Secure gardens only?

mayvic · 13-05-2011 10:16PM #1

I recently made a post about adopting a dog. Now while I've actually decided against it for the time being (I'm young and haven't travelled as much as I'd like to) I did look long and hard at some rescues. The thing that struck me was that they all seemed to require that you had a secure garden. Can someone explain why?
Surely they're not suggesting that letting the dog run loose is a substitute for exercise or human interaction. Aren't they just putting off loads of people who could offer loving homes. I would have much preferred to adopt but wouldn't have been able to despite the fact I would never have left him in my yard unsupervised.
I'm just slightly baffled. I mean I've lived in Spain and while animal welfare there is in general pretty bad they are dog lovers. A large amount of people have happy, healthy, loved and well exercised dogs, ranging from toy dogs to mastiffs, living in their apartments. Am I the only one who thinks that this is an unnecessary rule?

EGAR · 13-05-2011 10:20PM

Not every rescue has that rule, just to clarify.

Zapperzy · 13-05-2011 10:25PM

I think what they mean is if you have a garden it has to be secure not that a garden is a must have, I think most rescues will rehome to people living in apartments (obviously taking into account the needs of individual dogs).

Chris_Heilong · 13-05-2011 11:06PM

Yeah, it is a little silly but remember, a lot of these dogs end up in the rescues because they escaped from.....An unsecured garden and they dont want it happening again.

Cat Melodeon · 13-05-2011 11:10PM

If you have a garden and let your dog into it, guaranteed you will not keep him on a lead while he is there or watch him 24/7. It's nice to be able to leave the back door open in the summer and let the dog in and out as he wishes. You can't do that with an unsecured garden, no garden at all would be better than that. Still, if you do have a garden, it's easy enough to make it safe cheaply with a roll of sheep wire.

cjf · 13-05-2011 11:19PM

I do home visits for people who have applied to adopt a dog and part of that visit is checking that if the house has a garden it is secure and safe for a dog. This is for a number of reasons the main one being to make sure the chances of the dog escaping and ending up dead on a road or stolen is greatly reduced. The majority of dogs we rehome are from pounds where they were picked up as strays most likely because they escaped from an unsecured garden. Despite every best intention unless your dog is going to be brought in and out of your garden on a lead you can't 100% be sure the dog will not stray and be lost or end up flattened on a road. All it takes is for the dog to run out after a cat and be hit by a car. If you live in an apartment you will have to bring the dog out on a lead for it to do it's business but if you have a yard you intend to let the dog off lead in then it must be secure end of story. So many dogs lost and stolen every day rescue groups are not trying to exclude people from adopting just trying to make sure the dog will be safe and secure in their new home.

DBCyc · 13-05-2011 11:31PM

They don't check whether you have a garden or what size it is, they check to make sure a dog couldn't escape from it. We got one of ours from a rescue and we only have a tiny yard.

So you can rescue a dog while living in an apartment with no problems I'd imagine as long as your outdoor space was secure.

slashygoodness · 14-05-2011 07:07AM

We had to secure our garden for our two as we only had hedges as boundary markers and did not want to use the radio fences. IT WAS NOT CHEAP. You have to make sure that the fence is at least 5-6 ft high, even if you have a tiny dog, to make sure that other dogs and 'people' can't get in to harm your dog.
And if you have a 'monkey' like one of ours

who learned to climb the wire fence...well, we had to take all the wire out... so long story short...IT IS NOT CHEAP...but worth every cent........

planetX · 14-05-2011 10:20AM

I'm wondering about this too. I want to get a dog, have a big garden, but the stone wall at the front is only about 1m high. There's no way I can fence it. The dog would never just be let out in the garden on his own, but how easy is it to train a dog not to jump the wall, even if you're standing right there?

ppink · 14-05-2011 10:48AM

what I can never understand is why people get dogs and then think about where they can leave their dog off lead. If I had one cent for each post I've read about that.....
If you have a secure garden you dont have that issue. you can play ball with your dog and give it fun time off lead without any hassle. I think that the stipulation about a secure garden kind of make you think a bit about these things as in the logics of where and how to play with the dog off lead.

Discodog · 14-05-2011 05:20PM

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

If you have a garden and let your dog into it, guaranteed you will not keep him on a lead while he is there or watch him 24/7.

Not guaranteed. My three dogs go out for a quick pee on flexis. They also get two off lead walks every day. Many people assume that leaving a dog in a garden is a substitute for proper walks which it isn't.

If you are a responsible owner your living conditions are irrelevant.

Sigma Force · 14-05-2011 07:47PM

If you have an unfenced garden and want a dog you need to fence it because dogs escape, fact. Even if you have them on leads there's always some eejit that will leave a door open or a workman or someone who will not think and leave the door open.

