Difficult questions to answer

Soul Winner · 23-05-2011 12:59PM

anymore wrote: »

How can the Holy Spirit be a person ? Doesnt make sense...

You'd have to define what a person is to be able to answer that. What is a person? What is personality? Personalities are like opinions, everyone has one, but like opinions they are immaterial realities that exist in time but not in space. Spirits are just the same. When someone dies they leave behind their fleshly body. So what is it that we miss when someone dies? We miss the person. So I'm not sure how you can be confused about a Spirit being a person, they are one and the same thing when you think about it.

dead one · 23-05-2011 12:59PM

PDN wrote: »

I already addressed this in my last post where I explained the concept of kenosis. You know, there's not much point in asking questions if you aren't going to bother reading the answers.

Right!!!..

While God the Son lived on earth during the Incarnation He voluntarily limited His divine powers in order to live as a human. This is the theological concept called kenosis (Greek for emptiness). So, for example, between His conception in the womb of Mary until His ascension to the Father's right hand 40 days after the Resurrection, Jesus was not omnipresent. He voluntarily submitted to a role that entailed being only in one place at one time. The Bible indicates that He similarly voluntarily limited His divine knowledge.

Does this concept particularly apply to Jesus.... or it can be applied to anyone..

self-emptying' of one's own will and becoming entirely receptive to God and His perfect will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis#Kenosis_in_Christology

PDN wrote: »

In my last post I made clear what I mean by 'image' - that man is created with a spirit.

God is Spirit. Spirits don't have noses.

God is Spirit........ What is difference between Spirit of God and Holly Spirit...i mean both are same or different......Please clear...
DOES GOD HAVE FEET?

The LORD is slow to anger but great in power;
the LORD will not leave the guilty unpunished.
His way is in the whirlwind and the storm,
and clouds are the dust of his feet.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Nahum%201:3&version=NIV

PDN wrote: »

I'm sorry. What you've said there doesn't actually make much sense in English, so I don't know what your question is.

I am saying you are not understanding.....If Jesus (Son of God) is omniscient.... what you will say about this verse which shows only Father is all knowing not the son...

32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...32&version=NIV

This is

Jesus, as God the Son, is equal with the Father (as Paul wrote to the Phillipians He thought it not robbery to be equal with God). But He willingly lived His life on earth as a servant. Servanthood, as it is taught in the New Testament, is not a sign of inferiority, but rather as a way of loving others (so Jesus, although clearly superior to the disciples, washed their feet).

Right now i am understanding:)

Quo Vadis · 23-05-2011 01:03PM

dead one wrote: »

Right now i am understanding:)

Just wondering, can you tell us why Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified and that someone else was crucified in his place ?

Zombrex · 23-05-2011 01:04PM

anymore wrote: »

Do you mean christians arent allowed to ask questions ?
:rolleyes:

You are allowed do anything within the realm of the charter. But you seem to be upset or annoyed that to you (and me btw) the Trinity doesn't make sense, and you seem to be telling people this as if something must be done.

If the concept of the Trinity is a problem annoying you then the solution is quite simple, if something doesn't make sense then don't accept it.

You are not forced you to be a Christian, if you don't think Christianity makes sense then leave the Christian church.

Problem solved.

PDN · 23-05-2011 01:08PM

dead one wrote: »

Right!!!..
Does this concept particularly apply to Jesus.... or it can be applied to anyone..

The concept as applied to Jesus (voluntarily limiting one's divine powers) cannot be applied to anyone else because no-one else is God incarnate in human flesh.

God is Spirit........ What is difference between Spirit of God and Holly Spirit...i mean both are same or different......Please clear...
DOES GOD HAVE FEET?

I already answered this in my previous post where I said that God uses anthropomorphic language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

I am saying you are not understanding.....If Jesus (Son of God) is omniscient.... what you will say about this verse which shows only Father is all knowing not the son...

I already answered this by referring to Christ's kenosis.

