Advice for learning support class needed

eirn · 27-03-2011 10:30PM #1

Giving a learning support class to two pupils (junior cycle). The class was meant to be so they could have help with homework, they refuse to do this, sometimes they won’t even take their books out of their bags or let me check their homework journals, usually lie about even having them. Have tried worksheets, games, puzzles, letting them use computers, reading, talking, drawing, no joy. I hate to say it, but they’re fairly nasty kids. I know kids pick up on it if you don’t like them, so I try to think positive thoughts. But they literally roar at me and try to boss me around. Constantly saying that they don’t want the class, or my help, and that I think they’re stupid (I’ve never even implied this to any student). I don’t think it’s entirely fault, I’ve heard every other teacher they’ve had give out about them. Any ideas at all about how to deal with them? I’d nearly let them run wild and ignore them, but senior staff tend to pop in and make sure they’re doing something. Although they even have trouble getting them to behave!

rebel10 · 27-03-2011 10:44PM

eirn wrote: »

Giving a learning support class to two pupils (junior cycle). The class was meant to be so they could have help with homework, they refuse to do this, sometimes they won’t even take their books out of their bags or let me check their homework journals, usually lie about even having them. Have tried worksheets, games, puzzles, letting them use computers, reading, talking, drawing, no joy. I hate to say it, but they’re fairly nasty kids. I know kids pick up on it if you don’t like them, so I try to think positive thoughts. But they literally roar at me and try to boss me around. Constantly saying that they don’t want the class, or my help, and that I think they’re stupid (I’ve never even implied this to any student). I don’t think it’s entirely fault, I’ve heard every other teacher they’ve had give out about them. Any ideas at all about how to deal with them? I’d nearly let them run wild and ignore them, but senior staff tend to pop in and make sure they’re doing something. Although they even have trouble getting them to behave!

This bit worries me. You are paid to give them learning support, to ignore them and let them run wild is failing to do your job.
From what I am reading, I reckon they realise that you have almost given up trying, so they know they don't even have to try. Are their any teachers that possibly find them good in their class? P.E., Woodwork, Art? I only suggest these as sometimes they are subjects where weaker students can really achieve because they are not typically academic subjects. Perhaps you could ask the teacher about the approaches they take to engage the students.
Honestly, we have all been in situations like this, but you cannot let your guard down and you have to treat them in the same way you would treat your other students. Have you tried implementing disciplinary sanctions?
Would it be an idea to have their homework at hand from the their teachers so that they you can avoid the time wasting and confrontation. An incentive could be some form of organiser, which they use in most schools. Each teacher fills out a comment at the end of each class regarding their punctuality, organisation, homework etc., for a week and you can possibly reward them in some way for each week without a bad comment.

eirn · 28-03-2011 12:02AM

You’re absolutely right, I shouldn't have been glib, and I do try with them, but really am at my wits end. They're often removed from classes during the day, if their behaviour gets too aggressive or disruptive. Most teachers don't give them any homework. They do have daily reports, but pay little heed to them. I would be interested in rewarding good behaviour but not sure how best to go about this - what would be appropriate?
Like all teachers, I've had difficult situations to deal with, but have always found some way of getting through eventually, just haven't had any success with these 2. No, it's a relatively small teaching staff, I haven't come across anyone who has been able to engage them or really interest them in a subject. The closest I've come, is letting them watch videos on material relevant to the course. But I don't want to just stick them in front of the telly either. At this stage, I'm reluctant to bring a laptop with me; one picked it up and threatened to smash it the other day.

looksee · 28-03-2011 10:38AM

There must come a stage when 'dealing with difficult children' crosses over into 'giving psychiatric support' and it may be that these children have crossed that line.

However, one thing occurs to me, you have two of them together, they can feed off each other and have someone to show off to. Have you ever had them separately? At the moment they are coming to the classes - why, if they consider them so useless?

Evidently you are nervous of senior staff seeing that you cannot control them, and they are sure to pick up on this. You need to give the impression that you and the senior staff are on the same side - which you are - rather than you being nervous of 'the boss'. Do they respond to the check-ups by showing any respect to the senior staff or do they act up further?

niall3r · 28-03-2011 04:53PM

I would have two idea's which may work with difficult classes.

1: Sweets. Bring sweets into the class with you and keep them in your hand (so they cant rip them off you if they are so mental.) or even show it to them and then put them in your own school bag. When they get around to asking about them tell them if they do one simple thing you want them to, writing four sentences on what they done at the weekend or an easy maths problem that they can get them. Increase the amount of work that needs to be done in order for a reward to be achieved.

I know that some people frown on this system. I have had one teacher tell me in a very snarky way that they are children and not animals being trained. . . .but it has gotten disruptive groups working for me so I dont really care.

Hope this is in some way helpful and doesnt show any unprofessionalism.

I also realise that this may also make them hyper going into other peoples classes but if it gets you through your class periods then you may as well be selfish

2: Start a conversation. I teach two humanities subjects so it may be easier than in the sciences or languages. Depending on how often you have them you could give over a couple classes to just chatting (especially since its a small group). Tv shows they like, sports they like, girls they like, whatever they are interested in. (Im a relatively young teacher so like to think im cool

) Eventually you can build up a rapport with them and then you introduce work. . . ."Lads, Id love to have the craic with ye, and if we burst through this really quick then I wont feel guilty about us . . . . .doing whatever. ."

I briefly had to fill in some learning support classes and didnt have a clue what I was meant to do (even newer than I am now) and I got the kids to research Chuck Norris and write a report they had to read out in front of the class (there were 7 of them) It consisted mainly of Chuck Norris facts but they had to read and write etc and they were fairly weak academically. Turns out that was the most they had written all year and it was nothing relevant. . . .but nothing wrong with practice.

It seems your having a really tough time with this and I empathise with you. But keep your head up. There is no shame in having difficulties dealing with students that other colleagues find difficult.

eirn · 28-03-2011 06:15PM

Thanks for the advice:)
Had them again today, relatively calm, at least I didn't get my usual blinding headache. I was planning on staying away from sweets, (wary of them becoming more hyper) but think I'm going to give it a go as I promised them a reward at the end of the week if they did some work. I would like to spend a few minutes chatting about the day, how they got on, etc. but the principal or v.p always pops in and kinda undermine me if they don't see them working immediately. They have very little affect on their behaviour, they pretty much ignore them too. One of the kids is, in my opinion, seriously disturbed and alternates between making kissing sounds at me and growling (literally) he also frequently flies into a rage over the smallest thing, and is a complete bully. I don't know if he is actually diagnosed with something, or even been assessed. The school tends not to share that info with most of the staff.

byhookorbycrook · 28-03-2011 06:45PM

eirn wrote: »

. I don't know if he is actually diagnosed with something, or even been assessed. The school tends not to share that info with most of the staff.

The info needs to be made available for the staff dealing directly with the child. Is there a behaviour plan for these students?I'm in primary learning support and have copies of every bit of info in the school on any of "my" 30 children.Hard to deal with something, if you don't know what you are dealing with. To be honest, I don't think much of how the school is providing Learning support,it seems very poorly organised. This isn't helping . Time to get to the year head and look for any and all info.

E.T. · 28-03-2011 07:15PM

Couldn't agree more byhookorbycrook - I'm not a LS teacher, but I've had plenty of kids who've gone for LS. They all have plans put in place by myself and the LS/Resource teacher, working together. You need to go and ask if they have any diagnoses or any kind of reports. Their behaviour may be the result of an assessed condition which would make a huge difference in how you deal with their behaviour, and how much of their behaviour is controllable - both by you and by themselves.

Advice for learning support class needed

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