Some rescues put time, money and care into the animals they have, to have that all wasted and a dog put at risk of being knocked down or going missing once rehomed would be a bit mad.

The size of the garden shouldn't matter although that can depend on the breed and the households routine. E.g. if you go for mad long walks daily and have a postage stamp garden a collie might suit, but if you're a couch potato with a postage stamp sized garden a collie would be nuts.

A good rescue will be open minded as to gardens size and the lifestyle of the family but no rescue of course should put a dog at risk by homing to a house where the dog could easily escape from.

slashygoodness · 14-05-2011 08:41PM

Discodog wrote: »

If you are a responsible owner your living conditions are irrelevant.

If you are a responsible owner, you make sure your living conditions and lifestyle are relevant to your doggie companion.......

Discodog · 14-05-2011 11:46PM

Sigma Force wrote: »

Even if you have them on leads there's always some eejit that will leave a door open or a workman or someone who will not think and leave the door open.

How is this a problem if the dog is on a lead & I am on the other end of it ?.

Sigma Force wrote: »

if you go for mad long walks daily and have a postage stamp garden a collie might suit, but if you're a couch potato with a postage stamp sized garden a collie would be nuts

Every dog needs to spend some time walking other than in the garden. Dogs don't need mad walks. They need daily routine walks & not just on sunny weekends. Today was typical. Dogs being walked that you never see during the week & if it had been raining they would still of not got a walk. Worst of all dogs only being walked because the owner fancies a walk.

slashygoodness wrote: »

If you are a responsible owner, you make sure your living conditions and lifestyle are relevant to your doggie companion.......

The living conditions are relevant if the dog gets good food, warm comfortable shelter, masses of attention & regular walks. Those conditions are the same for a Great Dane as they are for a Jack Russell.

At least an apartment dweller won't be leaving the dog outside, barking & in all weathers. It will also get walked out of necessity.

I totally support homechecking but some rescues could do with being more flexible for the sake of the thousands of dogs that are being put down every year.

Coriolanus · 15-05-2011 12:32AM

Seems like a shame.

We've an acre and a half that our terrier never stirs off of. We're looking into getting a second dog so I'll know to avoid any place that stipulates that.

Whispered · 15-05-2011 12:38AM

Nevore wrote: »

We've an acre and a half that our terrier never stirs off of. We're looking into getting a second dog so I'll know to avoid any place that stipulates that.

Our neighbour was the same with their boxer - until the boxer did stir out and got hit by a car. (causing a lot of damage to the car) It's just not worth the risk.

It's one thing bringing your dog out into the garden on a lead, or supervising it in an unenclosed garden. But trusting the dog not to leave is another thing entirely. Unfortunately so many people do it. I've seen a few dogs hit by cars as they left their garden, and recently narrowly avoided a collie. All dogs who "never leave the garden" (and 2 owned by the same people who didn't learn their lesson first time and now have a third dog who "never leaves" :rolleyes:)

You probably do supervise him when he's out, but if not, please be careful. It only takes him to decide to go for a stroll once for something tragic to happen.

EDIT: My two are entirely indoor dogs and I couldn't manage without the back garden.

Discodog · 15-05-2011 12:39AM

My neighbours terrier never strayed for 8 years. He then strayed, crossed a road & was killed.

slashygoodness · 15-05-2011 06:16AM

Discodog wrote: »

My neighbours terrier never strayed for 8 years. He then strayed, crossed a road & was killed.

Ok you have now completely confused me with your answers.. I can't figure out if you are for or against the need for secure gardens.....

IMO a responsible/caring person will spend the time and money in providing a secure, healthy and loving home for the lifetime of their canine companions

If you can't do this, then you should examine your reasons for wanting to adopt, are you just looking to have your emotional needs met or are you looking for a balanced healthy relationship for many years to come

cjf · 15-05-2011 09:05AM

There are so many dogs looking for homes but this doesnt mean we should start just homing dogs to anyone who applies regardless of the type of home they can provide. In my experience having a garden is not a pre requisite for homing a dog but if there is a garden in the home it must be secure. This guideline wasn't just picked from thin air or based on an ideal it is based on experience. I have 2 dogs of my own and 1 foster dog at the min and honestly I don't think I could have these dogs if I did not have a secure garden or if I lived in an apartment. They are awake since 7 this morning and have been playin in the garden since then. My own two are big and active and need the garden as a place they let of some steam and play. Of course they will be walked today and everyday but to me nothing beats sitting in the kitchen with cup of coffee watching them run rings around each other in the garden! They can't play that way in the house or I'd have no furniture left!!

Discodog · 15-05-2011 09:11AM

slashygoodness wrote: »

Ok you have now completely confused me with your answers.. I can't figure out if you are for or against the need for secure gardens.....