Asry · 23-05-2011 01:41PM

as for your continued confusion about whether God does or does not have feet, can I refer you to the psalm that contains the line 'the trees of the field shall clap their hands'. I'm sorry that I cannot provide the number or verse, as the computer I'm on has severe restrictions on access to websites so I just recalled it from memory but it's definitely an actual line.

As you seem to have access to biblegateway at the moment, maybe just search that line and it'll bring it up for you.

Trees don't have hands. It's a metaphor. God doesn't have hands either. References to them are also metaphors, in order to render God down to something that limited human intelligence can comprehend.

If I had my Qu'ran with me, I'm sure I could quote similar instances of this in that holy book as well. But that would be a subject for a different forum, I think.

dead one · 24-05-2011 05:36AM

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Just wondering, can you tell us why Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified and that someone else was crucified in his place ?

Simply The main reason for this "Quran" (Muslim's holly book)....According to Muslim, Jesus never died on the cross..... He didn't want to die on the cross,.....Muslims believe that Jesus was sentenced to death but he never died on cross....God raised him up Unto Himself.....The Quran rejects this idea, and claims that it is a false one. Jesus never died on the cross, nor he ever died for anyone's sins. Jesus never died on the cross, nor he ever died for anyone's sins...... Jesus never died on the cross, nor he ever died for anyone's sins. If you are interested then you can start a new thread in Islam foram.... There, i will provide you every detail..... As this is Christian foram So i respect their' belief

dead one · 24-05-2011 06:03AM

Asry wrote: »

as for your continued confusion about whether God does or does not have feet, can I refer you to the psalm that contains the line 'the trees of the field shall clap their hands'. I'm sorry that I cannot provide the number or verse, as the computer I'm on has severe restrictions on access to websites so I just recalled it from memory but it's definitely an actual line. As you seem to have access to biblegateway at the moment, maybe just search that line and it'll bring it up for you.

Are you talking about This verse:

12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2055:12&version=NIV

Asry wrote: »

Trees don't have hands. It's a metaphor. God doesn't have hands either. References to them are also metaphors, in order to render God down to something that limited human intelligence can comprehend.

Yes i agree... But one God= Three divine Persons........
But the confusion is there are lot of clues in bible which show divinity only belongs to father..... See here is another example

36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026:36-44&version=NIV

The translator should use WISH instead of WILL." if Jesus being the Creator of the Universe..... See the verse clearly shows Jesus had no divine will.... or clear me if i were wrong....

dead one · 24-05-2011 06:07AM

PDN wrote: »

I already answered this in my previous post where I said that God uses anthropomorphic language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

In religion and mythology, anthropomorphism refers to the perception of a divine being or beings in human form, or the recognition of human qualities in these beings. Many mythologies are concerned with anthropomorphic deities who express human characteristics such as jealousy, hatred, or love. The Greek gods, such as Zeus and Apollo, were often depicted in human form exhibiting human traits. Anthropomorphism in this case is referred to as anthropotheism.[6]

Is Christianity inspired by mythology?......

PDN · 24-05-2011 07:55AM

dead one wrote: »

Is Christianity inspired by mythology?......

No, of course it isn't. If your English was better you would understand that the passage you've quoted does not even suggest such a thing.

In the Quran you find language used in the same way. It refers to Allah sitting on a throne.

So, dead one, do you believe that, in order to sit on a throne, Allah has literal buttocks?

dead one · 24-05-2011 08:14AM

PDN wrote: »

No, of course it isn't. If your English was better you would understand that the passage you've quoted does not even suggest such a thing.

i can understand English better...see
The Greek gods, such as Zeus and Apollo, were often depicted in human form exhibiting human traits. Anthropomorphism in this case is referred to as anthropotheism...... Isn't it mythology in my passage..... or do you believe Zeus and Apollo real?

See also Anthropomorphic are very common in fairy tales.

