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'Organ donors' without helmets

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Comments

  • #182
    --LOS--
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭--LOS--


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Alternatively, make your own:

    http://www.instructables.com/id/BIKE-LIGHT-500-Lumen-%22Mt.Bike%22-for-under-10-bucks-/

    now that is pretty cool! Good ole veggiecyle :D

    enough derailleuring this thread sorry :O


  • #183
    dited
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭dited


    Madam, they're still going on about it:
    Madam, – I am statistically in the very small percentage of your readers who has had brain surgery. I made a complete recovery from this surgery due the fabulous talents of a brain surgeon and his team. I never want to have to meet any brain surgeon again and for this reason I wear a helmet when cycling.

    My brain surgery was not due to a cycling accident, but this is incidental as to why I wear a helmet. I suspect all your readers who have met a brain surgeon professionally wear helmets. The wearing of helmets when cycling is a no-brainer to me. – Yours, etc,

    HENRY COUNIHAN,
    Taney Crescent,
    Goatstown, Dublin 14.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224292954856

    Hmm. He's claiming that his suffering a brain injury (which had nothing whatsoever to do with cycling), and then making a full recovery, means that everyone has to wear helmets while cycling.:confused: I'm having a little difficulty understanding the thought process at work here.


  • #184
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,685 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    With logic like his, it seems to me he may have injured his brain more than he thought.

    what nonsense.:rolleyes:


  • #185
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    His logic is clearly flawed, but at the same time I think spending any amount of time around people with brain injuries (which, as I've said previously, I have done) would scare you into wearing a helmet.

    Okay so I've now chosen not to wear one, but when I think back on the times I was visiting in rehab a lot of those people either had strokes or other medical anomalies, the only accident I remember had been someone in a car crash, but I didn't choose to wear a helmet while driving. I don't understand why we jump to wear helmets because of the head injury fear, but don't apply it to driving, even when most of the "driving deaths" adverts on television always emphasise the terrible head injuries inflected on eveyone in cars (I realise these ads are to do with seat belt wearing, but a seat belt isn't a guarantee of avoiding head or neck injuries).


  • #186
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    Harrybelafonte wrote: »
    His logic is clearly flawed, but at the same time I think spending any amount of time around people with brain injuries (which, as I've said previously, I have done) would scare you into wearing a helmet.

    It depends on the type of person you are. As said before, I've spent plenty of time in the rehab, and specifically with someone with brain injuries, and it didn't change my mind whatsoever, as they are not comparable


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  • #187
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    TinyExplosions wrote: »
    It depends on the type of person you are. As said before, I've spent plenty of time in the rehab, and specifically with someone with brain injuries, and it didn't change my mind whatsoever, as they are not comparable

    Agree. I just mean I can understand that someone who has seen the effects might be rattled enough to take the path he has.


  • #188
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    I wear a helmet when cycling to keep my wife happy, as I'd surely get killed or worse if I went out there without a helmet. She doesn't wear a helmet because it messes with her hair. There's logic in there somewhere.

    Out of interest, do others here make their kids wear helmets when cycling? I do, though I never had one as a kid myself, or even remember anyone having a helmet.

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  • #189
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    smacl wrote: »
    I wear a helmet when cycling to keep my wife happy, as I'd surely get killed or worse if I went out there without a helmet. She doesn't wear a helmet because it messes with her hair. There's logic in there somewhere.

    Out of interest, do others here make their kids wear helmets when cycling? I do, though I never had one as a kid myself, or even remember anyone having a helmet.



    Could the "logic" possibly relate to your not having a full head of hair? ;)

    I put a helmet on my 3-year-old son while cycling. Kids are much more prone to bumps than adults are, and the only time I feel cycling-related anxiety is when he's on the bike (mine or his own).

    That said, the only bumps to the head he has received were due to other activities, almost exclusively when playing/messing in and around the house. "Logical" solutions: make him wear a helmet for twelve hours every day, get rid of the kitchen table or pad it with bubble-wrap, remove or lock all drawer units, lock the bathrooms and stop washing him, stop letting him play outside, move to a bungalow...