Well that's because I am being a little hypocritical. I could live pretty much anywhere with my dogs & be certain that they can never stray. I live close enough to a dangerous road to be ultra careful. Even if the garden were fenced I would never trust it to be totally safe. If a dog is going to be kept outdoors or left out then of course the garden has to be secure. But I would never keep a dog outdoors.

The point that I am making is that it is possible to keep a dog in a property without a secure garden & that rescues should look at each case individually rather than following set procedures.

planetX · 15-05-2011 09:56AM

I had an 8ft walled garden which turned out not to be secure, as my large terrier could defy gravity and get over. It comes down to responsibility of the owner. There are a lot of dogs living in misery left out in secure gardens all day. I don't think it should be the deciding factor in rehoming a dog.

slashygoodness · 15-05-2011 11:51AM

planetX wrote: »

I had an 8ft walled garden which turned out not to be secure, as my large terrier could defy gravity and get over. It comes down to responsibility of the owner. There are a lot of dogs living in misery left out in secure gardens all day. I don't think it should be the deciding factor in rehoming a dog.

So true... I guess my definition of secure would be a safe place for your dog, i.e. some place they feel safe and in most cases I would say:

left alone all day does not equal feeling safe

Discodog · 15-05-2011 11:56AM

There is nothing worse that assuming that you dog is safe & discovering that it is not. A friend of mine had a spaniel that climbed up onto a bunk bed then out of a velux window. He slid down the roof & crashed onto a garden table which broke his fall. They came home & thought that they had been burgled. The claw marks on the roof gave the game away !.

Graces7 · 17-05-2011 07:56AM

Whispered wrote: »

Our neighbour was the same with their boxer - until the boxer did stir out and got hit by a car. (causing a lot of damage to the car) It's just not worth the risk.

It's one thing bringing your dog out into the garden on a lead, or supervising it in an unenclosed garden. But trusting the dog not to leave is another thing entirely. Unfortunately so many people do it. I've seen a few dogs hit by cars as they left their garden, and recently narrowly avoided a collie. All dogs who "never leave the garden" (and 2 owned by the same people who didn't learn their lesson first time and now have a third dog who "never leaves" :rolleyes:)

You probably do supervise him when he's out, but if not, please be careful. It only takes him to decide to go for a stroll once for something tragic to happen.

EDIT: My two are entirely indoor dogs and I couldn't manage without the back garden.

Exactly so. Our two are always supervised and always safely confined. We have a concrete terrace and a bit of wild land as well as the garden ( where they are not allowed and which is not secure) but still they are always accompanied when even on the terrace. Wee dog is a wall climber. The other thing re gardens is theft of course as other threads show.

We would never leave the dogs other than inside when we are out or at night.

It makes more work, but that is fine if we care.

slashygoodness · 17-05-2011 03:45PM

Same here, you can't left them out of your sight...before we removed the wire we had an 'incident'.
In the time it took me to go into the house and get a coat, dean had climbed the gate and jumped up into the front seat of the car...I came out of the house and saw someone in the car and thought '****' someone is trying to rob it, till I came closer and there she was SO happy that she had gotten into the car all by herself!!! I nearly had a heartattack! She could have run out onto the road...or worse...car is on a hill....
Anyway..guess what I spent all evening doing..yep building a tailer gate, with no wire...thankfully the 'proper' gate arrived shortly after...apparently gate building would not be a new job option for me.......

Steve30x · 20-05-2011 01:02PM

In al honesty if you want a dog and have a garden I would think that the first thing anybody would do is secure thir garden. It doesnt cost that much for sheep wire and a few steaks.

Hellrazer · 21-05-2011 09:59AM

planetX wrote: »

. I don't think it should be the deciding factor in rehoming a dog.

I agree especially if you are rehoming a dog that could be PTS.

Some rescues have in my personal opinion (and not a mod one before anyone starts) some strange rules with regards to rehoming dogs.Home visits,secure gardens,company during the day etc.

Surely the main issue is stopping dogs being PTS and not worrying whether the dog has company during the day.

lrushe · 21-05-2011 10:19AM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Surely the main issue is stopping dogs being PTS and not worrying whether the dog has company during the day.

Yeah I don't get the company during the day thing either, I don't think I've ever had a dog that's had company exclusively during the day as I've always been in either school or work. However my dogs have always been walked before being left and were with me indoors as soon as I came home, anytime I've been off work for a day or so my dogs have been asleep for the majority of the day, I can't think that me not being there has caused them any distress.

boomerang · 21-05-2011 02:33PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I agree especially if you are rehoming a dog that could be PTS.

Some rescues have in my personal opinion (and not a mod one before anyone starts) some strange rules with regards to rehoming dogs.Home visits,secure gardens,company during the day etc.

Surely the main issue is stopping dogs being PTS and not worrying whether the dog has company during the day.