Anthropomorphic motifs have been common in fairy tales from the earliest ancient examples set in a mythological context to the great collections of the Brothers Grimm and Perrault. The Tale of Two Brothers (Egypt, 13th century BC) features several talking cows and in Cupid and Psyche (Rome, 2nd century AD) Zephyrus, the west wind, carries Psyche away. Later an ant feels sorry for her and helps her in her quest. Characters from the story Alice in Wonderland and Toy Story are great examples of Anthropomorphism.

PDN wrote: »

In the Quran you find language used in the same way. It refers to Allah sitting on a throne.

I have no clues what you are talking about..... Please provide reference..

PDN wrote: »

So, dead one, do you believe that, in order to sit on a throne, Allah has literal buttocks?

Quran cleary says There is nothing like God in the whole universe.... but according to bible God= Three divine person..... and some passage suggest God has made man his own image... Quran clearly say God has no image....

PDN · 24-05-2011 09:14AM

dead one wrote: »

i can understand English better...see
The Greek gods, such as Zeus and Apollo, were often depicted in human form exhibiting human traits. Anthropomorphism in this case is referred to as anthropotheism...... Isn't it mythology in my passage..... or do you believe Zeus and Apollo real?

See also Anthropomorphic are very common in fairy tales.

No, unfortunately you don't appear to be able to understand English better. The word 'and' is a conjunction that joins two different things together. So, for example, if I say "Watermelons and grass are green" then that does not mean that watermelons are the same as grass. Nor does it mean watermelons are inspired by grass. It means that watermelons and grass are two different things that are grouped together simply because they share a common feature (being green).

So, when wikipedia refers to "religion and mythology" it is not saying that religion is the same as mythology, or indeed that religion is inspired by mythology. It is saying that religion (all religion, Islamic as well as Christian) shares with mythology one feature - that of using anthropomorphic language.

Look, I really am trying not to be unkind here, and it's not your fault that English is not your first language, but this is very basic use of English language such as we would expect a young child to understand. But if you have trouble understanding basic English then I don't see how you are going to engage profitably in theological discussions in this language.

dead one · 24-05-2011 09:28AM

PDN wrote: »

No, unfortunately you don't appear to be able to understand English better. ......

PDN, I am talking in context of Anthropomorphism.... See you are blaming my English to prove your point......

Anthropomorphism of God is rejected by Judaism and Islam, which both believe that God is beyond human limits of physical comprehension. Judaism's rejection grew during the Hasmonean period (circa 300 BC) due to Greek philosophy becoming incorporated in Jewish belief.[1] Judaism's rejection grew further following the Muslim Renaissance (10 century AD) later codified in 13 principles of Jewish faith authored by Maimonides in the 12th Century.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropotheism

Islam and Judasim doesn't support Anthropomorphism of God.....

So, when wikipedia refers to "religion and mythology" it is not saying that religion is the same as mythology, or indeed that religion is inspired by mythology. It is saying that religion (all religion, Islamic as well as Christian) shares with mythology one feature - that of using anthropomorphic language.

Your quote isn't making any sense .... So when wikipedia refers to "religion and mythology" it doesn't include Islam or Judasim.... It means selected religion which are inspired by mythology..... like hindsium etc.... You will find a lot of mythologies in Hinduism......

Omentum · 24-05-2011 09:42AM

Mind Body Soul. The holy trinity.

Together they are "god"

Asry · 24-05-2011 09:46AM

dead one wrote: »

Your quote isn't making any sense .... So when wikipedia refers to "religion and mythology" it doesn't include Islam or Judasim.... It means selected religion which are inspired by mythology..... like hindsium etc.... You will find a lot of mythologies in Hinduism......

good morning

I feel I can pipe up for Judaism here a bit. My father's family are Jewish. I'm not saying I'm any kind of authority on the subject, but you pick up some things here and there, and there have been some interesting debates around the dinner table. But I think that, wikipedia aside, there are myths and legends referenced in Judaism as regards the language you're talking about. As far as I'm aware, the Jewish faith sees no image of God either, like Islam. But yet in their holy books (some of which you can read as contained in the Old Testament, for example) do use this form of language. You know?

