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Pennant seeks ROI Call-up

135

Comments

  • #62
    smokedeels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Says you. If you are happy for the national side to be full of foreigners who don't really want to be there

    They wouldn't declare if they "didn't want to be there"
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Trapp is just going to select non-Irish talent?

    Trapp isn't Irish - he's doing his job; to make the Irish National Team as successful as possible with the players he has available.


  • #63
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Orizio wrote: »
    Nationalist nonsense. Soccer is a truly international and progressive sport that should not be held back by xenophobic and small-minded thoughts of nationality when choosing players for one's national team. Rather we should judge these things completely on talent, and Jermaine is far more talented then 99% of the current Irish squad. Let him play.

    Ehhh, do you want to read back that to yourself?

    Nationality shouldn't be a criteria when picking players for national sides?

    Is that not what club football is?


  • #64
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    smokedeels wrote: »
    They wouldn't declare if they "didn't want to be there"



    Trapp isn't Irish - he's doing his job; to make the Irish National Team as successful as possible with the players he has available.

    Im also amazed that ONYD seems capable of seeing into the mind's eye of these players and speaking for them in terms of their attitudes towards our national team. Sorry, but there is no evidence that they dont want to be here. He is making a baseless assumption.


  • #65
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Ehhh, do you want to read back that to yourself?

    Nationality shouldn't be a criteria when picking players for national sides?

    Is that not what club football is?

    In fairness he did qualify his use of the word "Nationality", witht he words "small minded" and "xenophobic"


  • #66
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,372 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    The granny rule is a joke anyway. If you have Irish parents then fair enough, I can fully understand how you'd feel Irish (or at least somewhat Irish) and would have a right to represent the Irish national team should you want to.

    One of my parents is Welsh and I've always felt partially Welsh. However if one of my grandparents happened to be English, French, etc. I wouldn't give a toss. I'd have no interest in representing that nation other than to serve my own goals.


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  • #67
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I didn't realise the leprechaun suit and accepting eligible players went hand in hand.

    No, but their is an element of 'the craic' about a lot of the posts. The team should mean something, represent the country and inspire the kids to achieve that standard.

    Kevin Doyle of Jermaine Pennant? Which would we want our kids to aspire to be? A kid who worked his way up the LoI chain and got a big move overseas where he is considered a model pro or a spoilt brat who leaves Ferrari's in airport carparks and declares for another country at 28?
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    So you'll accept foreign players to the national league at the expense of someone in a youth team but shout down an eligible player wanting to represent the national side for the same reason.

    Double standards.

    You have had your arse handed to you on this. Gary Twigg was bought because we have no young players of the standard he is. That is what clubs do. Fill talent gaps with purchases. ITs part of the global nature of the game.

    International sides really aren't supposed to 'purchase' talent from overseas. They are supposed to develop and nurture it. And ironically, we are doing that better than we ever have before. And when we finally are producing players at home good enough to compete with the best, Trapp regresses to the granny rule. With dross like Greene and Westwood as well.

    I know its a cliche, and I know its old fashioned, but this kind of nonsense fundamentally cheapens the jersey and what it should represent.


  • #68
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Im also amazed that ONYD seems capable of seeing into the mind's eye of these players and speaking for them in terms of their attitudes towards our national team. Sorry, but there is no evidence that they dont want to be here. He is making a baseless assumption.

    How is it baseless? They guy said he was interested in Ireland because at 28 he has realised that England won't come calling.

    No-one is disputing its his plan B. The question is should we swallow that and accept him or not.


  • #69
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Sir Gallagher wrote: »
    What a strange post. If that's your logic there's no point at all in having national teams?

    Well pretty much exactly. Soccer needs to lead the way - we live in a truly international world in which culture, tradition and beliefs of all peoples intermingle almost constantly, a world in which antiquated ideas like 'nationality' and 'patriotism' are superficial and little more then excuses to bash 'foreigners'.

