Where do you get off...

starbelgrade · 14-03-2011 11:46PM

I'm in America right now.

4th Avenue, East Orange, New Jersey, to be precise.

With Google streetview, you can go anywhere.

FoxT · 14-03-2011 11:49PM

...so generalisations about americans just sound.....dumb.

HoneyRyder · 14-03-2011 11:51PM

Millicent wrote: »

As opposed to the Irish?! Lolololololol! :pac: :pac: :pac:

As opposed to no-one Millicent. The question was about Americans and so was my answer.

Badgermonkey · 14-03-2011 11:51PM

I've been lucky enough to visit the States on maybe 30+ occasions over the last three years.

In my experience, Americans are naturally hospitable and friendly folk. My impression of the people I've met with has been overwhelmingly positive and would not be influenced by the sometimes questionable actions of your executive.

An aspect of the society which discomfits me is that many 'ordinary' Americans seem to lack the ability to engage in a critical analysis with regard to how the US interacts with the wider world, how the country compares to others when it comes to genuine freedoms and standard of living and how an all encompassing and pervasive patriotism may be a weakness as much as it is a strength.

southsiderosie · 14-03-2011 11:51PM

liah wrote: »

Lots of them do, yeah, or so I've noticed while gaming with them or running into them in town and chatting, something to do with the health care thing I think. Of course it's not all of them (I've plenty of friends from the States) but it's a pretty pervading sentiment in some parts for some reason. They think we're pathetic socialist commies or some other nonsense.

Hm - that's kind of a testament to your country more than anything else: Canada is an obvious example of it being possible to have sane banking regulations and universal health care without becoming a communist totalitarian hell-hole. You guys are like the anti-Fox News. No wonder some Americans hate you? :rolleyes::p

14-03-2011 11:54PM

I've never been to the US but the majority of Americans I've dealt with have been fine. Most are genuinely curious about Ireland and I've no problem answering whatever questions they've got. I once spent a train journey from Cork to Dublin talking to two girls from New Jersey and Ohio who were both very friendly and chatty.

I also have an online friend from London, Kentucky, have known her for 8 years now. While we've never met face-to-face she's like a pen-pal to me and we'd both see each other as friends. Some of her views, especially religious ones, are a bit severe but we get on in every other way so it's not something I'd lose sleep over.

I've had the odd stereotypical occasion, such as one person not knowing where Dublin was, but it's probably as much of a stereotype as us being red-headed drunks.

Millicent · 14-03-2011 11:54PM

HoneyRyder wrote: »

As opposed to no-one Millicent. The question was about Americans and so was my answer.

Ah c'mon, don't be getting offended. I was only messing. But seriously, my point was that it's hard to judge the Americans for that trait, given the amount of navel-gazing Irish threads posted here. There has to be at least one "what does the world think of us" thread here once a week.

Eve_Dublin · 14-03-2011 11:55PM

I've lived and worked in the States for the auld J1 and I've visited and spent a lot of time there...have visited 11 times in total. My ex was American and we went out for over 2 years. My sister lives there and is raising a family in NJ. My brother has been living there for over 17 years (California) and is raising a family there now. My other sister is married to one and they lived and worked there (they live in Ireland now). My grandfather left Ireland during the Civil War and opened a bar in New York. I have a huge amount of cousins, aunties and uncles over there as well.

It's fair to say I have some links with the States.

What do I think of America and it's people?

1) People there are very friendly, sometimes unnervingly friendly and I have a hard time time keeping up sometimes with the level of friendliness expected of me at the initial stages.

2) People are probably as ignorant as any nation BUT they've no problem articulating their opinions and asking questions OUT LOUD (sometimes a little too loudly). They have no sense of shame or at least a lot less than most Europeans. I think we pretend to know more than we do whereas an American wouldn't pretend. This gives the wrong impression.

3)My sense of humour is lost on most Americans I meet.

4) They're light-weights when it comes to drinking.

5) They like to party.

6) America is the centre of most Americans' universe as is Ireland for me...only once again, they're more vocal about it....this once again gives the wrong impression.

7) I don't like the food.

8) I like Americans.

9) Americans think we care more about their country than we do in reality. Just like the Irish.

10) I like your president for the first time in my life.

foxinsox · 14-03-2011 11:57PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'm in America right now.

4th Avenue, East Orange, New Jersey, to be precise.

With Google streetview, you can go anywhere.

50 states and you pick New Jersey?

