Pennant seeks ROI Call-up

aidan24326 · 08-03-2011 12:59PM

Rooney10 wrote: »

I'd have no problem with anyone declaring for us through the grandparents route once they nail their colours to the mast early.

Wouldn't want them near the squad only because it becomes abundantly clear later in their career that they'll never get a call up for someone else.

Agree 100%. Pennant is basically saying 'I'm nowhere near good enough to play for England so maybe the Paddies would give me a game. I couldn't really give a flying fig about Ireland but I fancy going to a World Cup'.
And some of you still want him?

There's a big difference between him and say players like John Aldridge and Kevin Kilbane, who grew up in England, speak with English accents but always had strong ties to Ireland and would likely have considered themselves at least half Irish even when they were growing up.

Yes we need good players to strengthen the squad but not at the expense of whoring ourselves to every mercenary looking for an easy route into international football.

Xavi6 · 08-03-2011 01:01PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Scottish.

Are you now comparing a club signing a foreign player with a national team selecting foreign players?

Is that really the best you can do?

Yes I am. Twigg is taking the place of an Irish player in the Rovers side, just like Pennant would be in the national side.

random Brit x decides he won't make the England side so declares for Ireland,

That is the same as "random Brit x decides he won't make the Rangers side so moves to Shamrock Rovers"

As for...

No pride whatsoever.

If you were such a patriot you'd want an Irish only Rovers side as well.

pickarooney · 08-03-2011 01:01PM

What's mercenary about looking for a game in international football? Seems to me the mercenaries are the ones who bail on the international game to further their club careers.

The Muppet · 08-03-2011 01:04PM

I think he'd improve our squad, I'm not sure I'd want him though I suppose he's no different to many of the players we have played.

Het-Field · 08-03-2011 01:10PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This thread is demeaning.

Also sums up nicely why LoI fans look down on the Ole Ole brigade. No pride whatsoever.

Stephen Ireland, Roy Keane.

Case Closed.

OhNoYouDidn't · 08-03-2011 01:17PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yes I am. Twigg is taking the place of an Irish player in the Rovers side, just like Pennant would be in the national side.

That is the same as "random Brit x decides he won't make the Rangers side so moves to Shamrock Rovers"

As for...

If you were such a patriot you'd want an Irish only Rovers side as well.

And if you were a patriot you would want an all English Manchester City side.

Rovers, like all club sides, are under one obligation. To field the strongest side possible. Gary Twigg was brought in because he was the best available player.

Ireland, like all international sides, are under an additional constraint. The players must be Irish citizens with blood lineage to the country. By no benchmark is Pennant, or O'Hara, or whatever other English no-mark who found themselves in the EPL actually Irish. They may technically be eligible, but we are pushing the envelope very far, stopping the development of Irish players and alienating fans.

We did it under Charlton because we had to. We don't any more.

The_Kew_Tour · 08-03-2011 01:35PM

Het-Field wrote: »

Stephen Ireland, Roy Keane.

Case Closed.

You dont support any tean then do you?

Neil3030 · 08-03-2011 01:36PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But if the 'better homegrown players' (who never happened under Charlton by the way, it was Kerr that fixed that) can't get into the side because random Brit x decides he won't make the England side so declares for Ireland, what happens to your equation?

If a homegrown player is better than a 2nd/3rd generation player, than he will play ahead of him, surely?

gustavo · 08-03-2011 01:38PM

Rooney10 wrote: »

I'd have no problem with anyone declaring for us through the grandparents route once they nail their colours to the mast early.

Wouldn't want them near the squad only because it becomes abundantly clear later in their career that they'll never get a call up for someone else.

Sums up my attitude too really

Xavi6 · 08-03-2011 01:40PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And if you were a patriot you would want an all English Manchester City side.

Who said I was a partriot?

Rovers, like all club sides, are under one obligation. To field the strongest side possible. Gary Twigg was brought in because he was the best available player.

Same for Ireland imo

Ireland, like all international sides, are under an additional constraint. The players must be Irish citizens with blood lineage to the country. By no benchmark is Pennant, or O'Hara, or whatever other English no-mark who found themselves in the EPL actually Irish. They may technically be eligible, but we are pushing the envelope very far, stopping the development of Irish players and alienating fans.

We did it under Charlton because we had to. We don't any more.

We're playing by the rules to field the strongest side possible. Happy days.

stovelid · 08-03-2011 01:43PM

There is obviously a difference between 1st/2nd/3rd generation Irish only ever wanting to play for Ireland and somebody selecting as a back-up option when they don't make the grade for another nation.