    As such, teams based around national lines are superficial and increasingly at odds with the world around us. Ideally we should get rid of naitonal teams altogether; but as some people are not progressive enough for this quite yet, although I do believe the highly educated soccer masses will accept and agree with my argument eventually, we should base 'national' team choices completely on talent and enthusiasm to dilute the backwards nationalist element.


  • #70
    Jayob10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    Royale with Cheese wrote: »
    The granny rule is a joke anyway. If you have Irish parents then fair enough, I can fully understand how you'd feel Irish (or at least somewhat Irish) and would have a right to represent the Irish national team should you want to.

    One of my parents is Welsh and I've always felt partially Welsh. However if one of my grandparents happened to be English, French, etc. I wouldn't give a toss. I'd have no interest in representing that nation other than to serve my own goals.


    Thats good for you then isn't it. I feel entirely different in relation to my grandparents nationality.

    My view on this is that if a player improves our team or would be an addition to our squad then I have no problem. Technically they are perfectly entitled to represent us. A manager will get a look at players within the set up and if a "plastic paddy" has the wrong attitude then they will not last long in our set up.

    Players like O'Hara and Pennant would definately improve our squad. Pennant is a vastly superior player to Liam Lawrence for example, may not have a better attitude and as I said before he would be weeded out if that was the case. Nothing wrong with a call up and a cap for him to have a look.
    Lets be clear about it here, Lawrence is only playing for Ireland because he knew his level and we were his level as opposed to England where he hadn't a snowballs chance in hell.

    Aldo was at oxford united when he got called up, he had damn all ties to ireland bar a grandmother in the midlands where he has never been to visit. Don't kid yourself that some of these guys feel more loyalty to us, circumstances at the time dictated their decision to play for us.
    Matt Holland is another, declared for us late and never let us down, was a tremendous addition. There are benefits of guys in that age bracket declaring late in that by that stage they are usually seasoned and experienced pros.

    I'd explore everyone of these granny rule options, make enquiries but never chase someone. Make them aware of their options and if they declare (which Pennant has done on his own accord) then we should use these options. Hell, even if it means capping a guy once and if things don't work out then no harm done.

    Keith Fahey's name keeps popping up, my response to this is that if Fahey is a better player than any of these blow in's then he will play. If not then tough, but we will have a better team for it.


  • #71
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    How is it baseless? They guy said he was interested in Ireland because at 28 he has realised that England won't come calling.

    No-one is disputing its his plan B. The question is should we swallow that and accept him or not.

    How can you say he doesnt want to be here ? Are you Pennant ? Can you speak for him ?

    No, you are simply drawing inferences about his mindset. Either way, he clearly wants to be here more then the likes of Ireland. Plus, you cant be waffling on about cheapening the jersey, when those who have cheapened it the most are born and bred Irishmen.


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  • #72
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Orizio wrote: »
    Well pretty much exactly. Soccer needs to lead the way - we live in a truly international world in which culture, tradition and beliefs of all peoples intermingle almost constantly, a world in which antiquated ideas like 'nationality' and 'patriotism' are superficial and little more then excuses to bash 'foreigners'.

    As such, teams based around national lines are superficial and increasingly at odds with the world around us. Ideally we should get rid of naitonal teams altogether; but as some people are not progressive enough for this quite yet, although I do believe the highly educated soccer masses will accept and agree my argument eventually, we should base national team choices completely on talent and enthusiasm.

    They are called clubs. The best talent goes to the biggest clubs for the most money.

    Ironically, more integration has happened over international football than most other things in the world. People come back from world cups with email addresses and phone numbers from the 4 corners of the globe.

    Although, its clear your rant is a pop at football from one of our rugby betters. Do you want the 6 nations abolished? Didn't think so.


  • #73
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Het-Field wrote: »
    How can you say he doesnt want to be here ? Are you Pennant ? Can you speak for him ?