  • #190
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    smacl wrote: »
    I wear a helmet when cycling to keep my wife happy, as I'd surely get killed or worse if I went out there without a helmet. She doesn't wear a helmet because it messes with her hair. There's logic in there somewhere.

    Out of interest, do others here make their kids wear helmets when cycling? I do, though I never had one as a kid myself, or even remember anyone having a helmet.

    Yeah, I do (most of the time). If he's in the cargo bike it's cos there's f'all he can do to save himself from a fall to the side. If he's on his own bike it's because I'm not sure if he'll do enough to catch himself at all. He's seven. I'll be honest though, it's mostly cos if something were to happen and it was proven that he'd have been fine with one, the guilt would kill me, no matter how infinitesimal the possiblity of that may be. But when I watch him cycling along at 4km/h I wonder if I've missed something.


  • #191
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    That's probably the stupidest letter in this whole sorry correspondence so far.
    Madam -

    I suffered a brain injury when getting out of the shower. I strongly recommend bicycle helmets while cycling.

    Yours,

    A stranger to reason


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  • #192
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    That's probably the stupidest letter in this whole sorry correspondence so far.

    TBF I strongly suspect the letter was written simply to get attention for the wit of using "no brainer" in a statement about helmet safety


  • #193
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    "Logical" solutions: make him wear a helmet for twelve hours every day

    I realise you're joking; I'm only using your waggish suggestion to make this point:

    Children definitely should not wear helmets when playing away from the bike. The chances of your child being strangled by the helmet is small, but it's a unnecessary risk they wouldn't face without the helmet. I think three children have been accidentally strangled in Australia in the last decade by wearing bicycle helmets during activities other than cycling. So, a very small risk but an unnecessary risk.

    There's no real evidence that helmets prevent serious head injuries for children (unless you find case-control studies very compelling), but I can see how the peace of mind is important to people. I'd personally prefer if they could make them smaller somehow. They really make children's head absolutely enormous, which must make hitting their head more likely.


  • #194
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Harrybelafonte wrote: »
    Yeah, I do (most of the time). If he's in the cargo bike it's cos there's f'all he can do to save himself from a fall to the side.

    What cargo bike do you use? I'm just interested. Not helmet-related.


  • #195
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    There's no real evidence that helmets prevent serious head injuries for children (unless you find case-control studies very compelling), but I can see how the peace of mind is important to people.
    That's interesting. I'd always assumed that the helmet provided more marginal benefit as the kids' heads are softer, and also that they are much more likely to have fall-off accidents than the sort in which helmets are of zero help. Actually that's the main reason I wear a helmet - I don't think I can ask my 3 year old to wear a helmet if I don't myself.

    Might have to rethink this.


  • #196
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    What cargo bike do you use? I'm just interested. Not helmet-related.

    Bullitt, think we had a discussion about it before


  • #197
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Undercover Elephant wrote: »
    That's interesting. I'd always assumed that the helmet provided more marginal benefit as the kids' heads are softer, and also that they are much more likely to have fall-off accidents than the sort in which helmets are of zero help. Actually that's the main reason I wear a helmet - I don't think I can ask my 3 year old to wear a helmet if I don't myself.

    Might have to rethink this.
    This is fairly typical of the evidence put forward that helmets are very effective for children:
    http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1166.html

    However, they may well be effective at preventing gashes and scrapes. I don't know. It may be that you'll never persuade your extended family to let the child cycle without one, so it might be worth using one for for the purposes of having a quiet life. This is probably what will happen to me.

    To be honest, bar the whole-population time-trend analysis (which I personally think is the best available evidence), the quality of evidence in the bicycle helmet debate is depressingly low.


  • #198
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Harrybelafonte wrote: »
    Bullitt, think we had a discussion about it before
    Ah yeah, silly me. Nice one.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70272921&postcount=58


  • #199
    doozerie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    tomasrojo wrote:
    To be honest, bar the whole-population time-trend analysis (which I personally think is the best available evidence), the quality of evidence in the bicycle helmet debate is depressingly low.