For example, I was born to Irish parents in England and moved here at 11. If I was a footballer, I wouldn't dream of choosing England over Ireland and I think that's the difference between some of the players that have come in under the granny rule and people like Pennant.

OhNoYouDidn't · 08-03-2011 01:44PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

If a homegrown player is better than a 2nd/3rd generation player, than he will play ahead of him, surely?

You would like to think. But the easy option is to play a Pennant over a Fahey.

OhNoYouDidn't · 08-03-2011 01:48PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

We're playing by the rules to field the strongest side possible. Happy days.

Says you. If you are happy for the national side to be full of foreigners who don't really want to be there, but are technically available for selection, good for you. Dust off your leprechaun suit and bore the world with stories of how we are the best fans in the world (tm).

Some of us have a longer view about the development of the game, and journeymen who have no affiliation with Ireland stifle it. This puts the entire grassroots elite coaching under jeprody. Why will the FAI pay millions to coach the best young Irish talent if Trapp is just going to select non-Irish talent?

Neil3030 · 08-03-2011 01:48PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You would like to think. But the easy option is to play a Pennant over a Fahey.

If he is on better form, yes.

OhNoYouDidn't · 08-03-2011 01:54PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

If he is on better form, yes.

So what then happens to the Faheys of the world?

Do the FAI still pump resources into developing them? Or do they do what they did under Charlton and hire researchers over underage coaches?

Neil3030 · 08-03-2011 02:07PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So what then happens to the Faheys of the world?

Do the FAI still pump resources into developing them? Or do they do what they did under Charlton and hire researchers over underage coaches?

Personally I would do both, with more emphasis on developing our own players.

However the massive caveat here is the assumption the FAI can be trusted to do anything right.

Mister men · 08-03-2011 02:18PM

McGeady > Pennant

Lukker- · 08-03-2011 02:31PM

A useful player IMO.

parker kent · 08-03-2011 02:35PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yes I am. Twigg is taking the place of an Irish player in the Rovers side, just like Pennant would be in the national side.

That is the same as "random Brit x decides he won't make the Rangers side so moves to Shamrock Rovers"

As for...

If you were such a patriot you'd want an Irish only Rovers side as well.

That is a ridiculous argument. Seriously. It is not as if LOI teams are playing Twigg, Ndo etc in favour of Robbie Keane, Damien Duff etc. Anyway, it is not as if LOI teams are short of Irish players. But basically comparing a club team in football to an International team is foolish. It is a ridiculous argument.

I don't want Pennant near the Irish team because he obviously doesn't give a crap about Ireland. More importantly though, it flies in the face of the entire FAI youth drive over the past 20 years. Why should somebody like Fahey be ignored because an average English journeyman decides he wants to play international football? It would be a slap in the face for every Irish youth player for this to happen. I've no issue with James McCarthy, McGeady Kilbane etc who identify as Irish. But this crap should not happen.

eoin2nc · 08-03-2011 02:43PM

A player who is playing prem football weekly and who has started in a Champo league finally will defo improve our squad, Id give him a go if he has the right attitude

smokedeels · 08-03-2011 02:52PM

I don't rate him, but as others have pointed out he'd be a good player compared to what we have.

I understand he's making a career move and has no connection to Ireland but as a piece of business that could be mutually beneficial I don't see a problem.

Hank Scorpio · 08-03-2011 03:00PM

This wouldn't feel right imo

Orizio · 08-03-2011 03:03PM

doncarlos wrote: »

I'd rather have an Irish lad in there than someone with a loose connection to the country.

Nationalist nonsense. Soccer is a truly international and progressive sport that should not be held back by xenophobic and small-minded thoughts of nationality when choosing players for one's national team. Rather we should judge these things completely on talent, and Jermaine is far more talented then 99% of the current Irish squad. Let him play.

Het-Field · 08-03-2011 03:20PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You dont support any tean then do you?

Your location articulates your blind loyalty to players who have let Ireland down at some point or another.

I never supported Keane or McCarthy at that World Cup. However, Keane should have gritted his teeth, played for his country, and returned home with his complaints (which were certainly valid). However, he turned his back on his country on a point of principle. He was even given the opportunity to return, but failed to do so, leaving Ireland without its captain, most influential player, and with a 23 man squad.

Ireland is an unprofessional joker, who cant let sleeping dogs lie. The man has been out of the international scene for almost 4 years, yet he likes to revisit it to insult it, and denegrade it.

