Is David Norris Toast?

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Nice bit of mudslinging there, anyone who objects to Norris views on pedophilia must be a bigot.

Today, May 22nd, I interview David Norris, in Ireland’s Sunday Independent newspaper. During that interview he said our last interview in 2002 “saved” his life. How? Because it overturned a slanderous allegation that had been made about him in another newspaper and led to him receiving widespread public support. That’s the kind of thing that makes me proud to be an interviewer. Likewise, Norris said he hopes this interview will be in my upcoming book of inspirational interviews, Walk On With Hope In Your Heart. It may be. Here is the 2002 interview, followed by the latest.

The Joe Jackson Interview. David Norris.

Half way through this interview Senator David Norris hurriedly left his office in Leinster House, explaining “I’m too distressed to continue right now.” Five minutes later he returned, tried to continue but, within a minute or so, broke down and cried. And not superficial tears. The kind that rose from some atavistic depths within his soul. Indeed, as the Senator cried his hand was clamped to his forehead as if he was fearful it, too, might explode. David Norris also considered halting this interview altogether, telling me he was “terrified” that even referring to recent tabloid allegations might make “even one person” believe what that newspaper alleged.

But Norris finally agreed to continue, saying he believes, ultimately, in “the decency of the Irish people” and agreeing they’ll be better placed to make up their minds if they hear the full story.
So what did that newspaper allege? In one headline, “Senator Backs Sex With Children” under which was placed the claim, “Fury at gay’s ‘paeodphilia is OK’ message”. All of which arose followed an interview Norris gave to Magill magazine. In which what he actually said was: “I haven’t the slightest interest in children, or in people who are considerably younger than me. I cannot understand how anybody could find children of either sex in the slightest bit attractive sexually…but in terms of classic paedophilia, as practised by the Greeks, for example, where it is an older man introducing a younger man to adult life, there can be something said for it. Now, again, this is not something that appeals to me. Although when I was younger I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, treating me with affection, teaching me about life.”

Why was David “deeply wounded” by what he descriibes as the “tabloidisation” of his original interview?
“It is the cruellest thing that has ever happened to me. And I’ve lived with it, with a clear conscience, but it has been immensely painful” he explains.
“I can control it consciously but when I go asleep I’m wracked by nightmares in which I am unjustly accused of all kinds of terrible things I have never done. And why it wounds me so much is because I have fought so hard for the rights of people who are damaged, underprivileged and abused and this is an attempt to put me in the camp of the abusers. I am against abuse. It horrifies me. And I understand the pain of victims. I’ve been working in this whole area for more than thirty years. Don’t forget that way back Mary McAleese and myself set up the Committee for Homosexual Law Reform. And, more recently, I set up the prototype for the Foreign Affairs Committee, with Michael D Higgins. I also work extensively for Human Rights, in general.”

Still straining to gather his emotions Norris apologises, saying he hopes all this doesn’t sound like boasting on his behalf. I assure him it doesn’t. It sounds more like a man pleading for his political career. He continues.
“Well, in fact, I’m just back from a visit to Thailand where we were looking at the situation of HIV and the trafficking of women and children for sexual purposes. I was asked to be the leader of that group. And I was responsible and successful as that leader. Then I come home to this.”
What was his initial response to the article?
“Horror” he responds. “It so completely misrepresents everything I said. In the interview I said I cannot understand how anyone would consider it appropriate to have sex with children. And that the penetration of juveniles, of either sex, was wrong and harmful. So how can anyone say I back sex with children? But at the same time I knew what my views were. And I felt, and hoped, people who followed my career over the years would know what my record was. And what I stand for. And that I am a decent person.”

Nevertheless, even those who support Norris might question his assertion that there is something to be said for “classic paedophilia.”
“I got a letter from the Professor of Greek in Trinity and he, of course, understands what I was saying. Yet it was ‘pederasty’ I said, the magazine got it wrong” counters David. “But all I’m saying is that when I was seventeen, forty year ago, it was illegal to be gay. People were driven into bushes, public lavatories and that’s all there was for them. So if somebody, a few years older, who is handsome, athletic and so on, came along, the majority of young gay people would think that is a better alternative.”
Is the scenario David just described – furtive encounters in public parks and loos – how it was for him at seventeen?
“Not really. I got so involved in politics that I had to lead, virtually, a celibate life” he responds.” I also always felt I was entitled to dignity so these furtive encounters never appealed to me.”

Norris obviously was more of a romantic, no doubt longing to be lovingly introduced to sexual realities, treated with affection, taught about life. He was thirteen when he first fell in love. “With an older lad in school” but he never told the guy. Not that being gay was “easy” at the time.
“I lost all my youth, all the experiences of young manhood” he claims “Going to dances, holding hands, going on a date to the cinema. All my friends had that. I had nothing. Except this stifling sense of isolation.”
Until what age?
“I didn’t consciously meet another gay man until I was in my middle 20′s” he says.”So it was intensely lonely. But I escaped into a world of music and literature. That was where I lived, emotionally.”

“ David Norris is a Protestant, describes himself as “deeply religious” says “there never was” any collision between his faith and homosexuality and rejects the view of those who say you can’t be a Christian and gay.
“That’s there problem, not mine, I never felt that” he asserts.”And I don’t think you can read the New Testament – especially St. John, which is about the centrality of love and compassion – and feel that.”
Meaning his faith must be helping him through this current crisis?
“Greatly. I don’t think I could have survived without it. ”

David Norris concludes by claiming that throughout this crisis “many people have told me I’m too trusting and too innocent” but if he is then this, Norris hopes, is something that will never change.
“I hope I don’t lose it, however painful things are” he says.”I would hate to become a crabbed, suspicious, bitter person. And if the price for retaining my innocence, in this sense, is that sometimes I am misunderstood, I will pay that price.”
Copyright: Joe Jackson