Orwell/IRC/Lucan/Tiernans/UCD League, Brittas, 5 May 2011

oflahero · 06-05-2011 09:33AM #1

Race reports have been all very Swords-heavy here lately, so in an attempt to redress the balance...

Very changeable weather last night for the race, which was a 2-lap handicap down the Red Lane, finishing as per usual at top-of-the-drag at the Ballysmuttan turnoff.

Numbers were a bit down on previous weeks given the greyness and showers during the day, but enough showed to make up respectable packs. Pre-race rituals included watching horses leaning over the fence to chew on people's handlebars while they were busy signing in, and seeing two Lucan lads actually taking a piss against the walls of the house on the corner. All class, boys.

Took off with semi-limit, and it was gusty going down the N81 which made for a lack of organisation up the front. Up'n'overs were pretty sporadic, and while it could've been faster, I was still feeling my climbing training from the weekend and the legs were heavy. Everyone took the corners slow as the surface was a bit greasy, not to mention the odd bit of gravel, especially the savage section of it where the road was being resurfaced (thanks to the organisers for giving us good warning about that in advance.)

A United Nations-style breakaway gave it a shot on lap 1, with one rider from each club, but the pack kept them within 15 seconds or so and they sat up when back on the N81 again.

Rumours of scratch/semi-scratch coming up fast started doing the rounds after one lap, and the ominous whoosh in the right ear finally happened on the rough stretch coming up to the bridge (~24km). The pace was ferocious. I felt bust, and riders just kept passing on the right on the drag (~28km) til I finally lost the wheels at Manor Kilbride. Stragglers strung out all over the road. Spent too much effort on the last lap trying to push on when I'd have been better off sitting up and waiting for another semi-limit group, which caught me anyway. Nothing therefore in the tank for a final sprint up the drag to the end, though I tried 'leading out' (!) velo.2010, which lasted all of 10 seconds before people started passing anyway, including a grinning DirkVoodoo who did his trademark effortless glide past manoeuvre. Great workout, although I reckon semi-limit will have to work together better to stay away longer in future, myself very much included. Thanks again to the organisers.

Stats here, missing the best part of a km at the start: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/83691324

Caroline_ie · 06-05-2011 09:43AM

I pulled over after 6km I wasn't feeling the love for racing last night and I was wrecked.

I was standing at the corner with Lumen, Montac and Sean Bracken from Usher pulled in asking for a wheel after he punctured, gave him my front wheel, he jumped in with scratch just after the bridge.

He ended up getting third place in that race ... my wheel was 1st though. I should get points for that.

doozerie · 06-05-2011 11:50AM

I got there late, and tired, and in a fit of blind optimism chose to assume that the bunch waiting to leave were Limit. They didn't look very Limit-ey though, which is hardly surprising as they were actually Scratch. ****e! It was suggested that I'd be better off trying to chase down Semi-Scratch than trying to start with Scratch, which was a bit like having to choose between being punched in the eye or kicked in the testicles.

As Semi-Scratch disappeared into the distance I headed after them, not starting well by my left shoe deciding that it wasn't on clicking-in terms with my left pedal. When I looked up from my reluctant shoe Semi-Scratch were almost out of site around the first bend in the road. In what can best be described as a victory of hopeless optimism over common sense I told myself that there was still hope and I went after them and I managed to keep them in sight for a (very!) little bit. A little over 1 mile down the road Semi-Scratch were out of sight again and Scratch went belting past (they don't half go quick, do they...).

I considered trying to tag onto the back of Scratch but found myself wondering whether that would be allowed/acceptable. I should have tried, though I can't imagine I'd have been there for long, but in the mere seconds that I was mulling this over they were already up the road. Having failed to keep Semi-Scratch in sight some particularly stupid part of my brain suggested that I fight to get up to Scratch. And to think that I used to believe that optimism was a good quality... I lost sight even of the ambulance by the time I reached the turn off the main road.

