U20 6 Nations & World Cup 2011

the perfect ten · 30-05-2011 08:11PM

I can't see how they would call up Luke McGrath in the middle of the tournament as he has never trained with the U20 squad. I have not seen Marmion in action but have not been too impressed with Du Toit - his box kicking is very poor in my opinion.

jolley123 · 30-05-2011 09:11PM

Anyone got any info on Sam C-Murray. Is he over-age or is he missing out for other reasons. Feel bad for him what with him having missed a chance to prove himself due to illness.

irishbucsfan · 30-05-2011 09:14PM

jolley123 wrote: »

Anyone got any info on Sam C-Murray. Is he over-age or is he missing out for other reasons. Feel bad for him what with him having missed a chance to prove himself due to illness.

I think he just fell out of contention with the illness. I wouldn't write him off yet at all, given his background. He'll be back in shape in no time no doubt.

Given the depth in the back 3 I can understand why they felt comfortable leaving him behind, even if I'd personally rate him ahead of Boyle/O'Halloran.

jolley123 · 30-05-2011 09:18PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think he just fell out of contention with the illness. I wouldn't write him off yet at all, given his background. He'll be back in shape in no time no doubt.

Given the depth in the back 3 I can understand why they felt comfortable leaving him behind, even if I'd personally rate him ahead of Boyle/O'Halloran.

Yeh, he's in the Academy so he'll get more opportunities I suppose. I personally was looking forward to a back-line that looked like this.

10.Paddy Jackson
11.Craig Gilroy
12.Luke Marshall
13.Brendan Macken
14.Conway
15.Sam C-Murray

I mean that's just talent personified. Still, O'Halloran is quality too.

Former Coach · 31-05-2011 10:59PM

GerM wrote: »

So what are we thinking for the starting team against England?

15. Andrew Conway
14. Tiernan O'Halloran
13. Brendan Macken
12. Luke Marshall
11. Craig Gilroy
10. Paddy Jackson
9. Peter Du Toit
8. Jordi Murphy
7. Aaron Conneeley
6. Shane Buckley
5. Daniel Qualter
4. Michael Kearney
3. Conor Carey
2. Niall Annett
1. James Tracey

Very harsh on a few players and quite likely I'm wrong with a couple of calls there. Any other year Hanrahan, Kelly, Boyle and McKeon could be nailed on starters. I hope Jackson steps up and has a big tournament. If he can release those backs outside him we've a chance of taking one or two scalps. Marshall will be able to take a lot of pressure off him though and can give a second 5/8th option. Shame that injury has claimed some of the brightest stars but that's the case in a lot of seasons.

The England game is going to be a big ask. The likes of Ford and Farrell as their outhalf options are a cut above what we have and losing Moore is a blow up front. Their front five are absolute behemoths that are physically bigger than most senior outfits. We're going to need an absolutely colossus of a performance to match them.

I think that will be very close to the starting 15. Wouldn't be surprised though to see Gilroy or O'Halloran at 15 and Conway at 11. McKeon should be very close but Jordi Murphy will probaby be at 8 for England if he's fit.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 01-06-2011 09:55PM

The IRB JWT is currently coming to a close, only the final left to play where Samoa meets Japan. I would bet on Samoa winning and get promoted to the JWC for 2012

02-06-2011 10:47AM

link.

Ireland Under-20s are putting in final preparations ahead of the IRB Junior World Championship which starts in Italy next week.

Ireland take on England next Friday with a televised clash with England in Treviso and four days later they face South Africa at the same venue. They travel to Rovigo for the final Pool C game against Scotland on 18th June.
Eight of the players selected saw action at last summer's tournament in Argentina - among them are Leinster winger Andrew Conway, who notched five tries in five matches, and Ulster out-half James McKinney, who was Ireland's top points scorer with 37 points.

Looking forward to Friday week's opening fixture against England, Ruddock said: "It'll be a real cup final alright because we need to win that first game.

"I haven't finalised the team against England yet but there will be eight or nine changes to the team that lost against them in the Six Nations in Athlone.

"We've had more opportunity to work together cohesively as a unit than we had before that game too. I don’t want to make any excuses for the Six Nations though because we didn't play well.

"England are Grand Slam champions and they'll be confident they can progress in this tournament. We've got to play with the passion of underdogs but with the mentality that we're winners as well. It's all about trying to find that balance."

The Ireland U-20s have strung together warm-up wins over the Munster and Leinster Development sides in recent weeks and Ruddock reckons the backs division, in particular, will cause problems for their opponents in Italy.

"I think the conditions will suit us. We have a very talented back-line with quality players like Paddy Jackson, James McKinney, Luke Marshall, JJ Hanrahan, Brendan Macken, Craig Gilroy and Andrew Conway.

