What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

partyatmygaff · 21-04-2011 03:28PM

drkpower wrote: »

But if you would like to consider how the average atheist (or even agnostic) feels about such issues, consider your reaction if, tomorrow, 90% ish of Irish schools were run by Scientologists or had a Scientology ethos and if, tomorrow, our politicians, judges and others were obliged to take oaths to L Ron Hubbard.

According to official statistics (Which I am aware are flawed but the government cannot act on anything but official figures) 90ish % of Irish people are Roman Catholic and consequentially 90ish % of Irish schools are also run by Catholics.

As for oaths of office, It would be best that that they are oaths to the state itself without any reference to Religion as it would make no sense for a non-Christian to swear on the Bible for example.

In any case, this thread is getting slightly off topic, it's a thread about God. Not the particulars of Religion in Ireland.

Hookah · 21-04-2011 03:30PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea that it is. It can be a bit of a magnet for the new age BS though. "The Secret" being a classic example.

The Copenhagen mis-Interpretation, as it's known.

Latchy · 21-04-2011 03:31PM

AnalogueKid wrote: »

I don't like rap music, but I don't feel the need to go on to a Hip Hop thread saying they are starting threads to annoy me.

Just like the guy in the 'favorite Irish ballads ' thread who said he didn't like all that fiddly eye stuff so why bother going in there ? .....now that's annoying

partyatmygaff · 21-04-2011 03:32PM

drkpower wrote: »

Nope; there is the third way favoured by most atheists (in my experience). Im quite surprised that you hadnt heard of this third option....

3. We have no idea whether there is a God but as there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest he does exists, lets act on the basis that he does not.

What difference does it make? It is a more developed version of the "There is no God" idea. They are the same in essentials.

drkpower · 21-04-2011 03:36PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

What difference does it make? It is a more developed version of the "There is no God" idea. They are the same in essentials.

They are not the same at all!

You dont know (for sure) that Thor does not exist; but you proceed on the basis that he doesnt exist, because noone has ever presented convincing evidecne for his existence.

I have the same policy re: God.

AnalogueKid · 21-04-2011 03:37PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

As opposed to atheists whose beliefs are entirely original. There are only two possibilities, there is a God or there is not a God. It's an age-old debate, there is no originality to be had.

You completely took my quote out of context and only quoted the first half of it. Excellent cherry picking there!

Accusing atheists of being externally influenced (which I've no doubt some are) whilst the overwhelming majority of people in this country are raised in the same religion as their family (not too much choice there!) and attend schools run by religious orders is a remarkably feeble statement to make. When people start actually choosing their religion after studying all faiths or philosphies, then come back to me.

drkpower · 21-04-2011 03:39PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

According to official statistics (Which I am aware are flawed but the government cannot act on anything but official figures) 90ish % of Irish people are Roman Catholic and consequentially 90ish % of Irish schools are also run by Catholics.

As for oaths of office, It would be best that that they are oaths to the state itself without any reference to Religion as it would make no sense for a non-Christian to swear on the Bible for example.
.

I am not really arguing (right now) whether it is justifiable that 90% schools are run by the Church.

You were refererring to the fact that religious education etc does not 'brainwash' people. I am asking you to consider whether you would have concerns for your children if, tomorrow, all the schools became Scientology schools? If you would have concerns, ask yourself why.

ScumLord · 21-04-2011 03:40PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I contend that supposed Religious brainwashing is not true either.

Just because the brainwashing techniques have lost their effectiveness doesn't mean it's not brain washing. I don't think anyone sets out in the church to brainwash people but the rituals of the church are a type of brainwashing that the church came to rely on through trial and error over thousands of years of practice.

optogirl · 21-04-2011 03:42PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

In any case, this thread is getting slightly off topic, it's a thread about God. Not the particulars of Religion in Ireland.

You brought us here

[ QUOTE = partyatmyfaff:] What's even more amazing is that most of Boards.ie here was "brainwashed" by the Roman Catholic church as well. I really have to hand it to the Roman Catholic church. Their brainwashing looks to have worked excellently judging by the constant vicious criticism being lashed out at them all day here on boards... [/QUOTE]

partyatmygaff · 21-04-2011 03:46PM

AnalogueKid wrote: »

You completely took my quote out of context and only quoted the first half of it. Excellent cherry picking there!

Terribly sorry. Let's re do that all over again, shall we?

AnalogueKid wrote: »

... as opposed to religious people whose beliefs are entirely original.

