live backing tracks - cop out or "does'nt bother me"?

stateofflux · 01-05-2011 11:40PM #1

just watching a rush documentary and geddy lee was discussing the lengths he went to to recreate their songs in a live dynamic without the use of backing tracks...via midi foot triggers etc and i have to say i found this worthy of respect...

ive been seeing a lot of indie & rock bands 'live' recently and noticed a lot of pre recorded stuff going on in the background, which left me feeling a bit cheated as at what point are they even playing live at all?

wondering what your opinions are about this?
mainly in the context of touring live bands (obviously rap / hip hop etc wouldnt fall into this catagory as much)

Neurojazz · 02-05-2011 07:31AM

I fully expect producers to facepalm, complain and rage.

However the average punter wouldn't give a flying f**k.

I did one gig in Dublin (the Pod) with full gear/keyboards (and another bloke) on a stage in full view of the crowd - full electronic live PA.

After the gig was finished... a girl right at front said 'can ye bring yer decks to party after?' - I mean, didn't anyone even see we were playing keyboards?

When I was younger and saw bands playing to a backing - and didn't think it had anything to do with respect - was more worried about my beer and getting laid.

rcaz · 02-05-2011 02:33PM

I don't think it's a cop out, but I don't think it's the best way to do it either...

I used to be an obsessive Flaming Lips fan, and they use backing tracks a lot for the mid-period, huge arrangement stuff. What alternatives are there? Touring with an orchestra would be great... But that probably isn't an option. Something like a MIDI trigger to control loops or trigger chords would work but for something like a sampled orchestra, maybe it wouldn't sound very good. So I guess they decided that a backing track was the only way to go? I don't like how it takes away from the proper live-ness of the gig, but then I don't want to go listen to a band jam (outside of improvised music...).

What would I prefer? Any instrument you can't sequence and trigger in real time, get someone to play it, any instrument you can control with a computer or sequencer or something, figure that out. Ideally without a click track, but there are lot of things you can't do without a click track that sound great (playing to a sequenced drum machine or synthesiser or something).

I love computer environments like Pure Data and SuperCollider and things that let you do whatever you want... Jonny Greenwood uses Max/MSP pretty well in Radiohead's live version of 15 Step;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWVqeH0Dja4

There's a Max/MSP patch with drum patterns sequenced, and Jonny uses a MIDI foot controller to trigger patterns and jump between them live. I guess The Flaming Lips would have just recorded a song's-worth of drums onto a tape (I think their drummer has a DAT or VCR or something behind him...).

Quiggers · 02-05-2011 04:30PM

depends on the material, if its a fully orcastrated piece and a four piece band on stage then backing tracks are cool, better than some bad midi string pads,
but when they're used for simple parts just so as to not hire a bass player then i think they're wrong, also chart divas, adlibbing over a main vocal track at live gigs is poor.
Its where they go from a tool to a crutch, live music should be well live, within reason.

dav nagle · 02-05-2011 06:04PM

A combination of the two is best, i.e. pre recorded drums and live synth and keys imo

madtheory · 02-05-2011 06:05PM

Yes, the punter won't give a **** as long as there is a buzz, so you do whatever it takes to create a buzz. If it's a long tour you'd better make it interesting for yourself, or you'll hate it. I agree with dav about using a mixture, depending on the complexity of the arrangement. But there would always be something played live, not just arssing around with Ableton or WHY.

So yes, it depends on the material.

I saw the Flaming Lips at the Olympia doing The Soft Bulletin with a video cassette for each song. Hi fi VHS backing track SVHS for the visuals including drums. Live piano, bass, vocals and some guitar. It was amazing.

Orbital always sequence live, and they always lift the roof off the place.

Boyzone had a live band but only for show; mostly they used a backing track with a real drummer. Plus lots of dancers and changing sets to distract you from their crapness.

Sugababes- entirely live, and brilliant.

Aphex Twin, Groove Armada- DJ sets, disappointing.

Housemartins- entirely live and boringly soporific.