    I agree about the poor quality of the evidence. Worse still, quite often the debates don't even call upon evidence at all as many of the most hardened views seem to be based on assumptions and anecdotes that many people are happy to take as solid facts. And questioning those potentially gets you labelled as misguided at best and a crank at worst. If you approach the debate with an open mind you have to wade through the hysteria to get to anything resembling a discussion and by then you've lost the will to live, ironically.


  • #200
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    When I expressed some helmet-sceptic views in conversation with two senior public health professionals, they both looked at me as if I'd just spat on the carpet.

    When I argued evidence, they countered with "well if you do fall off your bike, is it not better to be wearing a helmet than not wearing one?"

    Despite their pro-cycling rhetoric, and their emphasis on public policy as a means of promoting active travel, at the end of the day some of them seem to be swayed more by feelings and anecdote than by evidence and the bigger picture.






    EDIT: Interesting passage in this recent briefing paper from the Institute of Public Health in Ireland:

    Motor vehicle speed is a key factor in both the frequency and severity of pedestrian and cyclist injury. Pedestrians have a 90% chance of surviving car crashes at 30km/h or less but less than a 50% chance of surviving an impact at 45km/h or above. Among adult cyclists, frequency of brain injury rises from 17% at 30km/h impact to 66% for impact speed above 51km/h. There is growing evidence to suggest that reducing vehicle speed in built up areas increases both the prevalence and safety of active travel.

    Worth following the citation trail, I would suggest (eg Otte 1989).




    .


  • #201
    Mucco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Mucco


    Why won't it go away?
    Irish Times wrote:
    A chara, – I am a retired neurosurgical anaesthetist. Twenty years ago our unit did its best for a much-loved fellow triathlete whose head hit the road. The helmet that would probably have saved his life was at home. None of his many friends has got on a bike unprotected since, and several of us have had cause to be grateful. Broken wrists and collarbones are long healed and forgotten, but a brain is a fragile computer in a thin box, and you only have one. – Is mise,

    Dr MIKE HARRIS,

    Bishopstown Avenue,

    Cork.


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  • #202
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    EDIT: Posted same letter as above.

    Proof by assertion. Same as all the other letters from consultants on this issue.


  • #203
    doozerie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Another example of the odd attitude towards helmets is demonstrated for me by the relatively high profile injuries to James Cracknell and his subsequent stance on helmet usage. Basically, he was hit on the back of the head by the wing mirror of a tanker in the US and was sent flying through the air by the force of it. His injuries were severe and he is still in the process of trying to recover from the brain damage he incurred. Any articles I have read about it state clearly that the helmet saved his life by reducing the damage to his head (in one article I read he also mentions that fragments of the helmet had to be removed from his head at the hospital, which is yet another reflection on the force of the blow to his head/helmet). I certainly wouldn't dispute the claims that his helmet helped save his life, but the odd aspect of it all is that he himself he has become a complete convert to the idea that helmets should be mandatory despite acknowledging that the helmet was not designed to handle a blow of that force to that part of the head yet - he doesn't seem to be calling on cycling helmet design to change to give more protection to the back of the head, just that people be obliged to wear current designs which give any substantial protection to the back of the head seemingly by chance rather than by design.

    It was clearly a horrendous incident and it is understandable why he would be reluctant to cycle without a helmet again, but the leap of logic to a stance of everyone else needing a helmet too is flawed on several levels - given his popularity and public exposure, though, his views are likely to carry weight with many people.


  • #204
    purethick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭purethick


    Mucco wrote: »
    Why won't it go away?