I kept going in the hope that I'd encounter stragglers from some of the other groups. A few miles in I glanced at my Garmin, which was a mistake. In the last 8 months of riding, even with a big effort, I've struggled to hit a max HR of 175 and the highest I've recorded in the last two years has been 182bpm. My average HR last night after 7 miles was 170bpm. That couldn't possibly end well, and it didn't as my legs just packed in completely as I neared the main road on lap 2. All I'd seen by then were about 3 people fixing punctures, no stragglers whatsoever. So I stopped at the end of my second lap and watched the finish of the race, and they were not far behind me at all. Very impressive riding as the speed must have been very high all the way round.

joker77 · 06-05-2011 11:59AM

Was in the Limit group again last night, the numbers were down a bit on the previous week, we headed off up the main road and things were going ok-ish with the up'n'overs - but it didn't last long before it just split out into one big line. AstraMonti was out last night, one of only about 5 or 6 of us prepared to do any work (a Tiernan's guy, guy in Columbia shorts, another couple from Orwell). There were a couple of guys who were just sitting behind, when it was their turn to go out in front they just hung back, slowed, then sat in behind someone - so the effect was constantly two lines becoming one. For f*ck sake, if you're going to wheel suck, just stay at the back and don't f*ck up the rotation at the front.

As I say - very frustrating. I tried egging people on a bit, but to no effect. Just before the start / finish line a guy in I think Lucan colours appeared up the road in front of us - joined alongside - and then proceeded to tell us to steady up and not make any breaks. Don't know who this fella was or what his game was, but needless to say I paid no heed. Maybe if at least one of the Lucan guys was doing any work I may have listened.

We got caught just coming up to the main road on the final lap, which made it all the more frustrating for me because had the group been more organised with a few more prepared to work, and the up'n'overs used properly - we may have stood a chance to stay away.

After we got passed, I just split off and went back to the car, disgusted. Had a stitch after spending a good proportion of the race out the front, was cooked and just p*ssed off in general.

I know some people are going to be hanging on (having been there myself), and just going enough to stay on the back of the group - but this was not the case. It was purely a case of conserving energy. I don't see the point - the Limit group gets caught do they think they're going to get a place with a bunch containing all 4 groups?

/rant

Lumen · 06-05-2011 12:05PM

joker77 wrote: »

only about 5 or 6 of us prepared to do any work

That's a perfect size for a break. If people aren't working just drop them.

joker77 · 06-05-2011 12:12PM

True, we tried a few times, but the hangers on wouldn't let us get away - they seemed determined to spoil

Idleater · 06-05-2011 12:15PM

joker77 wrote: »

Maybe if at least one of the Lucan guys was doing any work I may have listened.

/rant

From my comfortable perspective in the car, and my previous observances in the semi-limit groups, could I ask a similar question of the orwellers: With the amount of ye's in the groups, could you not organise a few up and overs amongst yourselves? Even basic principles of not stopping when the "head" of the 'up' stream gets to the top of the queue - i.e. the "over" part of up and over. I could see the group speeding up and slowing constantly irrespective of the hills and I can understand how frustrating this is.

In fairness, on a couple of occasions (stamullen in particular) there was an Orwell person that was very good at organising (with myself and another LCRC) the group to do up and overs with good effect despite us being in a chasing (dropped

) group.

Lumen · 06-05-2011 12:21PM

joker77 wrote: »

True, we tried a few times, but the hangers on wouldn't let us get away - they seemed determined to spoil

I am interested in the mechanics of this.

IMO, there is no "we" in the formation of a break. Every participant needs to jump hard off the bunch in a way that makes it very hard for a weaker rider to get a tow. Maximum sprint effort, up the RHS of the lane, get yourself up the road with a clear gap and see who's there. If it doesn't work, repeat. You can't just do 45kph for a few hundred metres and hope that people drop off - drafting is just too easy.