Asry · 24-05-2011 09:51AM

Actually, I've just read that wikipedia article about religion and mythology to see if I was spouting off about rubbish without having anything to back up my claims (as I usually do

...this is what a degree in English does for you; you can talk about any subject for hours and sound like you know what you're on about

), and it does, in fact, reference Judaism (thank god, I'm not pulling stuff out of the air)...

Judaism

Some Jewish scholars, including Dov Noy, a professor of folklore at Hebrew University and founder of the Israel Folktale Archives, and Howard Schwartz, Jewish anthologist and English professor at the University of Missouri – St. Louis, have discussed traditional Jewish stories as "mythology".[33]

Schwarz authored the book Tree of Souls: The Mythology of Judaism. It consists of myths and belief statements excerpted from—and, in some cases, synthesized from a number of excerpts from—both Biblical and non-Biblical Jewish texts. According to Schwartz, the Jewish people continue to elaborate on, and compose additions to, their traditional mythology.[34] In the book's introduction, Schwartz states that the word "myth", as used in the book, "is not offered to mean something that is not true, as in the current popular usage".[16]

dead one · 24-05-2011 10:42AM

Asry wrote: »

good morning

Thank you;)

Asry wrote: »

I feel I can pipe up for Judaism here a bit. My father's family are Jewish. But I think that, wikipedia aside, there are myths and legends referenced in Judaism as regards the language you're talking about. As far as I'm aware, the Jewish faith sees no image of God either, like Islam. But yet in their holy books (some of which you can read as contained in the Old Testament, for example) do use this form of language. You know?

Yes i know it.........

8 “‘How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%208:8&version=NIV

PDN · 24-05-2011 10:53AM

dead one wrote: »

Islam and Judasim doesn't support Anthropomorphism of God.....

Really? So let's look at Surat al-Fath 48:10

"Verily those who swear allegiance to thee indeed swear allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands"

According to the Quran Allah has a hand. This can be interpreted in one of two ways:
a) This is a literal hand, in which case Allah has a physical body.
b) This is symbolic language, using human terms to speak of Allah (which is an anthropomorphism).

So which is it? Does Allah have a literal physical body, or does Islam use anthropomorphism?

dead one · 24-05-2011 11:44AM

PDN wrote: »

Really? So let's look at Surat al-Fath 48:10
"Verily those who swear allegiance to thee indeed swear allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands"

Let's Look at Surat Ash-Shūraá 42:11
........ There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.... Which clearly shows God has no hands because many thing in the universe have hands and feet...
Let see the quote again

In religion and mythology, anthropomorphism refers to the perception of a divine being or beings in human form, or the recognition of human qualities in these beings. Many mythologies are concerned with anthropomorphic deities who express human characteristics such as jealousy, hatred, or love.

See God doesn't have human qualities..... .. In this sense Islam doesn't support anthropomorphism........... Jesus as son of God it is pure anthropomorphism ....

PDN wrote: »

.
b) This is symbolic language, using human terms to speak of Allah (which is an anthropomorphism).

God uses the symbolic language but it doesn't mean God has hands ..... or the God has hands.... But anthropomorphism attributes such things as hands and eyes to God....

Numerous sects throughout history have been called anthropomorphites attributing such things as hands and eyes to God, including a sect in Egypt in the 4th century, and a 10th-century sect, who literally interpreted Genesis 1:27: "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them"

In this sense Islam doesn't anthropomorphism.... Right!!!!....

PDN wrote: »

So which is it? Does Allah have a literal physical body, or does Islam use anthropomorphism?

I hope, i have made the point.........If you are taking anthropomorphism as symbolic langauge then i have no problem with it.....:) thanks

Fanny Cradock · 24-05-2011 11:51AM

dead one wrote: »

If you are taking anthropomorphism as symbolic langauge then i have no problem with it.....:) thanks

But that is exactly what PDN has been saying all along.

hivizman · 24-05-2011 01:24PM

Over the centuries, there have been three main ways of interpreting references in the Qur'an and in prophetic traditions that appear to attribute physical human characteristics, such as hands, face or feet, or human behaviours such as anger or forgetting, to Allah.