    You can expect an awful lot more... Also nothing in the press release about raising awareness of cyclists for other road users, e.g. allowing ample overtaking distances when passing cyclists


    RSA Launches Campaign To Promote Cycle Safety

    622 Cyclists Killed or Seriously Injured On Irish Roads from 1997 to 2010

    On Monday 28th March, the Road Safety Authority (RSA) will launch a national radio advertising campaign to raise awareness of road safety among cyclists. The advert, which aims to educate cyclists on how to stay safe on the roads, will be broadcast on all national and regional radio stations over the next two weeks.

    Cyclists are at risk when using the road, as these statistics from the 1997-2010* period show:

    178 pedal cyclists were killed;
    444 cyclists were seriously injured;
    More than 67% of road deaths among cyclists occurred during daylight hours;
    Over one third of fatal collisions with cyclists happened during summer months.
    Speaking about the launch, Mr. Noel Brett, Chief Executive, Road Safety Authority said: “This is an important awareness campaign for the RSA, as cyclists continue to be vulnerable on our roads. Over the period 1997 to 2010, 178 pedal cyclists have been killed in Ireland and a further 444 cyclists were seriously injured over the same period. We are reminding cyclists that it’s everyone’s responsibility to pay attention and stay safe on the roads. Simple actions such as wearing a helmet and high visibility jacket, obeying the Rules of the Road and anticipating what drivers may do, could save your life.”

    He added that ‘Drivers also need to pay attention and be on guard for cyclists using the road. Allow plenty of space when overtaking a cyclist and always anticipate a cyclist having to make a sudden move to avoid a pothole or obstruction. It’s also important to watch out for cyclists at junctions especially when turning left.”

    Mr. Brett also reminded people about the importance of vulnerable road users being visible on the roads: “Although the clocks go forward this weekend and evenings will get brighter, it’s as important as ever for people to wear high visibility clothing when out cycling or walking on the roads. More than 67% of road deaths among cyclists between 1997 and 2010 occurred during daylight hours and over one third of these cyclists were killed during the summer months. Dusk remains a danger period when drivers may not see cyclists and pedestrians, so please be aware of your vulnerability on the road at all times of the day and night. Take responsibility for your safety and make sure that you wear a high visibility vest when cycling or walking.”

    To promote safe cycling the RSA will distribute 20,000 high visibility ruck-sack covers to cyclists during April. To date the RSA has distributed thousands of high visibility jackets to cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians.

    The RSA’s Cycle Safety booklet is available for download from the RSA website (http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Wrecked/Downloads/Cycle%20safety%20booklet.pdf )

    Cyclists can also find top tips on safer cycling at www.rulesoftheroad.ie . Daylight Saving Time starts on Sunday, 27th March 2011 at 1:00AM when clocks will go forward by one hour.

    For further information, please contact:

    RSA Communications Office, Ballina: 096 25008

    *2010 casualty figures are provisional

    RSA Top Tips for Safer Cycling:

    Know and obey the Rules of the Road;
    Wear reflective clothing at all times;
    Always wear a helmet when on your bike;
    Your brakes, tyres, chain, lights, reflector and bell must be in good working order;
    It’s the law to have a bell on your bike. Use the bell as a warning, not for fun;
    Have appropriate lighting and reflectors on your bicycle - white or yellow lamps to the front and red at the back;
    Keep both hands on the handlebars, except when signaling or changing gears;
    Use hand signals when turning or stopping;
    Never cycle more than two abreast;
    Always cycle single-file when overtaking; Keep well back when cycling behind moving vehicles in all traffic;
    Never ride in the lane of oncoming traffic even if it is a bicycle lane or hard shoulder;
    Never take up a position on the ‘inside’ of a large vehicle out of view of the driver. Stay behind if the large vehicle has stopped at a junction with the intention of turning left;
    Never wear an mp3, iPod or use a mobile phone when cycling; Make sure your laces are tied to ensure they do not get caught in the bicycle chain;
    Take care on wet or icy roads, or when there is a strong wind; Use cycle tracks, where they are available;
    Use the Safe Cross Code if walking on the footpath with your bicycle.