You have to make sure that the effort to jump across is so large that anyone who gets there has a vested interest in the break succeeding.

edit: check this out, from 0:05 and then at 2:00. You just have to hope that you don't have a Cancellara in the break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7xjsPqHg3o

joker77 · 06-05-2011 12:32PM

Fair enough yea, maybe we (the break) just wasn't strong enough to stay away.

Diarmuid · 06-05-2011 12:32PM

Good race. Jumped on the decisive break with 4 others that went with 7k to go. Drilled it for 10mins and then got second in the sprint. I was very cagey in the run up to the sprint, Dylan was a few meters up the road while I was refusing to come around the Tiernan's lad. I left my sprint too late and couldn't close the gap to first place before the line.

JacksonHeightsOwn · 06-05-2011 12:42PM

joker77 wrote: »

Was in the Limit group again last night, the numbers were down a bit on the previous week, we headed off up the main road and things were going ok-ish with the up'n'overs - but it didn't last long before it just split out into one big line. AstraMonti was out last night, one of only about 5 or 6 of us prepared to do any work (a Tiernan's guy, guy in Columbia shorts, another couple from Orwell). There were a couple of guys who were just sitting behind, when it was their turn to go out in front they just hung back, slowed, then sat in behind someone - so the effect was constantly two lines becoming one. For f*ck sake, if you're going to wheel suck, just stay at the back and don't f*ck up the rotation at the front.

As I say - very frustrating. I tried egging people on a bit, but to no effect. Just before the start / finish line a guy in I think Lucan colours appeared up the road in front of us - joined alongside - and then proceeded to tell us to steady up and not make any breaks. Don't know who this fella was or what his game was, but needless to say I paid no heed. Maybe if at least one of the Lucan guys was doing any work I may have listened.

We got caught just coming up to the main road on the final lap, which made it all the more frustrating for me because had the group been more organised with a few more prepared to work, and the up'n'overs used properly - we may have stood a chance to stay away.

After we got passed, I just split off and went back to the car, disgusted. Had a stitch after spending a good proportion of the race out the front, was cooked and just p*ssed off in general.

I know some people are going to be hanging on (having been there myself), and just going enough to stay on the back of the group - but this was not the case. It was purely a case of conserving energy. I don't see the point - the Limit group gets caught do they think they're going to get a place with a bunch containing all 4 groups?

/rant

What kinda pace would the limit group be averaging Joker?

I'm contemplating chancing my arm with a limit race in the few weeks, but the thoughts of getting dropped by some 15 year old girl really scares me

AstraMonti · 06-05-2011 12:46PM

Well it was great for me. It was my first race ever and I came in with my mind to hang on as best as possible. I tried to do my best when was my turn in front but I had no experience of the course neither any strategy that we should have followed. Before the bridge in the first lap I was in front so I had to ask if we should go left

I think we were going preety well up until the point the scratch caught us but it came to me as a suprise when they started passing by and by the second Tom shouted to me to get on his wheel it was already too late to do anything, and I am not sure I could hang on there for a long time anyway, these guys were going fast. Anyway I am happy, and I finished feeling strong apart from the groin strain that's been bothering me the last week. Thanks to all that helped me yesterday, the guys that we were working today were sound! I didn't manage to get the name of the Orwell guy in front, I think he was on a Colagno and with a light beard.

Here are my stats: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/83697908

Onto the next week then

joker77 · 06-05-2011 12:58PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

What kinda pace would the limit group be averaging Joker?

I'm contemplating chancing my arm with a limit race in the few weeks, but the thoughts of getting dropped by some 15 year old girl really scares me

Maybe 34-36kms? Someone with a fancier computer confirm?

oflahero · 06-05-2011 01:45PM

AstraMonti wrote: »

I didn't manage to get the name of the Orwell guy in front, I think he was on a Colagno and with a light beard.

Sounds like Peter Killeen, fresh from busting himself down in Kanturk last weekend, and a spinning class inbetween...

velo.2010 · 06-05-2011 02:55PM

Fair play to Diarmiud again for scoring more points. That was a top group to get into.