The first of these, tashbih, can be viewed as "anthropomorphic literalism". Hence, if the Qur'an says that Allah has hands, then Allah is mentally pictured as having hands like humans do. This interpretive approach would not be considered valid by mainstream Muslims, given the many verses in the Qur'an that state that Allah is transcendent and incomparable with any part of Allah's creation.

The second, ta'wil, is figurative interpretation. For all of the problematic verses, interpretations that read the apparent human attributes in a metaphorical sense can be traced back to the early years of Islam. For example, the verse in Surat al-Fath (48:10) referred to by PDN, which mentions "yadul-lahi" (the Hand of Allah) as being over the hands who pledge allegiance to Muhammad. This was interpreted as signifying the fact that those who pledged allegiance to Muhammad were thereby pledging allegiance to Allah. Thus, breaking the pledge of allegiance would not be merely a secular act, but would mean breaking faith with Allah. It was a widely-used figure of speech in classical Arabic to say "the hand of" someone when referring to someone's powers and strength.

The third approach, tafwid, rejects figurative interpretations but at the same time denies anthromorphism. Here, Muslims say that there are certain verses in the Qur'an that are true, but we cannot probe into how they are true. For example, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, the founder of one of the four great schools of Sunni Muslim jurisprudence, said about these verses: "We believe in them and consider them true, without 'how' and without 'meaning' (bi la kayfa wa la ma‘na)."

I guess that such Muslims would probably paraphrase Dr McCoy from Star Trek if asked about the Hand of Allah: "It's a hand, Jim, but not as we know it."

For further reading, see the article Literalism and the Attributes of Allah by Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

PDN · 24-05-2011 02:39PM

dead one wrote: »

See God doesn't have human qualities..... .. In this sense Islam doesn't support anthropomorphism........... Jesus as son of God it is pure anthropomorphism ....

No it isn't, it is Incarnation. God the Son existed from all eternity as Spirit, but took on human flesh to fulfil His mission of redemption.

God uses the symbolic language but it doesn't mean God has hands ..... or the God has hands.... But anthropomorphism attributes such things as hands and eyes to God....

No it doesn't. Anthropormorphic language means that we use human terms to speak of God, but that God does not possess hands, feet etc. This is what we've been telling you all along.

In this sense Islam doesn't anthropomorphism.... Right!!!!....

And neither does Christianity.

tenchi-fan · 25-05-2011 01:22AM

Omentum wrote: »

Mind Body Soul. The holy trinity.

Together they are "god"

Not in Christianity though!

Onesimus · 25-05-2011 01:32AM

dead one wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqm7KJ3E_po

I hope christian friends will clear me about these question.....

Buy a catechism of the Catholic Church.

It will teach you the Christian doctrine upon the trinity better than any of us. Pop in to your local veritas and get one. 7 -15 euro and will answer all your questions.

alternatively you could google the catechism online and view the teaching that way for free.

dead one · 25-05-2011 06:39AM

PDN wrote: »

No it isn't, it is Incarnation. God the Son existed from all eternity as Spirit, but took on human flesh to fulfil His mission of redemption.

If you go in the detail of anthropomorphism..... You will see this Incarnation as anthropomorphism..... Reason is simple...Christianity brought the notion of anthropomorphism to maturity by insisting not only that God assumed a human form........ but also that Jesus Christ was both a fully human person as well as fully divine....Because Christianity incorporates humanity into the very nature of divinity.... Right!!!!

PDN wrote: »

No it doesn't. Anthropormorphic language means that we use human terms to speak of God, but that God does not possess hands, feet etc. This is what we've been telling you all along.

Why you don't call it as symbolic language or metaphorical language... The word Anthropormorphic is confusing.... Reason is simple....
See the below quote....

Anthropomorphism (Greek anthropos,"human being"; morphe,"shape") is the attribution of human form or qualities to that which is not human. In the history of religion, anthropomorphism refers to the depiction of God in a human image, with human bodily form and emotions, such as jealousy, wrath, or love

PDN wrote: »

And neither does Christianity.