    No, you are simply drawing inferences about his mindset. Either way, he clearly wants to be here more then the likes of Ireland. Plus, you cant be waffling on about cheapening the jersey, when those who have cheapened it the most are born and bred Irishmen.

    Stephen Ireland is a mutant. He isn't the benchmark for anything.

    Can I suggest you go away and read the actual article. When you have done that, let me know if you think that he has always wanted to play for us, or sees this as a good carreer move as he heads to the twilight of his playing days.

    Only upside to this is that I might find an abandoned supercar somewhere in town.


  • #74
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

    Rabble, rabble, dey tuk ower jerbs/squad spot rabble rabble, patriot, rabble, ole ole, rabble rabble, barstool, rabble LOI, rabble rabble rabble, etc.





    Another quality rant from ohfeckhesoffagain...


  • #75
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Seaneh wrote: »
    Another quality rant from ohfeckhesoffagain...

    And you are back again with your usual empty post.

    Grownups are talking. If you have nothing to add. Etc. You know the script, you hear it a couple of times a week.


  • #76
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Stephen Ireland is a mutant. He isn't the benchmark for anything.

    Can I suggest you go away and read the actual article. When you have done that, let me know if you think that he has always wanted to play for us, or sees this as a good carreer move as he heads to the twilight of his playing days.

    Only upside to this is that I might find an abandoned supercar somewhere in town.

    Sorry. You cannot call Ireland a "mutant" and claim he is not a benchmark for anything. That is a cop-out of the highest order. Is Ireland not one of those who prefers to denegrade the jersey over actually engaging with it, and utilising his great talent for the benefit of the Irish nation ?

    I read the article, I am the OP. I would also point that I am, and have stated that I am not keen on his rhetoric. But where does it say that he doesnt want to be here ?


  • #77
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    They are called clubs. The best talent goes to the biggest clubs for the most money.

    Exactly - clubs are the ideal mutli-cultural entities to bring soccer into a truly multi-cultural world. National teams are a blight on the soccer landscape by comparison and simply drag soccer's otherwise impeccable reputation down through nationalist and backwards sentiment.
    Ironically, more integration has happened over international football than most other things in the world. People come back from world cups with email addresses and phone numbers from the 4 corners of the globe.

    They can and do get the exact same things from international club competitions. For example, replace the world cup with a world club cup, the best clubs in the world playing against each other. One keeps the international element without the underlying and ugly national sentiment.
    Although, its clear your rant is a pop at football from one of our rugby betters. Do you want the 6 nations abolished? Didn't think so.

    Random.


  • #78
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Sorry. You cannot call Ireland a "mutant" and claim he is not a benchmark for anything. That is a cop-out of the highest order. Is Ireland not one of those who prefers to denegrade the jersey over actually engaging with it, and utilising his great talent for the benefit of the Irish nation ?

    I don't disagree with your substantive. There are a couple of high profile Corkies who have let us down over the years. I just don't see the relevence to whether we should let anyone who is eligible play regardless of whether they are actually Irish or fit in to the FAI strategy.
    Het-Field wrote: »
    I read the article, I am the OP. I would also point that I am, and have stated that I am not keen on his rhetoric. But where does it say that he doesnt want to be here ?

    Maybe I should tighten up the language. He does, NOW, want to play. But that is a decision he has taken for all the wrong reasons and someone somewhere should say no on principal.

    If you have 20 U21 caps for anothe country and held out till you were 28 for a full cap, you clearly are using us for what you can get. I thought we left that behind in the 80's


  • #79
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    No, but their is an element of 'the craic' about a lot of the posts. The team should mean something, represent the country and inspire the kids to achieve that standard.

    Kevin Doyle of Jermaine Pennant? Which would we want our kids to aspire to be? A kid who worked his way up the LoI chain and got a big move overseas where he is considered a model pro or a spoilt brat who leaves Ferrari's in airport carparks and declares for another country at 28?