I came to that conclusion by myself. Growing up in 1980s Ireland, the only atheist I knew of was Dave Allen.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

As opposed to atheists whose beliefs are entirely original. There are only two possibilities, there is a God or there is not a God. It's an age-old debate, there is no originality to be had.

Poor Craythur · 21-04-2011 03:46PM

Buceph wrote: »

If you take how long we've existed, and how quickly our technology has advanced and predictions for the advancement of future technology. Apply that to the length of time the universe has existed of which a function would be the likelihood of another intelligent being existing during that time, developing (to a point we can't imagine) and travelling the stars. Especially if you take the consideration that one of the first things we did as a species was colonise, and now we're reaching to space, and we generally tend to make ourselves known and generally search for life. So maybe aliens wouldn't directly travel the universe with aliens on ships, but they probably would make themselves known, like pumping out a signal across the galaxies. Then realise that we've had the technology to read quite a few transmissions (forces, radiation, that kind of thing) and you can come to the conclusion that if there ever was intelligent life out there, they would have in some way broadcast their existence long before we came about, so we should now be able to read it, and because we can't it's unlikely they ever existed.

You think we could be pick any and every alien transmissions made in this universe? And that the fact that we haven't is proof that it's unlikely other life doesn't exist? We haven't even got anywhere near the foothills in terms of space exploration, and probably won't (space travel has huge limitations) so because we've not experienced anything like extraterrestrial encounter in this tiny TINY fraction of, well, infinity, that shows other life likely doesn't exist? Am I reading you right? :eek:

I think life could exist out there. The conditions just need to be right. But the likelihood of us and it ever coming into contact is slim to none.

smokingman wrote: »

Given that the light from the furthest galaxy from us would take just less than three times the age of the Earth itself to reach us, signals from any older alien race might just not have reached us yet.

Exactly!

partyatmygaff · 21-04-2011 03:50PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Just because the brainwashing techniques have lost their effectiveness doesn't mean it's not brain washing. I don't think anyone sets out in the church to brainwash people but the rituals of the church are a type of brainwashing that the church came to rely on through trial and error over thousands of years of practice.

But if they do not intend to brainwash and there is no actual evidence of supposed brainwashing being successful then effectively there is no brainwashing taking place.

optogirl wrote: »

You brought us here

No I didn't. Someone insinuated that all those who believe in God are brainwashed. I then made that post to show that said supposed brainwashing is in fact a moot point.

theboat · 21-04-2011 03:51PM

The way I see it, this thread is addressed at people who DON'T believe God exists. The question is irrelevant to those who believe in a god. Thus, surely the debate about whether or not God does exist is off-topic, and belongs in Religion and Spirituality forum, not After Hours...?

For the record, OP, I don't think I ever believed in a god. Was raised in a completely non-religious family, and went to a multi-denominational school. At no point do I remember being told that God exists.
That said, I was baptised in a Catholic church, but that was only to keep my grandparents happy...
I'm an atheist, and pretty much always have been, even if I wasn't always familiar with the term.

cucbuc · 21-04-2011 04:00PM

Seems to me that the thread title is intentionally provocative, and frankly smacks of immaturity. Many people do believe in God, and their beliefs are as valid as the op's. No more, no less.

AnalogueKid · 21-04-2011 04:01PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Terribly sorry. Let's re do that all over again, shall we?

No need to be sorry buddy, it's just my atheism has had nothing to do with the media. My point is that unlike most religious beliefs things like scripture, schooling, societal norms, everyday greetings, religious programming (TV I mean, not brainwashing!), and home environment have absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs.

drkpower · 21-04-2011 04:02PM

cucbuc wrote: »

Seems to me that the thread title is intentionally provocative, and frankly smacks of immaturity. Many people do believe in God, and their beliefs are as valid as the op's. No more, no less.

How is it provocative?

Is a thread entitled 'when did you first realise you liked beer' provocative to non-drinkers?

It is clearly aimed at non-believers; are you being a tad defensive, perhaps?

Naikon · 21-04-2011 04:06PM

cucbuc wrote: »

Many people do believe in God, and their beliefs are as valid as the op's. No more, no less.

No, they're not. I believe an individual has a right to believe anything he/she wishes. That does not mean the belief is grounded in verifiable logic though. Why does society brandish a person hearing voices in his head to be crazy, yet a "religious" person gets away with his/her asinine beliefs? Believing something to be true, does not automatically make it true.

ScumLord · 21-04-2011 04:10PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

But if they do not intend to brainwash and there is no actual evidence of supposed brainwashing being successful then effectively there is no brainwashing taking place.

