Younger women and their lack of conversation about certain issues

looksee · 02-04-2011 10:36PM

I recall reading a story/comment or similar, by a male writer - years ago which was pretty well known at the time, something to the effect of -

'I deal with all the really important stuff in our house, like who is going to win the next election and how the economy of the country can be sorted, and my wife deals with the details, like where the children will go to school, and where we will live, and how the household money is spent.'

Much the same as this discussion really.

MiniSquish · 05-04-2011 05:16PM

I am a younger woman (22) and I often have those kinds of conversations with my female friends. In my experience its my male friends that would balk if I brought up anything too deep or taxing. People have perceptions of others totally based upon face value (not saying that you do OP). I myself am blonde and am in the typical female fashion interested in make up, fashion etc. I have had many experiences where members of the opposite sex were shocked that I knew a certain fact or about something going on in the world, I think it just depends on which younger woman you're talking to. I have friends that I can have deep conversations with and also friends that are only interested in light conversations.

Maga · 05-04-2011 07:45PM

I am a woman, and yet I do agree with OP. Of course this is also based on my personal experience.

But I'd like to be Devils' advocate here, and as much as I respect and partially agree with the genetic background to male/female differences,

I believe there are actually some more relevant aspects that explain such difference - the famous social background.

(Again it is also a poor generalisation, I know, and it will depend on the country/region, generation, etc, but this is how I see it)

Still as a child, and later as a teenager, there is a lot of pressure from society and peers to turn girls into something pretty to look at and pleasant to talk to.This is what a girl is rewarded for and complimented on.

Very young girls are supposed to learn how to apply make-up, do their hair and dress well. How to wrap up gifts, etiquette rules and all sort of "manners". As much as guys do receive some "training" in good behaviour, I believe they also get encouraged (or maybe just left alone) to learn about cars, airplanes, martial arts, sports, games, etc.

A bit later, during teen years and early adulthood, there is again a big trend that girls will talk about boyfriends/dates/feelings and clothes/accessories to go to such dates. Guys don't have much of this pressure, so they use their spare time to learn how to play the guitar, history, politics, etc. And their own careers.

I have a feeling that the woman has been picked and destined by society (and even by herself, many times) to develop "people-skills", to understand and perceive feelings, to make sure people are happy and comfortable around her, to be smiling, nurturing and pleasant to her future family.

As the guys.. well, the guys go on with their lives (as it shoud be!) and develop themselves as independent human beings, with personal interests and hobbies - instead of spending years looking for and expecting a "soulmate/other half" to show up in their lives and make everything alright and meaningful, and turn them into complete human beings.They are taught that being themselves is enough. And probably also receive pressure to have a career/opinions instead of looks (guys, you can tell me whether this part is true)

Again, I don't think its anyone's fault in particular, but I do have the impression that things have being following this trend for quite a while, for historical/so reasons. Perhaps now with the new generations this will change a bit. But right now I feel that *in general* most women are trained to be a Mother/Wife, as the guys are trained to be human beings.

Maga · 05-04-2011 08:09PM

PS. As others mentioned, there are differences in the brain of men and women, and women do come with an uterus, alright. But I don't think that is enough to explain the "nurturer-mother-wife" label that women currently carry.

Not so long ago, human societies were matriarchal.

And as for the Chimpanzees example, there are other human-like primates who are also matriarchal (eg. Bonobos).

06-04-2011 10:01AM

Maga wrote: »

PS. As others mentioned, there are differences in the brain of men and women, and women do come with an uterus, alright. But I don't think that is enough to explain the "nurturer-mother-wife" label that women currently carry.

Not so long ago, human societies were matriarchal.

And as for the Chimpanzees example, there are other human-like primates who are also matriarchal (eg. Bonobos).

Could you back that up please?

Permabear · 06-04-2011 10:27AM

This post has been deleted.

prinz · 06-04-2011 11:37AM

Donald_ducked wrote: »

What is your take on this?

There has been discussion on this before on other threads. I would be in the same camp as you, but I would also say that young Irish men aren't really much better. I think Irish conversation as opposed to female conversation, especially amongst younger people is usually devoid of any real intellectual stimulation, debate, opinion fora number of reasons; afraid of sticking out with an opinion of your own, afraid of looking stupid/smart, a lot of socialising centring around alcohol - as opposed to say over a long dinner, time at home with no TV, meeting over coffee etc.

Denerick · 06-04-2011 12:21PM

I thanked the OPs post, because I admired its audacity and because I think he articulated something that many men think, but few express.

He's wrong, of course, but like most stupid statements there is an element of truth to it. I've nothing but anecdotal stuff, and anything I may say may lead to some feminazi hate mail so...

Maga · 06-04-2011 05:14PM

About Bonobos and other mammals with matriarchal societies, I quickly researched this link, it's quite interesting: http://scientificmatriarchy.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-three-bonobo-sex.html?zx=ea0dae226f3f1e1e

For more in depth info, Frans de Waal is the guy who did lots of studies on Bonobos. This is also an article on Bonobos: http://www.springerlink.com/content/xu20492471166764/

As for ancient societies, for my best knowledge, several ancient civilizations in what we now know as Ireland/UK and in South America and Africa had matriarchal societies. That’s off the top of my head, but I could search more on that. It's actually quite fascinating.

Even without going that far, in 2011, depending on the level of sexism/ religion/ consumism /media brainwashing/ family values etc – ie, cultural values - of a country, women are raised as more or as less of a "nurturer".
If anyone had the chance to have a good chat with women from Nordic countries and some continental European ones (generalization again, I know, but the difference is amazing!), I doubt anyone could say they are shallow/ uninformed.

If you talk to women from more traditional countries / backgrounds, you will see that their aim in life is a loving husband and gorgeous kids (or to a less degree, a career but still a family and a boyfriend they have to make happy all the time)

One aim is not better than the other, but both take time and investment.

You cannot be the perfect always-available staying-at-home Mother and the gorgeous well-dressed Wife and still run marathons, study photography, politics and have a demanding career in Physics (although it seems like women are expected to do even that now a days!).

At the end of the day, it's all about aims and values, and the time / effort allocated to reach such aims and values.

That said, my personal take on it all is that no human being should live with this huge responsibility of being The Nurturer, growing up hearing that they will only be happy and appreciated if they have a husband and kids.

Younger women and their lack of conversation about certain issues

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