PDN.... If Christianity doesn't support anthropomorphism... The term anthropomorphism designates the view which conceives of God as having human form.....

Exodus 15:3; Numbers 12:8 (New International Version)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exod.%2015:3;%20Num.%2012:8&version=NIV

Having feet (see the verse isn't symbolic language... It is pure anthropomorphism)

Genesis 3:8 (New International Version)
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen.%203:8&version=NIV

Having mouth

8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Num.%2012:8&version=NIV

having heart

8 “How can I give you up, Ephraim?
How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I treat you like Admah?
How can I make you like Zeboyim?
My heart is changed within me;
all my compassion is aroused.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hos.%2011:8&version=NIV

PDN · 25-05-2011 08:52AM

dead one wrote: »

If you go in the detail of anthropomorphism..... You will see this Incarnation as anthropomorphism..... Reason is simple...Christianity brought the notion of anthropomorphism to maturity by insisting not only that God assumed a human form........ but also that Jesus Christ was both a fully human person as well as fully divine....Because Christianity incorporates humanity into the very nature of divinity.... Right!!!!

Wrong!!!!

Christianity teaches that God the Son became a man in order to save the human race.

Anthropomorphism, as the term is used in Christianity, refers to symbolic language used to describe the activities of a God who is Spirit.

Why you don't call it as symbolic language or metaphorical language... The word Anthropormorphic is confusing.... Reason is simple....

You can call it symbolic or metaphorical language if you want. The reason I call it anthropomophic language is because that is the correct term in Christian theology and this is the Christianity forum.

PDN.... If Christianity doesn't support anthropomorphism... The term anthropomorphism designates the view which conceives of God as having human form.....

In Christian theology the term anthropomorphism refers to using human terminology to describe the actions of a God who has no physical form. http://www.theopedia.com/Anthropomorphism

Look, if you want to use the word symbolic instead then I have no problem with that. I'm not interested in discussing the semantics of an English word with someone who doesn't speak English. So call it metaphorical language if you want.

Now, where are these difficult to answer questions, because I haven't seen any yet?

dead one · 26-05-2011 05:49AM

PDN wrote: »

Wrong!!!!
Christianity teaches that God the Son became a man in order to save the human race.

Isn't it the same Anthropomorphism.... which is used in mythology.....
see... the only problem is Christianity has just updated it and makes its own defintion....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_Greek_gods

PDN wrote: »

Anthropomorphism, as the term is used in Christianity, refers to symbolic language used to describe the activities of a God who is Spirit.

The term Anthropomorphism (not found in the Bible, derived from Greek anthropos, man, and morphe, form)... Why you are using this term in Christianity....... Isn't Christianity based on Bible...... Isn't it true Christianity has lot of terms which even jesus didn't teach..... They come from "Greek".... Like the name "Jesus Christ" wasn't his original.... It comes from Greek....

PDN wrote: »

correct term in Christian theology and this is the Christianity forum.

Is Christian theology inspired by Greek Theology

PDN wrote: »

Now, where are these difficult to answer questions, because I haven't seen any yet?

See ignoring question doesn't mean you are answering question..... see my second post no has answered that post.....
Let me sum it.... There are lot of clues in Bible which shows Jesus Can't be God...... It doesn't matter how you may interpret it...
1. If Jesus was/is GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said.....

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Jesus used "our God" mean he is creation of God and he had placed himself with Children of Isreal by using the term "our God".... Right!!!!! No one has explained why he used "our God" if He was God
======================================================
2. If Jesus was God or divine..... Why did he ask God's forgivingness

34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots....
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2023:34&version=NIV

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3. If jesus was/ is God.... Then why jesus cried

And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2015:34&version=NIV

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4. If Jesus was/is God.... then did Paul say in

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%208:6&version=NIV

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5. If Jesus was GOD, then why Jesus said

17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2020:17&version=NIV

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6. If Jesus was GOD, then why Jesus said, (the bold)

28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208:28&version=NIV

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7. If Jesus was God.... Then why Jesus said...the bold one

You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2014:28&version=NIV

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8. If Jesus was GOD, then why .....the bold one

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[a] When he had said this, he breathed his last
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2023:46&version=NIV

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9. If Jesus was God....

Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2010:18&version=NIV

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10. If Jesus was God....why he called, God alone is good..

19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

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11.If Jesus was GOD, then why Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026:39&version=NIV

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12. If Jesus was GOD.............then why he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth?

38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2018:38&version=NIV

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13.... If Jesus was God.... then why he said

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:36&version=NIV

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Please prove jesus as God in these verses by don't contradicting your own statement..... and please don't ignore any statement.... or don't wrongly interpret anything....

Christianity teaches that God the Son became a man in order to save the human race.

ISAW · 26-05-2011 09:15AM

dead one wrote: »

Isn't it the same Anthropomorphism.... which is used in mythology.....
see... the only problem is Christianity has just updated it and makes its own defintion....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_Greek_gods

all sorts of pagan religions referred to a god or gods. Because jews Christians or Muslims later refer to "God" does this mean that in using the same word they were using the same God?

The term Anthropomorphism (not found in the Bible, derived from Greek anthropos, man, and morphe, form)...

the septuagint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint is the hebrew bible written in Greek finished a least a century before Jesus lived.

Why you are using this term in Christianity....... Isn't Christianity based on Bible...... Isn't it true Christianity has lot of terms which even jesus didn't teach..... They come from "Greek".... Like the name "Jesus Christ" wasn't his original.... It comes from Greek....

most of the ancient Writings of the church are in Greek and Latin.
The Peloponesean Greek culture was the Empire of the Day eventually becoming the Roman Empire. They had logic and reason which also worked its way into both science and christianity. It was centered on Alexandria, Jerusalem and Later Constantinople while the roman one was centered in Rome.
there are also Eastern Christians which subsumed the remnants of the Persian Empire. They didnt use Greek but Hebrew Arabic Syriac and Aramaic ( the language Jesus apparently used) . Centered in Baghdad. Christianity was not limited t Greek writings but they would form a bulk of early Western christian writings.

Is Christian theology inspired by Greek Theology

Yes - by Greek Christians and learned scholars who wrote in Greek.

If Jesus was/is GOD...

Jesus was a man. Christ was the Messiah. The duality of Jesus Christ is a separate issue to the Trinity.

I suggest you read a bit about early church heresies

http://www.abelard.org/heresies/heresies.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas#Nature_of_Jesus_Christ

Thomas argued against several specific contemporary and historical theologians who held differing views about Christ. In response to Photinus, Thomas stated that Jesus was truly divine and not simply a human being. Against Nestorius, who suggested that Son of God was merely conjoined to the man Christ, Thomas argued that the fullness of God was an integral part of Christ's existence. However, countering Apollinaris' views, Thomas held that Christ had a truly human (rational) soul, as well. This produced a duality of natures in Christ. Thomas argued against Eutyches that this duality persisted after the Incarnation. Thomas stated that these two natures existed simultaneously yet distinguishably in one real human body, unlike the teachings of Manichaeus and Valentinus.[83]

In short, "Christ had a real body of the same nature of ours, a true rational soul, and, together with these, perfect Deity." Thus, there is both unity (in his one hypostasis) and diversity (in his two natures, human and Divine) in Christ.[84]

Echoing Athanasius of Alexandria, he said that "The only begotten Son of God...assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."[85]

dead one · 27-05-2011 06:52AM

ISAW wrote: »

all sorts of pagan religions referred to a god or gods. Because jews Christians or Muslims later refer to "God" does this mean that in using the same word they were using the same God?

Muslim don't believe what Christianity refers... There are interpretations in Christianity which came pagan religions....like...

Christianity teaches that God the Son became a man in order to save the human race.