You might as well head to Delaware now while you're tripping!:P

liah · 14-03-2011 11:57PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Hm - that's kind of a testament to your country more than anything else: Canada is an obvious example of it being possible to have sane banking regulations and universal health care without becoming a communist totalitarian hell-hole. You guys are like the anti-Fox News. No wonder some Americans hate you? :rolleyes::p

I suppose. I just mean that we keep pretty much to ourselves and are largely inoffensive, yet loads of Americans don't like us, even though we haven't ever really done anything.. about anything.. ever :pac: Just a bit odd, I guess!

HoneyRyder · 14-03-2011 11:58PM

Millicent wrote: »

Ah c'mon, don't be getting offended. I was only messing. But seriously, my point was that it's hard to judge the Americans for that trait, given the amount of navel-gazing Irish ones posted here. There has to be at least one "what does the world think of us" thread here once a week.

I'm not offended

I'm just not sure why you're directing your Irish observations towards me when I've said nothing to the contrary.

starbelgrade · 15-03-2011 12:01AM

The poll is flawed in that it only asks if people have been to the US without taking into account their views on America & Americans.

There's no corelation therefor between people's experiences of the US or lack of & their views on America / Americans.

It's also quite possible that someone who has never been to the States has less of a warped view on the place than someone who has been.

FTGFOP · 15-03-2011 12:04AM

liah wrote: »

I suppose. I just mean that we keep pretty much to ourselves and are largely inoffensive, yet loads of Americans don't like us, even though we haven't ever really done anything.. about anything.. ever :pac: Just a bit odd, I guess!

Maybe you've just been running into a lot of Republicans? Canada = Some kind of Commie state.

Millicent · 15-03-2011 12:07AM

HoneyRyder wrote: »

I'm not offended I'm just not sure why you're directing your Irish observations towards me when I've said nothing to the contrary.

I just thought it was funny that you said that Americans seem to care too much about what people think about them, when after posting on Boards this last while, I've come to realise that the same can be said for a lot of Irish people. I just thought it was funny.

Millicent · 15-03-2011 12:11AM

Sitec wrote: »

I wouldn't go judging a nation by whats written on a forum in fairness!

Pinch of salt etc...

Ah, I don't really. If I judged life by what goes on in AH, I'd be afraid to leave the house in case a dole-stealing miscreant ate the swan the English robbed from me first.

fabbydabby · 15-03-2011 12:11AM

Ive been to the USA a few times and I liked it there. I have also shared accomodation with several americans over the years.

The majority I met were friendly, polite people , but many of them don't really know what's going on in the world outside of America.

It's amazing how everything is just... bigger over there. I think myself this stems from the days when there was as much land as you could take, all you had to do was kill off a few natives and it was yours. They just got used to livin large yo.

southsiderosie · 15-03-2011 12:12AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

The poll is flawed in that it only asks if people have been to the US without taking into account their views on America & Americans.

There's no corelation therefor between people's experiences of the US or lack of & their views on America / Americans.

It's also quite possible that someone who has never been to the States has less of a warped view on the place than someone who has been.

Yeah, but I didn't want the poll to be too big - I figured people could write up their experiences in the thread if they felt so inclined. As it is, polls are a bit of a blunt instrument; even if there were options, what would they be ,"Americans are sound/mental/meh" across all of the options?

Eve_Dublin · 15-03-2011 12:20AM

Millicent wrote: »

I just thought it was funny that you said that Americans seem to care too much about what people think about them, when after posting on Boards this last while, I've come to realise that the same can be said for a lot of Irish people. I just thought it was funny.

I think the interest we have in other people's opinions of us stems from different places though. Ours might come from an innate insecurity we have about ourselves and wanting the approval of others whereas the Americans' interest might come from a desire for confirmation in what they already believe about themselves (that they "kick ass"). I've never met more self-confident people in all my life. I think the Irish might be the polar opposite. I'm envious of that trait.

Millicent · 15-03-2011 12:26AM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I think the interest we have in other people's opinions of us stems from different places though. Ours might come from an innate insecurity we have about ourselves and wanting the approval of others whereas the Americans' interest might come from a desire for confirmation in what they already believe about themselves (that they "kick ass"). I've never met more self-confident people in all my life. I think the Irish might be the polar opposite. I'm envious of that trait.

That's an interesting point, actually, because I too have longed for that self-confidence. I have noticed it from speaking to a lot of Americans across a variety of fora and am always amazed at the confidence and utter, unshakable self-belief some of them have.

It annoys me as well as impresses me, in equal measures, because I do find it frustrating that a person with that level of self-belief and even a sliver of skill will get far ahead of someone who is massively talented but can't sell themselves in the same way.

FTGFOP · 15-03-2011 12:29AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I have to ask because I am currently living in Boston.

God hates me.