They do want people to believe what they believe. I think they want to do that out of kindness and compassion and will use just about any tactic to achieve that goal. They won't see it as a bad thing to do because they believe the end justify the means.

They've been very successful at it up until recently.

PeterIanStaker · 21-04-2011 04:12PM

I was about 9 - 10 I'd say. Just sort of dawned on me gradually.

Latchy · 21-04-2011 04:14PM

Naikon wrote: »

No, they're not. I believe an individual has a right to believe anything he/she wants. That does not mean the belief is grounded in verifiable logic though. Why does society brandish a person hearing voices in his head to be crazy, yet a "religious" person gets away with his/her asinine beliefs? Believing something to be true, does not make it true.

Some of those (highlighted ) may suffer from a form of mental illness except it wont be recognized as such and if you've ever met somebody who's obsessed with their religion ( sure we all have ) their behavior can sometimes border on the manic or psychotic .

Galway K9 · 21-04-2011 04:18PM

98

RayM · 21-04-2011 04:34PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

wot you should do is get down on your knees and thank God that you dont have to mix with these cretins on a day-to-day basis.

Cretins? How very Christian of you.

I'm not sure how old I was when I stopped believing in god. Apart from the usual school rituals (of which I have nothing but good memories) and having to go to mass every week until I was around 12, religion was never really rammed down my throat. Because of that, it never really occurred to me to 'rebel' against it, or even to give the (now very obvious) non-existence of a deity an awful lot of thought.

Ghost Buster · 21-04-2011 05:01PM

I still have not realised it does or does not exist. Im waiting to be convinced.
Anything....anything at all.......

major bill · 21-04-2011 05:15PM

some people look down at others that have faith but its the atheists i feel sorry for..must be horrible to think thats there nothing there atall and id love to have the same faith as some people have!!!.

starlit · 21-04-2011 05:17PM

Had my doubts about the Catholic Religion/Jesus as young as 7! But not so much God really.
You can be christian and not believe and be a catholic or vice versa. You can be christian if you do something of a christian nature i.e. charity work etc without having to follow a faith at all. What ever floats peoples boats...everyone has something either spiritual or what ever or nothing at all no biggy.

Buceph · 21-04-2011 05:20PM

major bill wrote: »

some people look down at others that have faith but its the atheists i feel sorry for..must be horrible to think thats there nothing there atall and id love to have the same faith as some people have!!!.

I don't understand this. I don't need a purpose or an afterlife. I'm quite happy with getting on with getting on.

Ghost Buster · 21-04-2011 07:07PM

major bill wrote: »

some people look down at others that have faith but its the atheists i feel sorry for..must be horrible to think thats there nothing there atall and id love to have the same faith as some people have!!!.

Well seeing as one of the options which are available to those of faith is blazing rivers of eternal torment for not doing what you are told or for wearing mixed fabrics Im quite happy to settle for this.
BTW I look down on no one....

Yahew · 21-04-2011 07:17PM

i was 9. And why cant this forum go into the atheism forum?

Also, since atheism is common now, the common are atheist. Probably the people in the Christianity forum are smarter because they are, at least, holding and debating a non-conformist belief system. Its not that great to be a non-believer in Ireland, or the West, in 2011. Well done. Well done on tying your lace. Well done on not pooping your pants. Well done.

Now get over it.

21-04-2011 07:24PM

Yahew wrote: »

i was 9. And why cant this forum go into the atheism forum?

Also, since atheism is common now, the common are atheist. Probably the people in the Christianity forum are smarter because they are, at least, holding and debating a non-conformist belief system. Its not that great to be a non-believer in Ireland, or the West, in 2011. Well done. Well done on tying your lace. Well done on not pooping your pants. Well done.

Now get over it.

Are you 9 now?

average hero · 21-04-2011 07:25PM

This thread is more suited to the atheism forum to be honest. The thread title implies that everyone on this forum, or those willing to read/respond to the thread do not believe in God. If it doesn't imply that, then it is somewhat inflammatory.

To Christians: Atheists can't understand why you believe in something that does not have any basis in logic, and is from a book and events from the past. For you to believe in it implies you are superstitious and believe in flying atari jaguars.

To Atheists: Christians have a faith and that means that they believe in something which may not be obvious to you. It is simply a religious belief, and they should not be harassed for it.

Religious belief or not is a personal thing, so can we PLEASE grow up, and show our maturity by not getting into this agenda again. THANK YOU

What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

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