I think, there are lots of statements in bible, which show..... Jesus can't be God...If he were God, he wouldn't utter such statements.... Now such types of ideas came from greek theology.... as you have stated early ... Christian theology is inspired by Greek theology... as Greek theology was inspired by ancient mythology.... So Greek Christian interpreted Christianity in terms of their customs, thoughts and ritual or whatever... Like i said, Nowhere you will find, the name "Jesus Christ". The word has Greek origin....

"Greek mythology is the body of myths and legends belonging to the ancient Greeks concerning their gods and heroes, the nature of the world, and the origins and significance of their own cult and ritual practices. They were a part of religion in ancient Greece. Modern scholars refer to the myths and study them in an attempt to throw light on the religious and political institutions of Ancient Greece, its civilization, and to gain understanding of the nature of myth-making itself.[1]
Greek mythology is embodied explicitly in a large collection of narratives and implicitly in Greek representational arts, such as vase-paintings and votive gifts. Greek myth attempts to explain the origins of the world and details the lives and adventures of a wide variety of gods, goddesses, heroes, heroines, and mythological creatures. These accounts initially were disseminated in an oral-poetic tradition; today the Greek myths are known primarily from Greek literature.[22]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_mythology

Right!!!! Now the idea, "Christianity teaches that God the Son became a man in order to save the human race" came from greek theology... because there isn't single statement in bible,which shows jesus himself claims for divinity... if there is such statement.... please specify...

ISAW wrote: »

the septuagint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint is the hebrew bible written in Greek finished a least a century before Jesus lived.

Where is that hebrew bible..... Do you have any idea?

ISAW wrote: »

most of the ancient Writings of the church are in Greek and Latin.
The Peloponesean Greek culture was the Empire of the Day eventually becoming the Roman Empire. They had logic and reason which also worked its way into both science and christianity. It was centered on Alexandria, Jerusalem and Later Constantinople while the roman one was centered in Rome.
there are also Eastern Christians which subsumed the remnants of the Persian Empire. They didnt use Greek but Hebrew Arabic Syriac and Aramaic ( the language Jesus apparently used) . Centered in Baghdad. Christianity was not limited t Greek writings but they would form a bulk of early Western christian writings.

Was Bible written by Jesus himself?
For example, the words of the author of "Luke":

3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%201:3)&version=NIV

Theophilus is the name of a person or an honorary title to whom the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles are addressed (Luke 1:3, Acts 1:1). Most scholars[verification needed] agree that both Luke and Acts were originally written in Koine Greek, and that "θεόφιλος" ("Theophilos"), as it appears therein, means friend of God[1] or (be)loved by God or loving God[2] in the Greek language. No one knows the true identity of Theophilos and there are several conjectures and traditions around an identity. In English Theophilos is also written "Theophilus", both a common name and an honorary title among the learned (academic) Romans and Jews of the era. Their life would coincide with the writing of Luke and the author of Acts, no later than 62 AD, the year of James' death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophilus_(biblical)

Also see

Coptic tradition asserts that Theophilus was a person and not an honorary title. The Coptic Church claims that the person was a Jew of Alexandria. He was likely a Roman official of some sort, because Luke referred to him as "most excellent" which was a Roman title.[citation needed]

If we use coptic tradition then Luke decided to write his Gospel because he wanted to please the person at that time Theophilus..... it mean he didn't write for God's sake....

ISAW wrote: »

Jesus was a man. Christ was the Messiah. The duality of Jesus Christ is a separate issue to the Trinity.

.....
Please clarify... are you saying, Jesus some time doesn't act as God.... why duality is separate issue from trinity?

georgieporgy · 27-05-2011 07:35AM

Dead One, the impression I am getting from your posts is that you are muslim and do not believe that the christian religion is the correct path to God. And you are trying to help us christian readers recognise we are on the wrong path.

Or is it that you are unsure of your own muslim faith , and you wish to learn more about christianity, just in case that may be the right religion?

Or perhaps you are happy with your own faith but want to know what christians believe so that by understanding each other's religion we can be better prepared to co exist in peace?

Difficult questions to answer

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