*there there* Soon you will learn how to pronounce Chowder correctly and it will all seem worth it.

southsiderosie · 15-03-2011 12:31AM

Millicent wrote: »

Is there anyone you do like? Jaysus.

I've only been to Florida (and at Orlando at that) so my experience was not representative, given what a touristy area it is, but I found a lot of people extremely disingenuous. I have to say, the fake niceness was offputting. That said, there were a lot of genuinely nice folks too.

Haha, there is this weird "Children of the Corn" aspect to Orlando - everyone in the service industry is weirdly bland and nice, but it can seem slightly sinister. I blame Disney.

Seaneh · 15-03-2011 12:41AM

OP.

I quite like the U.S. I especially like the northwest, Portland is a great little (still bigger than Dublin) city.
I also have a fondness for the south. Georgia in particular. I find people in Atlanta, Savannah and the rest of the state to be some of the friendliest and sincere I have ever met.
this summer I am going to a 12 day training camp in GA. And then going on a
11 month voluntarily trip
with an American charity to some of the poorest places in the world.
All going well I will then move to the U.S. Fulltime for work and to study part time.

In short, I quite like America and Americans.

Not all Irish people are mindless 'americans are fat and stupid' types.

Millicent · 15-03-2011 12:41AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Haha, there is this weird "Children of the Corn" aspect to Orlando - everyone in the service industry is weirdly bland and nice, but it can seem slightly sinister. I blame Disney.

Hahaha! It is really sinister and Children of the Corn sums it up! :pac: :pac: :pac:

Disney may have something to do with it; I think as well, the fact that everyone you encounter seems to be in the service or retail industry compounds the sensation. You can almost feel them sizing your tipping habits up while they're at once saccharine sweet and disarmingly standoffish. It's very weird.

Eve_Dublin · 15-03-2011 12:41AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Haha, there is this weird "Children of the Corn" aspect to Orlando - everyone in the service industry is weirdly bland and nice, but it can seem slightly sinister. I blame Disney.

God I have to say I found that with a lot of people in the service industry over there generally, even myself for a time. I worked as a waitress for a Summer and was expected to do the whole, "I'm Eve_Dublin and I'll be your server for today!" (followed by a cheesy grin) poo-poo. I made stupidly big tips though, so there was no complaints from me. I presume a lot of people who work in clothes shops etc. work on commission though. It makes sense. Still, if you're not used to it, it can be incredibly irritating.

Millicent · 15-03-2011 12:44AM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

God I have to say I found that with a lot of people in the service industry over there generally, even myself for a time. I worked as a waitress for a Summer and was expected to do the whole, "I'm Eve_Dublin and I'll be your server for today!" (followed by a cheesy grin) poo-poo. I made stupidly big tips though, so there was no complaints from me. I presume a lot of people who work in clothes shops etc. work on commission though. It makes sense. Still, if you're not used to it, it can be incredibly irritating.

It wasn't that I found it irritating -- I genuinely found it deeply unsettling. There was no warmth to most of the friendliness and it was incredibly robotic or something. They didn't seem to respond to warmth from others either. Come to think of it, "Stepford Wives Waiting Staff" would probably sum it up a lot better!

Eve_Dublin · 15-03-2011 12:51AM

Remember to always tip an American waiter/waitress. One of the girls I worked with was as nice as American pie to a table of customers one time 'till they left her a handful of loose change as a tip....and she grabbed it and threw it in their faces!!!

We made 2 dollars an hour (which I didn't receive in the end), so tips were our bread and butter. People expect that level of service there or else they won't tip hence the reason it might become robotic after a while.

starbelgrade · 15-03-2011 12:58AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Yeah, but I didn't want the poll to be too big - I figured people could write up their experiences in the thread if they felt so inclined. As it is, polls are a bit of a blunt instrument; even if there were options, what would they be ,"Americans are sound/mental/meh" across all of the options?

True enough!

My own experience is that I've never been to the US. Wouldn't mind visiting New York, but it wouldn't be in my Top 10 places to visit.

No problem with Americans though. Same as every country really - I've met some who are sound, some who aren't, some who were thickos, some who were intelligent & wickedly funny.

In general, they do tend to be a bit more vocal than the Irish, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

And then there's the one's who talk for five minutes when a short sentence would have sufficed for the amount of useful information given.

Millicent · 15-03-2011 01:02AM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Remember to always tip an American waiter/waitress. One of the girls I worked with was as nice as American pie to a table of customers one time 'till they left her a handful of loose change as a tip....and she grabbed it and threw it in their faces!!!