Neyo- a lot of the synth parts done with 3 piece brass, and it rocked. He had a big band, all amazing musicians, some tracks with a sequenced part but mostly live playing.

So I have no problem with it when considered out of context, but context is everything.

PaulBrewer · 02-05-2011 06:37PM

I used to have a 3 piece pub band in the 90s. Drums, Singer, Guitar.

We used an Akai DR16 as a tracks machine - I recorded all the bass live into it.
We also used a few backing synths and perc. (Think Garbage and The Cardigans etc)

I always found that once you were actually playing no one gave a toss - so on the Garbage song 'Stupid Girl' for example I'd double up on guitar with the bass part in the verse - rather than stand there playing nothing - and emphasizing that it was the machine playing back bass (even though that was recorded me)

I think once you don't let the machine 'do the work' no one gives phuck.

PMI · 03-05-2011 02:46PM

There is a huge stigma about bands using tracks live.

I have used tracks in the past in mid 90's cover scene good ol' MC50 days

but wouldnt use them in my current setup.

We (current band) do get accussed of using tracks as most people dont understand the terms SAMPLE / LOOP for a few bars.... also the laptop thing doesnt help we have 3 laptops now on stage so I really cant blame um for accusing us.

Linkin Park etc.. track alot a hahn cant play everything on a few pads

I think its all about moderation if I heard a guitar or vocal or something I would be bothered but as a rule Im just happy to see people trying to embrace change and not just banging out some old classic rock tune and expect to gig

SeanHurley · 03-05-2011 03:30PM

All of last year we gigged with backing tracks for strings and synths with all guitars, bass, brums and vocals played live. Most people didn't seem to notice that there we were backing track let alone care. However, it did erode away us as a band. Gigs became boring to us as we could never break out and do something spontaneos, also the drummer was going to have an aneurism playing to a click every night.

It did sound good tho, and I don't think it is cheating, live gigs are about entertainment, do people dig it etc. if a backing track adds to the performace that is all that really matters. I do draw the line when its a milli vanilli job tho, backing tracks should augment not replace.

krd · 04-05-2011 07:50PM

Neurojazz wrote: »

I fully expect producers to facepalm, complain and rage.

However the average punter wouldn't give a flying f**k.

The average punter wouldn't really know what's going on. It really depends on the music. Some music benefits by being perfectly on the beat - other music benefits by being loser.

U2 use a lot of midi - but they have a guy under the stage - a Japanese guy, he runs the midi stuff and taps in time. I read a piece years ago where the journalist went under the stage with him. He had two different midi sequencers. And he'd make the stuff follow the band and watch out for when they would extend bits.

I haven't been interest in what U2 do in years, but I know they used to do a lot of live improvisation. Good bands and good singers are more in control of their thing - they're not just doing Karoke.

I did one gig in Dublin (the Pod) with full gear/keyboards (and another bloke) on a stage in full view of the crowd - full electronic live PA.

See, it depends on the gig/crowd. Like it was very fashionable for indie bands over recent years to have mini synths - And dickheads playing them. There was also a time, where every single band you'd see on TV would have Nord on a stand - even if there was no Nord in the track.

After the gig was finished... a girl right at front said 'can ye bring yer decks to party after?' - I mean, didn't anyone even see we were playing keyboards?

The dance scene is different. Where on the Indie/rock scene, people think the instruments have the magic - with dance, the magic is perceived to be in the decks and the mixer.

When I was younger and saw bands playing to a backing - and didn't think it had anything to do with respect - was more worried about my beer and getting laid.

And then by some drunken accident you ended up in the music bizzness

I'll tell you the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I was at a show Dolly Parton played. Ok, that's weird enough, but. She had a full big band on stage - but she also had another band off stage playing at the same time as band on stage. I was side stage. But she had another drummer and a guy there with full sized vintage Hammonds and other stuff. The players were so spot on - it may as well have been a CD. The off stage band were completely hidden from the audience.

live backing tracks - cop out or "does'nt bother me"?

Comments