"There's some great pace, footwork and footballing skills there. We have a very potent attacking back-line. The harder the ground will be the quicker the rucks will be and the better the presentation of the ball will be."

irishbucsfan · 02-06-2011 01:00PM

I like how he mentioned Jackson, McKinney, Hanrahan and Marshall all in the same sentence. Shows there's a bit of competition for the 10 and 12 jerseys.

Dr.Evil · 02-06-2011 05:29PM

For somebody not as well informed of the u20s, how are the forwards? I know the backs but I only 2 or 3 of the forwards, Murphy, Annett and Tracy.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 02-06-2011 05:56PM

Dr.Evil wrote: »

For somebody not as well informed of the u20s, how are the forwards? I know the backs but I only 2 or 3 of the forwards, Murphy, Annett and Tracy.

Forwards tend to mature later than backs so there are only a few with Magners experience

McKeon and Coneely are good and along with Murphy will probably lead to a strong Irish back row

Kearney has offers for both the Leinster and Connacht academy for next season in the second row. He looked good during the 6 nations.

Other than that I can't say much

irishbucsfan · 02-06-2011 06:03PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Forwards tend to mature later than backs so there are only a few with Magners experience

McKeon and Coneely are good and along with Murphy will probably lead to a strong Irish back row

Kearney has offers for both the Leinster and Connacht academy for next season in the second row. He looked good during the 6 nations.

Other than that I can't say much

Don't forget Shane Buckley who is another top back row forward. Just going into the Munster academy. Will probably start if his performances in the 6 Nations are anything to judge it by.

(According to the indo he's on a development contract but I think they just mean an academy contract)

Front row of Tracy, Annett and Carey are good footballers but might be outmuscled by larger foreigners.

There are good players throughout the pack, but Ireland always seem to struggle in the forwards when it comes to this stage. Lets hope this group can change that.

ormond lad · 02-06-2011 06:24PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't forget Shane Buckley who is another top back row forward. Just going into the Munster academy. Will probably start if his performances in the 6 Nations are anything to judge it by.

(According to the indo he's on a development contract but I think they just mean an academy contract)

Front row of Tracy, Annett and Carey are good footballers but might be outmuscled by larger foreigners.

There are good players throughout the pack, but Ireland always seem to struggle in the forwards when it comes to this stage. Lets hope this group can change that.

Buckley had been sub academy this season, he was upgraded to full academy along with James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Duncan Casey, Cathal O’Flaherty, and Cian Bohane.
The only team as a whole the front row of the 20s will have problems with in relation to size is the south africans. The SAs smallest prop is bigger than our biggest, I know its not all about size but the power difference when facing 2 guys 10-15 kgs heavier can make quite a difference

profitius · 02-06-2011 06:32PM

ormond lad wrote: »

Buckley had been sub academy this season, he was upgraded to full academy along with James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Duncan Casey, Cathal O’Flaherty, and Cian Bohane.
The only team as a whole the front row of the 20s will have problems with in relation to size is the south africans. The SAs smallest prop is bigger than our biggest, I know its not all about size but the power difference when facing 2 guys 10-15 kgs heavier can make quite a difference

Indeed. Ireland will have to try to move the big lumps around the field and avoid scrums.

Do you know what type of player Cian Bohane is? What size he is?

GerM · 02-06-2011 06:37PM

We've a talented enough pack but unfortunately they're dwarved by the English and Bok packs. In 5 years they'll catch up but I don't think anyone should really get their hopes up about Ireland making waves in this tournament. We've some very talented players but the majority of our players are out of school a year and have no experience of a professional set up whilst the English for example have been in regional academies since the age of 15. The difference between them physically will be noticeable when they line out. The Irish team will not be short of aggression and won't take a backwards step but in an arm wrestle, they can't beat the others I think.

It's a shame we don't produce players as physically imposing as other nations because our back line is as talented a back line as we've been able to compile since the 2006 team that had Jones, Fitz, Earls, Keatley and Cave.

ormond lad · 02-06-2011 06:39PM

profitius wrote: »

Indeed. Ireland will have to try to move the big lumps around the field and avoid scrums.

Do you know what type of player Cian Bohane is? What size he is?

hes a 12, dont know what size he is, played AIL with dolphin all season

bamboozle · 03-06-2011 08:12AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't forget Shane Buckley who is another top back row forward. Just going into the Munster academy. Will probably start if his performances in the 6 Nations are anything to judge it by.

(According to the indo he's on a development contract but I think they just mean an academy contract)

Front row of Tracy, Annett and Carey are good footballers but might be outmuscled by larger foreigners.

There are good players throughout the pack, but Ireland always seem to struggle in the forwards when it comes to this stage. Lets hope this group can change that.

you'd hope Feek has been drafted in for a few weeks to give these guys a crash course on scrummaging techniques.