Mixed night for me. Able to hang with the scratchers when they came through without too much trouble. I was following The Crunch's wheel then bang, I lost the back wheel on the gravel as we started heading up to the N81. I then made a rookie mistake of shifting down to the small ring to get control. That made it worse. When I found a suitible gear they were gone.

The prat in me came out at the end when I went looking for points(palm to face) after I 'won' the mini semi-limit sprint. It was a handicap of course and we came in well behind!:o

niceonetom · 06-05-2011 04:00PM

Interesting and slightly frustrating race for me. It was my first time going off with Scrach in a pursuit, and it's fairly daunting to be standing at the start watching the other groups go off in succession with what seems like HUGE handicaps (adrenalin fuelled time dilation I think). There was about 15 or so in our groups last night and looking around I felt a bit out-gunned. What the arse am I doing surrounded by these rás men? I've made a huge mistake.

I'm used to there being a fair amount of jocular banter on the start line. The scratchers are quiet, calm even. The nervousness that underlies all that laughing and joking in the other groups as they form up to be released isn't there in scratch. They just wait. And then they go.

Two line. Everyone rides. Everyone rides hard. Aside from the nearly whispered calls of "last-man" on the first couple of rotations there is no talking at all yet alone the kind of shouting I'm used to. Calm it may be, but it not sedate. Avg for the first lap was 42.0 kph and it felt fast. The rotation was smooth and even though, so some of that speed comes from good technique as well as simple power. The rotation did breakdown once or twice, but it got going again and there are enough strong guys there who see these races as glorified training so they've little interest in shirking.

Much to my surprise, I felt good. My HR was never far from threshold but I wasn't having to dig too deep to ride through.

We caught the other groups sooner that I'd expected and then on the third lap, the racing began. The were breaks and half breaks but the one that went started as a counter attack on the approach to the turn off the N81. I'd worked too hard on the main road and was seeking shelter a little further back in the bunch (only 10 or 15 places but that's too much sometimes) when we made the turn off. A group of about 4 had a gap and there were a few trying to get across. I know my range for bridging isn't great and that attempting it alone would be silly. I hope the bunch would respond and there'd still be some racing for the rest of us but by the time we got to the bridge there wasn't enough left for the bunch to ride for. That didn't stop the shouting from the sprinters a few rows back mind you.

We kept the pace up but weren't getting anything back in the last couple of km. I always like my legs to be the limiter in a race, but in this one my head was the issue.

Well done to those in the break. It was a very good move.

@Astra - Well done dude. It's good to see a guy enjoying his first race so much. I have no doubt you'll enjoy it even more as you get some experience in it and get to know the tactics a bit. I don't know if you plan on doing some A4 racing this year, but if you do then try to use the league as training for that - don't take it too seriously, just ride hard and be adventurous with your tactics. You learn nothing by sitting in (not that I think that's your style at all btw.) and it doesn't make you stronger the way riding hard does.

@doozerie - I saw you chasing after the SS. I thought that was brave move and you'd be bloody strong to do it. They had at least a minute on you. You would, I think have been better trying to hang on the bakc of scratch. If you'd made it known that you had missed your group we wouldn't have made you ride through either.

@joker77 - all you can do is ride your own race. The other people in your group (any group) don't owe it to you to ride, but it is in their own self-interest to do so if they can. A group can benefit hugely from one rider who's prepared to be an asshole komandant and tell people to ride through and hard. Loudly reminding them that their only chance is not to get caught might motivate a few and you only need a few to bring the pace up. Even if it doesn't, don't end your race when the catch is made. Really that's when the race begins. You learn more from riding with stronger lads and holding wheels is as necessary a skill as drilling the pace. Also, try to have fun.

joker77 · 06-05-2011 04:18PM

niceonetom wrote: »

@joker77 - all you can do is ride your own race. The other people in your group (any group) don't owe it to you to ride, but it is in their own self-interest to do so if they can. A group can benefit hugely from one rider who's prepared to be an asshole komandant and tell people to ride through and hard. Loudly reminding them that their only chance is not to get caught might motivate a few and you only need a few to bring the pace up. Even if it doesn't, don't end your race when the catch is made. Really that's when the race begins. You learn more from riding with stronger lads and holding wheels is as necessary a skill as drilling the pace. Also, try to have fun.