    You're an idealist not a realist. It's not without its charm admittedly but that's not the way of the world.

    Did Portugal turn down Deco? Italy tell Camoranesi to feck off?
    You have had your arse handed to you on this. Gary Twigg was bought because we have no young players of the standard he is. That is what clubs do. Fill talent gaps with purchases. ITs part of the global nature of the game.

    I don't se how I've had my arse handed to me in any way shape or form. Both scenarios curb the development of youngsters. Sure it's been said often enough about that league across the water.

    And the global nature of the international game is to pick the best players possible within the rules.
    International sides really aren't supposed to 'purchase' talent from overseas. They are supposed to develop and nurture it. And ironically, we are doing that better than we ever have before. And when we finally are producing players at home good enough to compete with the best, Trapp regresses to the granny rule. With dross like Greene and Westwood as well.

    I know its a cliche, and I know its old fashioned, but this kind of nonsense fundamentally cheapens the jersey and what it should represent.

    It is a cliche and it is old fashioned. It's also ultimately irrelevant under the current rules (whether they are right or wrong is a seperate issue). Until they change Ireland should be playing the best players available to them whether they were conceived in the centre circle of Dalyer or otherwise.


  • #80
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Orizio wrote: »
    Exactly - clubs are the ideal mutli-cultural entities to bring soccer into a truly multi-cultural world. National teams are a blight on the soccer landscape by comparison and simply drag soccer's otherwise impeccable reputation down through nationalist and backwards sentiment.

    How are national teams a blight? How is the sentiment at international football any better or worse than at club football?
    Orizio wrote: »
    They can and do get the exact same things from international club competitions. For example, replace the world cup with a world club cup, the best clubs in the world playing against each other. One keeps the international element without the underlying and ugly national sentiment.

    You do then understand that Ireland will have nothing in a football sense then. What good does that do us? Its embarrasing enough having most Irish football fans cheering for foreign clubs. Now those foreign clubs will become a de facto Irish national side? Fcuk that.
    Orizio wrote: »
    Random.

    No its not. Do you abolish all international events? Rugby, chess, the eurovision?


  • #81
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    I don't disagree with your substantive. There are a couple of high profile Corkies who have let us down over the years. I just don't see the relevence to whether we should let anyone who is eligible play regardless of whether they are actually Irish or fit in to the FAI strategy.



    Maybe I should tighten up the language. He does, NOW, want to play. But that is a decision he has taken for all the wrong reasons and someone somewhere should say no on principal.

    If you have 20 U21 caps for anothe country and held out till you were 28 for a full cap, you clearly are using us for what you can get. I thought we left that behind in the 80's[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but you are still seeking to speak for the player. His motives are really irrelevant. If he comes and plays for Ireland ala Houghton/Cascarino then he is contributing to the Irish nation, and nationalist sentiments towards the soccer team will increase. The Irish team suffered from the absence of Keane, and is not as good with Stephen Ireland. I agree that we have had some lame-duck "Irishmen", but I believe your gripe is, and should really be with lame-duck players.

    Equally, if he is recognised as Irish, then who are we to dictate as to what he feels of his "Irishness" ?


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  • #82
    tonycascarino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭tonycascarino


    slingerz wrote: »
    In recent days it seems as if Ireland are pursuing the granny rule again with Stearman and now Pennant seemingly interested.

    ...About time too.


  • #83
    Rob113
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Rob113


    He has a desire to play international football. Is practically begging for a call up. He wants to play in a major tournament and will more than likely play out if his skin to get us there. Win - win for us and him.


  • #84
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    I've heard it all.


    With Jack and Theo now looking like England regulars, I will be taking an interest in International Football here again, so I would like to formally announce that I am considering declaring for England though with Ramsey now back playing also I might consider Wales. I hope to make a decision by the end of the season and will make the announcement on here then. Not joking either ;)


  • #85
    Sir Gallagher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭Sir Gallagher


    Orizio wrote: »
    Well pretty much exactly. Soccer needs to lead the way - we live in a truly international world in which culture, tradition and beliefs of all peoples intermingle almost constantly, a world in which antiquated ideas like 'nationality' and 'patriotism' are superficial and little more then excuses to bash 'foreigners'.