Richarz · 03-06-2011 08:17AM

Niall Annett is bigger than Flannery, he won't be outmuscled. Great player and is going to have a huge future.

theKramer · 03-06-2011 09:53AM

Richarz wrote: »

Niall Annett is bigger than Flannery, he won't be outmuscled. Great player and is going to have a huge future.

He is frickin' huge for a hooker. This article says he is 17.5st :eek:

Player profiles of the U20's at the bottom of the article

GerM · 03-06-2011 10:11AM

He's a big bloke and has a good future ahead of him. There's a space for a quality back up for Best in the Ulster match day squad. Next season should see him get some good game time especially with Best gone to NZ. However, in the bigger picture, he's not particularly large. The English and Sough African packs are made up of monsters. One of the English props is 130kg and he can move! Their locks are both 6'7" and 18stone I think. South Africa are similar, props that are over 120kg and I know one of their locks is 6'8" and well over 18 stone. We can't compete physically with that sort of natural bulk and power.

profitius · 03-06-2011 10:14AM

theKramer wrote: »

He is frickin' huge for a hooker. This article says he is 17.5st :eek:

Player profiles of the U20's at the bottom of the article

He doesn't look anywhere near that.

Just checked the Ulster website. Annet is 15st.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/academy_squad.php?player=90639&includeref=dynamic

03-06-2011 10:23AM

Agreed, we don't develop near as quickly as many other countries, but we don't really want to either tbh.

Guys peaking at 18stone aged 19 are going to have a huge trade off with longevity of career imo.

The difference between the Irish U19 squad and the U20 squad is insane. Consider 2/3 more years of conditioning and strength training, and most of the guys who are light, skillful and full of beans aged 18, can tone up, bulk up, and retain a lot of the skills and agility that they'd had before.

Whereas an 18 year old already at that weight / size, can struggle with mobility exercises, effectively becoming muscle bound by the exercises that they've pushed through at an early age. These guys will be doing Yoga and Pilates to try to push agility and flexibility back into their games, while others are getting stronger and sharper doing pitch and weight exercises (When they're 22-25).

There's also the problem with injuries, an overly large teen will struggle to recover from any injury far more than his limber Irish counterpart. Also, he will open himself up to new injuries that his Irish counterpart won't be susceptible to as his range of motion is limited by his "oversized" body.

There are costs and benefits to hitting the gym and eating like a horse early, but I think that we have the right idea, considering that there isn't many U7s leagues, there isn't rugby played on streets etc. Rugby is a small but growing sport in this country, and getting the skills through before getting the size up takes longer as a result.

03-06-2011 10:25AM

profitius wrote: »

He doesn't look anywhere near that.

Just checked the Ulster website. Annet is 15st.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/academy_squad.php?player=90639&includeref=dynamic

fairly sure that that's quite dated info, considering he played U20 last year too, and this would surely be reflected on the page.

I reckon that could well be his weight over 18 months ago, but having seen him last year, would seriously doubt that he is only 15s.

roycon · 03-06-2011 11:02AM

i saw niall annet a few weeks ago. im 5'11 hes considerably taller than me. probably 6'2 he's definitely not 17.5 stone. 16.5 probably sounds about right. because he's so tall he doesnt look that heavy but he certainly is a good player and leader

Former Coach · 04-06-2011 11:35PM

roycon wrote: »

i saw niall annet a few weeks ago. im 5'11 hes considerably taller than me. probably 6'2 he's definitely not 17.5 stone. 16.5 probably sounds about right. because he's so tall he doesnt look that heavy but he certainly is a good player and leader

Annett's a superb player and leader. He's a future senior international if he can stay free of injury.

munster nomad · 08-06-2011 01:49PM

Sorry if i'm a bit off topic, but does anyone know if U20 WC is been shown on any TV channel??
Had a look at setanta/sky/rte - i cant find anything?...

profitius · 08-06-2011 02:03PM

munster nomad wrote: »

Sorry if i'm a bit off topic, but does anyone know if U20 WC is been shown on any TV channel??
Had a look at setanta/sky/rte - i cant find anything?...

I think some of the Ireland games are. Some on sky. And I also think the games will be shown on the IRB website for free.

GerM · 08-06-2011 02:22PM

munster nomad wrote: »

Sorry if i'm a bit off topic, but does anyone know if U20 WC is been shown on any TV channel??
Had a look at setanta/sky/rte - i cant find anything?...

The official IRB JWC site has a full list of televised games along with broadcasting partners. Eurosport and Sky will be broadcasting games in this part of the world. Ireland's games against England and South Africa will be on Sky as far as I can recall.

ormond lad · 08-06-2011 02:27PM

munster nomad wrote: »

Sorry if i'm a bit off topic, but does anyone know if U20 WC is been shown on any TV channel??
Had a look at setanta/sky/rte - i cant find anything?...