Of course I support the Irish team. But I see the wood from the trees. The argument advanced by some on this website is a claim that only Irish-men can be proud of playing international football while in the Green Jersey. It was discovered that Ray Houghton was eligible by accident, purely down to the "Granny Rule". He even claimed after his famous goal in Stuttgart that he wished he had done the same in a Scottish shirt. I dont think any Irish man would ever suggest that we would be better off without him, or that he never represented Ireland with pride.. The same applies to Andy Townsend. Aldridge was also the product of much investigation. Tony Cascarino even called himself a fraud. Either way, they all contributed to Irish footballing success. It is irrefutable evidence that even the "plastic Paddy" can play with pride.

Het-Field · 08-03-2011 03:22PM

stovelid wrote: »

There is obviously a difference between 1st/2nd/3rd generation Irish only ever wanting to play for Ireland and somebody selecting as a back-up option when they don't make the grade for another nation.

For example, I was born to Irish parents in England and moved here at 11. If I was a footballer, I wouldn't dream of choosing England over Ireland and I think that's the difference between some of the players that have come in under the granny rule and people like Pennant.

What is the difference between Pennant, and the likes of Townsend, Cascarino, Houghton and Aldridge ?

aidan24326 · 08-03-2011 03:23PM

Orizio wrote: »

Nationalist nonsense. Soccer is a truly international and progressive sport that should not be held back by xenophobic and small-minded thoughts of nationality when choosing players for one's national team. Rather we should judge these things completely on talent, and Jermaine is far more talented then 99% of the current Irish squad. Let him play.

That part in bold is wrong just for starters. He's a decent player but has done little to deserve that sort of over-the-top praise. He's better than some of what we have but that's all (and let's be honest that isn't in itself saying a lot).

And wanting the Irish squad to be populated with players who identify as Irish or at least partly Irish is not 'nationalist nonsense', it's the whole point of having a national team.

Bounty Hunter · 08-03-2011 03:25PM

Im not quite sure why but i did have an *ugh* moment when i read it was Pennant looking to get a call up even though I'd usually be in favour of if they are eligable/good enough they should get the call.

Ireland is clearly his second choice and I have to admit I dont like that in a potential Ireland player. If he was picked however I would have no problem with that as he is eligable, having Irish grandparents and has chosen to pursue getting a call personally while potentially being good enough to improve atleast the Irish squad.

I never understand the "plastic paddy" arguement for people not wanting the 2nd/3rd generation Irish internationals to get the call, because to put it simply thems are the rules. Maybe you think the rule should be only 1st generation Irish nationals should be eligable or something but as things stand we would simply be putting ourselves at a disadvantage if we didnt pick such players. Most other nations do so and it's normally like in Irelands case with English players involving nationalities that have long historical ties to the other country. Deco is Brazillian for example not portugese and many of the French stars that won world and euro honours for example were African iirc.

One thing that worries me about this though is that all these stories seem to be coming from sources outside of the FAI's own recuitment facets. (big surprise i know but) Dunne got Clark on board, many seem to think Stearman was influenced by his manager or some of his team mates, while O'Hara/Pennant seem to be bringing up the issue themselves via the media/agents.

SantryRed · 08-03-2011 03:27PM

Hate this thread. I hate people who say that because he didn't say he'd play for Ireland from 22/23 then he shouldn't be considered. That's because he was good enough to be near the England team at the time! Whereas fcuking Kilbane and the likes were never, ever going to be good enough for England. No difference whatsoever.

Xavi6 · 08-03-2011 03:33PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Says you. If you are happy for the national side to be full of foreigners who don't really want to be there, but are technically available for selection, good for you. Dust off your leprechaun suit and bore the world with stories of how we are the best fans in the world (tm).

I didn't realise the leprechaun suit and accepting eligible players went hand in hand.

Some of us have a longer view about the development of the game, and journeymen who have no affiliation with Ireland stifle it. This puts the entire grassroots elite coaching under jeprody. Why will the FAI pay millions to coach the best young Irish talent if Trapp is just going to select non-Irish talent?

So you'll accept foreign players to the national league at the expense of someone in a youth team but shout down an eligible player wanting to represent the national side for the same reason.

Double standards.

Sir Gallagher · 08-03-2011 03:39PM

Orizio wrote: »

Nationalist nonsense. Soccer is a truly international and progressive sport that should not be held back by xenophobic and small-minded thoughts of nationality when choosing players for one's national team. Rather we should judge these things completely on talent, and Jermaine is far more talented then 99% of the current Irish squad. Let him play.

What a strange post. If that's your logic there's no point at all in having national teams?

Pennant seeks ROI Call-up

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