    As such, teams based around national lines are superficial and increasingly at odds with the world around us. Ideally we should get rid of naitonal teams altogether; but as some people are not progressive enough for this quite yet, although I do believe the highly educated soccer masses will accept and agree with my argument eventually, we should base 'national' team choices completely on talent and enthusiasm to dilute the backwards nationalist element.

    I think you're trying to portray international football in a very sinister way here, there's not much difference between national and club football it's sport and it's tribal in it's very nature.


  • #86
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,944 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    Tbf that teams needs all the decent players it can get. Pennant isnt anything special but he has some pace and can cross the ball so why not. McGeady on the left wing and Pennant on the right. Already looks better than what we have.
    Of course, if we do have a talented right winger already I wouldnt put pennant first choice.


  • #87
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Sorry, but you are still seeking to speak for the player. His motives are really irrelevant. If he comes and plays for Ireland ala Houghton/Cascarino then he is contributing to the Irish nation, and nationalist sentiments towards the soccer team will increase. The Irish team suffered from the absence of Keane, and is not as good with Stephen Ireland. I agree that we have had some lame-duck "Irishmen", but I believe your gripe is, and should really be with lame-duck players.

    Equally, if he is recognised as Irish, then who are we to dictate as to what he feels of his "Irishness" ?

    My gripe is with the regression in the national team back to the 80's when any cabbage with an Irish granny, usually one he was unaware of, was selected over the locals. My bigger gripe is with the culture of the national team fans who accept this, and indeed often see it as a good thing.

    Maybe I am an idealist who would prefer to see 11 Irishmen or Irishmen born overseas represent the country than 11 brits who failed to make the grade elswhere and fancied a crack at plan b or c. But I swallowed it before when we had a choice between losing with the locals or winning with the imports.

    But I find it VERY hard to believe that Ireland is better off with Greene over Meyler, Westwood over Murphy etc. We have the home produced talent. Lets use it.


  • #88
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Yakult wrote: »
    Tbf that teams needs all the decent players it can get. Pennant isnt anything special but he has some pace and can cross the ball so why not. McGeady on the left wing and Pennant on the right. Already looks better than what we have.
    Of course, if we do have a talented right winger already I wouldnt put pennant first choice.

    I don't have an issue with Pennant playing but the argument you hear from some to put on the Green jersey all whatever country jersey is the greatest honor you have kind of goes out the window imo.


  • #89
    NeoKubrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭NeoKubrick


    Orizio wrote: »
    Well pretty much exactly. Soccer needs to lead the way - we live in a truly international world in which culture, tradition and beliefs of all peoples intermingle almost constantly, a world in which antiquated ideas like 'nationality' and 'patriotism' are superficial and little more then excuses to bash 'foreigners'.

    As such, teams based around national lines are superficial and increasingly at odds with the world around us. Ideally we should get rid of naitonal teams altogether; but as some people are not progressive enough for this quite yet, although I do believe the highly educated soccer masses will accept and agree with my argument eventually, we should base 'national' team choices completely on talent and enthusiasm to dilute the backwards nationalist element.
    Orizio wrote:
    Exactly - clubs are the ideal mutli-cultural entities to bring soccer into a truly multi-cultural world. National teams are a blight on the soccer landscape by comparison and simply drag soccer's otherwise impeccable reputation down through nationalist and backwards sentiment.

    Absolutely clueless. I'll ignore the ignorant claims that 'nationality' and 'patriotism' are "antiquated", because this isn't the forum to correct your ignorance on that subject.