We made 2 dollars an hour (which I didn't receive in the end), so tips were our bread and butter. People expect that level of service there or else they won't tip hence the reason it might become robotic after a while.

Oh, I was definitely a good tipper -- had plenty of rows with my family who were of the "feck it, we don't need to be tipping everybody" mentality while there. Still and all, it stuck in my throat with some of them who it kind of felt like you were on a conveyor belt with it. No warmth or humanity at all to them as they spoke to you. It was kind of disturbing.

And hahaha at your friend! If she were serving people who were used to the custom, I'd say they well deserved it. God love them though if they didn't!

southsiderosie · 15-03-2011 03:00AM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I think the interest we have in other people's opinions of us stems from different places though. Ours might come from an innate insecurity we have about ourselves and wanting the approval of others whereas the Americans' interest might come from a desire for confirmation in what they already believe about themselves (that they "kick ass"). I've never met more self-confident people in all my life. I think the Irish might be the polar opposite. I'm envious of that trait.

Millicent wrote: »

That's an interesting point, actually, because I too have longed for that self-confidence. I have noticed it from speaking to a lot of Americans across a variety of fora and am always amazed at the confidence and utter, unshakable self-belief some of them have.

It annoys me as well as impresses me, in equal measures, because I do find it frustrating that a person with that level of self-belief and even a sliver of skill will get far ahead of someone who is massively talented but can't sell themselves in the same way.

Well, we are the land of "everyone is special". Perhaps we could use a little bit less of that!

But I also think there are strong cultural norms here of "if you believe it, you can achieve it". Sometimes this is delusional, but it may also explain why we are more entrepreneurial and less risk-averse than a lot of other nationalities.

Also, I wonder how much of this confidence is due to the fact that we are a nation built on immigration, and the kind of people who would willingly leave their home country behind for something totally new and foreign are disproportionally self-confident risk-takers. Historically, a lot of American entrepreneurs were born outside of the US.

However, there is a definite downside in that I think this explains in part why we have such threadbare social safety nets: if the guiding mantra is "if you believe enough and work hard enough you can do or be whatever you want", then lack of achievement or success is chalked up to personal failing or laziness, not a grossly unequal or unfair system. And unfortunately, when people have "made it" they often chalk it up to the fact that they are really smart, or special, or have worked particularly hard, rather than the fact that they were lucky enough to live in a good school district, or that their parents have good alumni or business networks. To use a baseball metaphor, there are a lot of Americans who were born on third base, but who think they have hit a triple.

I guess at the end of the day there are positives and negatives to this kind of thinking. I see it as a positive in that Americans are quite civic minded, and really believe they can change things through volunteering and civic action; in contrast, I was shocked that there was almost no public mobilization in Ireland in response to the government's austerity measures and the bank guarantees. I think we have more of a sense of efficacy than the Irish, and although we sometimes end up with looney tunes in action, I think that is healthier for democracy in the long run.

Finally, I think the American full steam ahead approach makes dating SO MUCH EASIER - I don't think I will ever understand Irish mating rituals! When I lived in Dublin, I felt like a brazen hussy. :P

dashboard_hula · 15-03-2011 03:15AM

My other half was raised in the US and lived there for 25 years, and as he was only just home when I met him, I think I got a good eyeful of American until I sanded down some of the edges. One thing that stood out a country mile when I met him was that if he had something to say, by Christ he said it. To compare, in Ireland for instance if food was late coming out, one might mutter something to the other, or cast beady eyes around for the waitress. Americans (and I'm including the full family and friends package I got with him) will very, very clearly state "Where is my food? Why is it taking so long?", no matter how small or quiet the restaurant. Good or bad, it's just something I noticed.
Following on from that, when Americans want something done, they want it done NOW. There is no point explaining that Billy the electrician won't be free until Tuesday because he has another job on. Either throw him some more money, or hire someone else. The fact that Billy is a distant relation, always does that kind of work and usually does it for half nothing has no meaning.

On the plus side (ah there is one, he's a dote really), I feel that Americans who come from the melting pot and don't have a clear lineage like the Irish do feel genuinely and unspitefully envious that we can trace our heritage back through 4 or 5 generations, mostly because it's spread across 20 square miles and 2 parishes.
Finally, and this isn't just the boyfriend, this is the US troops, students, backpackers and miscellaneous I've come across in my own travels, you will never find a politer bunch if they've been raised halfway right - all opened doors and "Ma'am" and courteousness.

Although I still maintain the country is full of f*cking nutcases, especially in the South and Midwest. Georgia recently introduced a bill holding women who miscarry accountable under the law unless it can be proven medically that she had "no hand in it". Seriously. wtf.

Where do you get off...

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