I disagree. What is the point of nurturing, feeding, vaccinating, worming, defleaing and neutering a dog that's had a crap life, and possibly spending up to a thousand euro on orthopaedic surgery on dogs that have already been in RTAs, only for it to be killed on the road, stolen or wandering off from its new home? Bear in mind most dogs in pounds and shelters are there precisely because their previous owners didn't have a secure garden to keep them safe, and they strayed.

The point of a secure garden is to ensure the dog can go out for that morning piddle, or sit out on a sunny afternoon, without you having to watch him like a hawk. Most people do not have the patience or commitment to put a lead on the dog to bring him outside to go to the toilet. Few people have the luxury of monitoring their dog all day, and it's not right to leave the dog loose in an unenclosed area while you're gone to work.

The garden can be the size of a postage stamp - space is not the issue as a large garden is no substitute for a walk anyways; dogs won't utilise the garden space unless you're out there interacting with them. Plenty of people that have their house sited on a very large plot simply fence in either side of the house and the back of the house to create a secure, smaller area that's accessed through the back door or a gate at the side of the house.

To be honest the secure garden issue is not much of a problem for most people, as people mostly live in suburban semi-d's. The big problem is when someone is living on a large site in the countryside and haven't already fenced the place in for the safety of their kids.

Our rescue insists on a secure garden, and genuinely most people have no problem with it, not when we explain it's for the dog's safety and to abide by the law. We have a no-kill policy so we're happy to wait for the right home to come along. It doesn't usually take long.

When you go to huge efforts to rescue these dogs, naturally you want to find the best possible home, within reason. If you take the view that the dog having any home is good enough, well then you're just in the business of recycling dogs. That's not what rescue's about.

As for the poundies, sometimes euthanasia (which literally means a "good death) is better than the dog being constantly recycled through the pound system because it's left to wander by a succession of irresponsible owners. There simply aren't enough good homes out there for all the pound dogs.

planetX · 21-05-2011 02:41PM

boomerang wrote: »

I disagree. What is the point of nurturing, feeding, vaccinating, worming, defleaing and neutering a dog that's had a crap life, and possibly spending up to a thousand euro on orthopaedic surgery on dogs that have already been in RTAs, only for it to be killed on the road, stolen or wandering off from its new home? Bear in mind most dogs in pounds and shelters are there precisely because their previous owners didn't have a secure garden to keep them safe, and they strayed.

The point of a secure garden is to ensure the dog can go out for that morning piddle, or sit out on a sunny afternoon, without you having to watch him like a hawk. Most people do not have the patience or commitment to put a lead on the dog to bring him outside to go to the toilet. Few people have the luxury of monitoring their dog all day, and it's not right to leave the dog loose in an unenclosed area while you're gone to work.

The garden can be the size of a postage stamp - space is not the issue as a large garden is no substitute for a walk anyways; dogs won't utilise the garden space unless you're out there interacting with them. Plenty of people that have their house sited on a very large plot simply fence in either side of the house and the back of the house to create a secure, smaller area that's accessed through the back door or a gate at the side of the house.

To be honest the secure garden issue is not much of a problem for most people, as people mostly live in suburban semi-d's. The big problem is when someone is living on a large site in the countryside and haven't already fenced the place in for the safety of their kids.

Our rescue insists on a secure garden, and genuinely most people have no problem with it, not when we explain it's for the dog's safety and to abide by the law. We have a no-kill policy so we're happy to wait for the right home to come along. It doesn't usually take long. When you go to huge efforts to rescue these dogs, naturally you want to find the best possible home, within reason. If you take the view that the dog having a home and being alive is good enough, well then you're just in the business of recycling dogs. That's not what rescue's about.

As for the poundies, sometimes euthanasia (which literally means a "good death) is better than the dog being constantly recycled through the pound system because it's left to wander and gets picked up by the warden. Or it's killed on the road so another pound dog is obtained to replace it. There simply aren't enough good homes out there for all the pound dogs.

Just curious, I'm one of larg(ish) site in the countryside people - mine is fenced, except the front which is a stone wall only about 1 metre high. This is obviously not secure for a jumping dog, but would it be secure enough for a rescue? I'm looking for a pup, and would rather rescue than get one privately.

boomerang · 21-05-2011 02:55PM

It's unlikely you'd find a dog who wouldn't jump it in time. Even a Jack Russell would clear it. What some people have done is to put Coillte post and rail inside the stone wall, and tack on fencing wire. I used the green plastic coated chain link stuff, so it doesn't look bad. If you were really concerned about how it looks, you could plant a cheap evergreen hedge between the wall and the fence.

Alternatively, could you just put in a fence at either side of the house, so you're enclosing just the back area of the house? I know it'd cost a few hundred euro, but it's an investment for the lifetime of the dog, if you think of it that way. If he got the belt of a car you'd be paying at least that to reset broken bones!

Secure gardens only?

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