    Clubs are not "ideal multi-cultural entities". First, that's an oxymoron: anything that separates an entity into entities is not ideal in the context of homogeneity. Second, the same energy that drives nationalism in football teams or miltary armies is the same energy that drives tribalism in club football. The difference is that one is at the national level and one, the local: same meaning but different labels. I used the word 'clueless' before because there is abundance evidence here in this forum of this tribalism. Here, read: Liverpool versus Manchester United match thread.


  • #90
    Jayob10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    My gripe is with the regression in the national team back to the 80's when any cabbage with an Irish granny, usually one he was unaware of, was selected over the locals. My bigger gripe is with the culture of the national team fans who accept this, and indeed often see it as a good thing.

    Maybe I am an idealist who would prefer to see 11 Irishmen or Irishmen born overseas represent the country than 11 brits who failed to make the grade elswhere and fancied a crack at plan b or c. But I swallowed it before when we had a choice between losing with the locals or winning with the imports.

    But I find it VERY hard to believe that Ireland is better off with Greene over Meyler, Westwood over Murphy etc. We have the home produced talent. Lets use it.

    I am all for using the granny rule, but this is where we differ my friend. Favouring the rule doesn't mean one favours Green over Meyler. Top Irish players will always play. Any tom, dick or harry can tell you Meyler is a significantly better player and he will be a key player in our future.

    Westwood on the other hand is a far better keeper than Murphy and that just a fact of life, hence he would play in goal for me.

    Its about picking the best players available, Westwood is eligible to play for us, he is a significant improvement on whats already on offer in that area (back up to Given) and I have no problem with that.

    Green is anohter story though, he is just not good enough.


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  • #91
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    My gripe is with the regression in the national team back to the 80's when any cabbage with an Irish granny, usually one he was unaware of, was selected over the locals. My bigger gripe is with the culture of the national team fans who accept this, and indeed often see it as a good thing.

    Maybe I am an idealist who would prefer to see 11 Irishmen or Irishmen born overseas represent the country than 11 brits who failed to make the grade elswhere and fancied a crack at plan b or c. But I swallowed it before when we had a choice between losing with the locals or winning with the imports.

    But I find it VERY hard to believe that Ireland is better off with Greene over Meyler, Westwood over Murphy etc. We have the home produced talent. Lets use it.

    In the 1980s/1990s Ireland qualified for a European Championship, and two World Cup Finals with a heavy Anglo-Irish influence. Hictorical commentators often refer to these events as watershed events, which sparked a real revivial in Irish pride, and a sustainable upswing in the nations political and economic fortunes. It may not have been a direct catalyst, but they were events, as a result of which, our national stock rose. If we continued on the losing path at that point, we would not have had the swell of pride which came as a result of those events. Would you prefer to display the Green Jersey to the whole world, or simply retain it for those who are born within defined borders, or have direct parental linkage to the nation-state ?

    With due respect, I wouldnt call you an idealist if you chose to lose with the locals as opposed winning with the imports. I would call you crazy. Globalisation, and the development of disporas mean that we cannot live in a form of "Anzac legend" whereby Irishness is defined by certain traits, and personalities. The Irish nation is rooted all over the world. The Granny Rule was a natural product of displacement amongst international communities. Many people are entitled to Irish passports, who have never set foot in the country. That is not the product of chance, or seeking nationality under false pretences. That is the product of deliberate displacement by their ancestors. Thus, we should not be trying to limit ourselves as to who is, and who is not Irish.

    It is easy use the likes of Paul Green, and Kieran Westwood as a stick to beat people like me with. And I agree that the likes of Green should not be in front of Keith Andrews and Darren Gibson. However, that is on a footballing basis. If Jamie O Hara was to declare for Ireland I would equally be calling for the dropping og Glenn Whelan, who is a far weaker player, and is a bit part player at Stoke City.

    I would lso warn against citing the likes of Meyler and Murphy. Meyler has been incapable of playing for Ireland due to a lengthy injury lay-off, while Murphy is an ordinary footballer, with questionable attitude.


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