Ah I know, it was only my fourth race and I shouldn't be letting it get to me. It was different in the DMS ones though - you know there are people doing no work, but it didn't bother me as it's a cute way to get around and still have something left for the sprint (I'd love to be able to do that, just not able to - something stupid in my makeup). In the handicap though it's pointless.

I had a stitch at the end from my exertions, so that added to me not finishing, when the big group went past it just sucked the last bit of life out. Last week when Semi-Limit went past I really enjoyed getting into that bunch and getting involved, suppose it was the difference in pace last night - hard to go from 34/35km to 42... bit of a step up, definitely seeing I was cooked anyway.

oflahero · 06-05-2011 04:25PM

As luck would have it, there must've been someone around with a video camera last night on the N81 just when joker77 packed it in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIW1MAvyPD4

100Suns · 06-05-2011 05:01PM

Intersting perspective from niceonetom on riding scratch. I went off with semi-scratch last night (carrying an injury;)) to Tom's justified indignation. I had the opposite experience to Tom, which surprised me. Only a few were working at the front, particularly into the wind. The changes in pace at the front were quite noticeable-when some riders got to the front they didn't maintain the pace and when they pulled over they seemed to sit up. Smooth it wasn't. If more semi-scratch worked hard together in a pace line there are enough strong riders in there to have a good chance of staying away from scratch. Scratch approach it on the basis that they work as one and the race starts when they catch semi-scratch.

If semi-scratch adopted the same mentality of riding together for long enough to catch the handicap groups and hold a decent gap to scratch, then let the racing begin. Alternatively, if 8 or 10 strong riders who are doing all the work took the initiative and dropped the sandbagging bunch early on, they would have a good chance.

When I saw who went up the road the last time up the main road, I knew they would stay away if it wasn't closed down before the turn. It was surprising how few of the remaining bunch were prepared to chase it down. niceonetom did a turn or two on the front but a few riders seemed to be either not able to get up in the short pace line or were blocking for their teamates up the road (which they probably didn't need).

Well done to Diarmuid and everyone who scored points - well earned in a shrewd move. Can't wait for the carnage next week at the hill climb

Sr. Assumpta · 06-05-2011 09:41PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

What kinda pace would the limit group be averaging Joker?
I'm contemplating chancing my arm with a limit race in the few weeks, but the thoughts of getting dropped by some 15 year old girl really scares me

Never mind being dropped by her, how would you get her to go out with you in the first place????

morana · 07-05-2011 08:53AM

its great to read the league race reports and nice to see it from the perspective of different riders. When I talk about a race I ALWAYS do everything correct

, dont we all!

Maybe when people are in groups they actually cant work! Added to the fact that the stronger riders in the group want to push on at their pace you cant expect them to ride for 10 mins and the go south can you?

I think its ultra important just to avoid stalls in the group if its only 3or 4 from 15 then just keep it going and then try jump the spanners at the end or go really hard into at the hard bits.

We (Ravens) had our club league on Thursday night. 6 of us (1 Sword rider) 64 km.

cyco · 11-05-2011 01:11PM

Thursday was my first outing at SS (first season on the bike) it was a huge jump in pace from SL but I'm putting that down to the handicap. I still managed to contribute my fair share to the chase.
When the break got away only 2 or 3 of us were working to bring it back. I passed a few lads in the last 500 and caught one guy on the line. I only counted 5 lads up the road ahead of me but another UCD lad at the finish said they didn't give me the place ahead of the lad half a wheel behind me... If it's the difference between 7th and 8th I don't mind but I need all the points I can get! especially having not been allowed race limit in my first season...

Orwell/IRC/Lucan/Tiernans/UCD League, Brittas, 5 May 2011

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