The IRB website is streaming games as well
10th June - England v Ireland - Sky
14th June - Ireland v South Africa - Sky
18th june - Ireland v Scotland

Sky Sports Live Coverage
Friday, June 10
England v Ireland
South Africa v Scotland
Tuesday, June 14
England v Scotland
Ireland v South Africa
Saturday, June 18
Italy v Wales or Argentina v New Zealand
England v South Africa
Wednesday, June 22
Semi Final 1
Semi Final 2
Saturday, June 26 Final – 1810 (plus England play-off match if not in Final.)

S4C Live coverage
Argentina v Wales
New Zealand v Wales
Italy v Wales
one semi final if Wales is involved
third place final if Wales is involved
Final if Wales is involved

ormond lad · 09-06-2011 01:15PM

IRELAND UNDER-20 Team & Replacements (v England Under-20s, IRB Junior World Championship Pool C, Stadio Comunale di Monigo, Treviso, Friday, June 10, kick-off 6.10pm local time/5.10pm Irish time):
15 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
14 - Andrew Conway (Blackrock/Leinster)
13 - Brendan Macken (Blackrock/Leinster)
12 - Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)
10 - Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
9 - Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile)
1 - James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)
2 - Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) (capt)
3 - Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster)
5 - Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster)
6 - Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7 - Dominic Gallagher (Dublin University/Ulster)
8 - Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Replacements:
16 - David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
17 - Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster)
18 - Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster)
20 - Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster)
21 - James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
22 - JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)

09-06-2011 01:15PM

link

The Ireland Under-20 team, sponsored by PwC, to play England in their opening Pool C match of the IRB Junior World Championship in Italy has been named.

Ireland Under-20 head coach Mike Ruddock has named 11 changes to the team that faced England in their last outing of the RBS Under-20 6 Nations earlier in the year.
Craig Gilroy has been selected at full-back and is joined in an exciting back-three by the experienced Andrew Conway and Andrew Boyle. Leinster's Brendan Macken and Luke Marshall from Ulster make up the centre pairing.

Paddy Jackson, another player with Magners League experience, starts at out-half and is partnered at half-back by newcomer Kieran Marmion.

Hooker and captain Niall Annett will be joined in the front row by James Tracy and Tadhg Furlong, with Iain Henderson combining with Michael Kearney in the second row.

The pack is completed by flankers Jordi Murphy and Dominic Gallagher and number 8 Eoin McKeon from Connacht.

Speaking ahead of Friday's opening fixture, Mike Ruddock said: "The players have trained very well. We have had a really good preparation with two warm-up games which we didn't have before last year's tournament, so we are really positive about our build-up.

"We are going into the tournament in a very positive frame of mind and we know that England are favourites for this game.

"We realise that they are the Under-20 Grand Slam champions and we respect that, however this will be a different Ireland team to the one that they played in the Six Nations with as many as 11 changes to the starting team.

"We have prepared well with senior Ireland coaches, Les Kiss and Gert Smal, helping out and we are as ready as we can ever be for a game of this magnitude."

Two of the Ireland Under-20s' Pool C matches will be broadcast on Sky Sports - the game against England and next Tuesday's clash with South Africa.

Those two games will also be streamed live on the official tournament website and there will be further coverage of the knockout stages on TV and online.

IRELAND UNDER-20 Team & Replacements (v England Under-20s, IRB Junior World Championship Pool C, Stadio Comunale di Monigo, Treviso, Friday, June 10, kick-off 6.10pm local time/5.10pm Irish time):

15 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
14 - Andrew Conway (Blackrock/Leinster)
13 - Brendan Macken (Blackrock/Leinster)
12 - Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)
10 - Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
9 - Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile)
1 - James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)
2 - Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) (capt)
3 - Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster)
5 - Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster)
6 - Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7 - Dominic Gallagher (Dublin University/Ulster)
8 - Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht)

Replacements:

16 - David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
17 - Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster)
18 - Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster)
20 - Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster)
21 - James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
22 - JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)

IRELAND UNDER-20 POOL MATCHES (all kick-off times are local time) -

Friday, June 10, 6.10pm: England v Ireland, Stadio Comunale di Monigo, Treviso (live Sky Sports 4)
Tuesday, June 14, 8.10pm: Ireland v South Africa, Stadio Comunale di Monigo, Treviso (live Sky Sports 3)
Saturday, June 18, 8.10pm: Ireland v Scotland, Stadio Mario Battaglini, Rovigo

Dominic Gallagher goes straight in at 7, having watched him play for last 2 seasons, I'm not surprised in the slightest.

U20 6 Nations & World Cup 2011

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