  • #205
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    RSA Top Tips for Safer Cycling:

    Know and obey the Rules of the Road;
    Wear reflective clothing at all times;
    Always wear a helmet when on your bike;
    Your brakes, tyres, chain, lights, reflector and bell must be in good working order;

    No objection to no. 1 piece of advice, but helmets and hi-vis shouldn't come before roadworthiness. Also, a bell is not a safety device worth putting near the top of a list either (though they may have some merit).

    Also, you don't need to wear reflective clothing at all times. On a day with good visibility (most days after dawn and before dusk) it's not necessary at all. And outside those hours powerful lights are preferable anyway.
    Never take up a position on the ‘inside’ of a large vehicle out of view of the driver. Stay behind if the large vehicle has stopped at a junction with the intention of turning left;

    This should be at the top of the list in large flashing letters. Instead it's down near the bottom with advice on how to walk your bicycle.


  • #206
    Mucco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Mucco


    purethick wrote: »
    Never take up a position on the ‘inside’ of a large vehicle out of view of the driver. Stay behind if the large vehicle has stopped at a junction with the intention of turning left;

    This should be a much higher priority than pushing helmets, especially in cities. It's what they have in London now, posters on bus shelters, and flyers distributed on parked bikes....not much mention of helmets.
    TFL poster


  • #207
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,685 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    purethick wrote: »
    1.Wear reflective clothing at all times;
    2.Always wear a helmet when on your bike;
    3.It’s the law to have a bell on your bike. Use the bell as a warning, not for fun;
    4.Keep both hands on the handlebars, except when signaling or changing gears;
    5.Use hand signals when turning or stopping;
    6.Never wear an mp3, iPod or use a mobile phone when cycling; Make sure your laces are tied to ensure they do not get caught in the bicycle chain;
    7.Use the Safe Cross Code if walking on the footpath with your bicycle.

    The first two, why? there is zero obligation to do either
    3.Bell, lol :rolleyes: what the feck use is a bell to anyone when you can simply shout at people
    4. again what has that got to do with anything, they are saying you can't take your hands off to get a water bottle or something from your pockets?
    5. I don't think I've every seen any cyclist indicate that they were stopping, ever.
    6. again why not, having headphones on is not illegal and unless deafeningly loud will still allow you to hear everything going on around you anyway...
    7. what's that got to do with anything?

    Yet another crock of ****e from the RSA which helps nobody in real terms, just like most of their motoring ads and campaigns. Miss targeted and not picking up on the key issues. The campaign should really be jointly targeted at cyclists and motorists to ensure that motorists are taught how to deal with and react to cyclists as well as making sure cyclists are doing the right things.


  • #208
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I do signal that I'm stopping (the patting motion). I've never seen anyone else do it. I was castigated by a motorist once for using it, as she thought I was telling her to slow down.

    However, it does usually make following cyclists and motorists and least wonder what you're doing and slow down. Being rear-ended by cyclists jumping the lights is more likely without signalling, I think. Friend of mine was rear-ended and knocked from his bike by a RLJer the other week. I think Bikeability recommends looking behind now instead of the patting motion.

    Anyway, as you say, not really a terrifically important piece of advice.


  • #209
    purethick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭purethick


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    3.Bell, lol :rolleyes: what the feck use is a bell to anyone when you can simply shout at people

    [Off topic] I have one of these on both my bikes. 'tis very useful when someone thinks about pulling out in front of you


  • #210
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,997 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    One final thing about that press release is, like some of the correspondence in the Irish Times, it quotes fatality figures without context, as if those figures are compelling, when all they can signify without context is that cycling is not a zero-risk mode of transport. Of course, there's no such thing as a zero-risk mode of transport.


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  • #211
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Ok I'don't have time to catch up on 14 pages of this.

    As someone who fell off a bike without a helmet and got KO'ed for 20mins, something that would have been prevented by a helmet, I fail to see what the problem is with wearing helmets. Pardon the pun - its a no brainer that cyclists should wear helmets.

    Can someone please summarise the 'nay' side on helmets for me please ?


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