably about 90 quid in todays money if not more.

    new games are 45 quid and less on launch day, if you're paying more you're just buying them in the wrong places. special editions and the like are different.


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    #58
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    hooradiation wrote: »
    This is some rose-tinted glasses nonsense right here.
    It's always been a business, always about money and games are about the same quality now as they were when you were a kid.

    Well then we'll have to agree to disagree. You think it has been about nothing but $$$... I think otherwise.


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    #59
    Orim
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Orim


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    Well it has always been a market but I remember when games where cheaper, better and didn't hold anything back for DLC or whatever... and trading games is what made the gaming industry. Just look at the history of games. So no, the gaming market hasn't always been more of a market than it is about games.... you can tell that just by the quality of games these day.

    Games was always a market. Do you know why older games are so much harder? It's because they would be in the arcade and the developers wanted to get as much cash as possible from you so they made the games as hard as hell.

    With the early consoles, games were insanely expensive. They were more expensive in pounds 15 years ago then they are now which means that gaming prices have ignored inflation and the recession. It's only in the last couple of years that things got cheaper.


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    #60
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    1. Difficulty isn't directly related to the quality of the game.
    2. I wasn't talking about the arcade times.
    3. Games are more expensive to me even though my financial position hasn't changed.
    4. I've never bought a game as expensive as some of you have priced them, ever, at any time. I can only assume that I've been very lucky or you've all been ripped off many times and are unlucky.
    5. I know games were always a market. Don't be making it out as though I'm trying to say games are somehow detached from reality... the very point of this thread is saying how they're very much not.


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    #61
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,131 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    as i said 3 times dont come out with bull**** that a company hurting if they are willing to spend that amount of money on advertisement , yes i know how a business run, read between the lines my friend ;)
    Your argument is tired and invalid. It has nothing to do with "Hurting" or slumping sales, it has to do with them seeing an opportunity to make more money. It's not like Piracy and 2nd Hand Games would ever kill or be allowed to kill the Gaming Industry. They use DRM because it has made them more money. They put protections/barriers on 2nd hand games to make more money. Halo didn't have 2nd hand protections. It didn't even have online multiplayer. But it still raked in a quarter billion dollars in sales. Black Ops, with all the DRM, Multiplayer, DLC and other bull****? A cool Billion plus.

    Frankly your head is far up your ass if you think you are owed anything. I can be terribly upset that Vanquish is not coming to PC but they do not owe me a PC port just because I'd be willing to buy it. Nor does a developer owe you because they want to market their game with DLC/Micro-Expansions, or change the appearance of their Intellectual Property. You know what I do when I don't think I like what a game has to offer? I don't buy it. I don't run out and pre-order something that is probably going to suck. You can tell pretty early on which ones you will like and which you won't. And which you aren't willing to pay $60 for. Modern Warfare 2/3 would be one such example, something I'd grab for $30, but they know they have a winner, and have no incentive to introduce lower prices.
    VinLieger wrote: »
    TL,DR

    Just gonna say have you seen the skyrim demo on gametrailers? http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-elder-scrolls/714852

    They talk about 300 hours of gamplay, 150 dungeons? you cant complain about that

    Sounds as if they're going to make the oblivion mistake: 15 original dungeons, recycled 10 times each. If it's gonna take forever to finish I probably won't buy it. The Quality vs. Quantity approach, imo.


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