Why do old radios have cities listed on the Dial?

Blisterman · 05-03-2011 10:07PM #1

Something I've always wondered when I see old radios. Along with the frequencies of stations, the dials contain the names of various (only European I think) cities.

Can anyone who remembers these fill me in on why that is?

BBDBB · 05-03-2011 10:19PM

I think its because that was the easiest way to identify where the broadcast was from when you tuned into that frequency

very dull and simple explanation

copacetic · 05-03-2011 10:21PM

in 'olden times' only large cities had large transmitters a acrosss the world and radios were expensive. You also couldn't received much if not near to tansmitter. The dials were printed up to show the few frequencies where you would get a radio station depending on where you were. Paris might have 3 stations and 3 transmitters and so would appear 3 times on your dial. Then the same radios could be sold worlwide with just power modifications.

It was common worldwide. See here:

http://www.indianaradios.com/Antique%20Radio%20Tuning%20Dials%20Gallery.htm

Bearhunter · 05-03-2011 10:40PM

And they all seemed so impossibly exotic and romantic - Paris, Luxembourg, Hilversum, Athlone...

icdg · 06-03-2011 11:51AM

Bearhunter wrote: »

And they all seemed so impossibly exotic and romantic - Paris, Luxembourg, Hilversum, Athlone...

LOL. Radio Éireann was actually called Radio Athlone for a few years. The name seemed to stick. As did both the names Radio Éireann and Telefís Éireann despite both stations being renamed RTÉ as long ago as 1966...

Bearhunter · 06-03-2011 08:52PM

My uncle always called RTE Athlone - "Stick on Athlone, there, there's a match on."

kitchens decks · 06-03-2011 11:19PM

Bearhunter wrote: »

My uncle always called RTE Athlone - "Stick on Athlone, there, there's a match on."

rte2 ... network2:cool:

Capt'n Midnight · 07-03-2011 12:20AM

FM is nearly line of site, but LW,MW,SW go much further so they had to agree frequencies internationally , which meant that frequencies didn't change all that much, eg: RTE now using the 252KHz that Atlantic used to use. That and the 198KHz of BBC Radio 4 are about all you will pickup in English on Long Wave without an external antenna.

You'll also see Cork as well as Athlone and maybe even 2RN if the radio is old enough

Mike 1972 · 07-03-2011 01:23AM

copacetic wrote: »

You also couldn't received much if not near to tansmitter

Au contraire

In the days when the dial was less overcrowded and there was less interference about and most people went to the trouble of putting up proper outdoor aerials it was possible to hear stations from further away (especially after dark) quite clearly.

As there was very few stations (many European countries only had one or two) some with very limited operating hours and conservative programming policies it was quite common for people to listen to foreign stations. The rarity of overseas travel and less knowledge of the outside world added to the facination. Language barriers werent as big a problem as one might imagine as one could still appreciate the music and many countries would broadcast news (of varying reliability) in different languages for propaganda reasons. In the more totaliterian parts of Europe radio was often the only way citizens could keep up with current events from the perspective of anyone other than their own governments.

For the first six decades (or so) of its existance radio was the internet of its day.

Only problem with marking cities (or transmitter locations) permanently on the dial was sometimes new stations appeared, old ones closed (or changed frequencies) and ocasionally there would be a major reshuffle (some collectors use the dial markings as a guide to determine the age of a set).

Nowadays listening to foreign radio is mostly the preserve of a hard core of interested enthusiasts.

07-03-2011 01:30AM

My dad has a Pye radio from the 1970s with the station names on the dial rather than the transmitter locations. So it says RTE around the 530 (metres) mark and several BBC stations listed, all of which are now gone from medium wave. I seem to remember it still said Paris on the LW band though. It also has FM stereo, albeit called VHF as it was more commonly known as then, but only goes up to 104 MHz.

Mike 1972 · 07-03-2011 07:20AM

Karsini wrote: »

It also has FM stereo, albeit called VHF as it was more commonly known as then, but only goes up to 104 MHz.

Some very early VHF/FM sets (particularly for the UK market) only went up to 100 or even less. A lot of (particularly car) radios made it over here from Germany with the band marked as "UKW" "U-FM" or just "U" and speaking of Germany onetime on a visit over there I noticed some old GDR (East German) era sets with part of the FM band missing. Possibly there were only Western Stations using the missing part ? Sets only going up to 104 were making it into Ireland well into the 1980's which was annoying as pirate stations tended to use the high end of the band.

Bearhunter · 07-03-2011 08:48PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

I noticed some old GDR (East German) era sets with part of the FM band missing. Possibly there were only Western Stations using the missing part ? Sets only going up to 104 were making it into Ireland well into the 1980's which was annoying as pirate stations tended to use the high end of the band.

And in Japan the FM waveband goes from 76-90, so you need a band expander to get anything above 90.

Mike 1972 · 07-03-2011 10:52PM

Bearhunter wrote: »

And in Japan the FM waveband goes from 76-90, so you need a band expander to get anything above 90.

Many of the former Eastern Bloc countries (GDR and Yugoslavia being exceptions) used 65-74 MHz for FM most of them have switched to the standard (Western) band now.

Getting back to names on dials some went for actual station names (e.g. R Eireann, BBC Light etc) Some went for the names of the cities (usual national/regional capitals) where studios were based (Paris, Budapest, London, Moscow) some preferred the names of towns at/near where transmitters were located (Lathi, Sundsvall, Droitwich, Allouis etc) and some went for odd combinations (station names for UK/Irish stations City or Transmitter names for most of the continentals) also most used English language names for foreign cities but sometimes one would see "Bruxells" "Munchen" "Wien" "Milano" etc.

Capt'n Midnight · 07-03-2011 11:45PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

most used English language names for foreign cities but sometimes one would see "Bruxells" "Munchen" "Wien" "Milano" etc.

some people like that sort of stuff

also makes the radio easier to sell on foreign markets

Bearhunter · 08-03-2011 12:13AM

I've got an old Pye valve radio at home with all the names on the dial. i must dig it out when I'm next home and get some pics of the dial. Fantastic sound out of it and great reception. Nothing like lying in bed listening to bizarre broadcasts coming and going on the ether from Warsaw and Vienna back in the cold war days.

Mike 1972 · 08-03-2011 09:07AM

Anyone wanting to know more about the topic should google the phrases "vintage radio" (for the sets themselves) or "medium wave DXing Europe" (for foreign listening) also "Old time radio" (for a mostly American perspective)

Godsgift · 07-04-2018 01:23PM

icdg wrote: »

LOL. Radio Éireann was actually called Radio Athlone for a few years. The name seemed to stick. As did both the names Radio Éireann and Telefís Éireann despite both stations being renamed RTÉ as long ago as 1966...

Athlone was and is geographically slap bang in the centre of the island of Ireland and the transmitter and mast were placed there to insure maximum coverage.

L1011 · 07-04-2018 01:30PM

Godsgift wrote: »

Athlone was and is geographically slap bang in the centre of the island of Ireland and the transmitter and mast were placed there to insure maximum coverage.

But the site itself was extremely poor for MW transmission and Tullamore which was later used was vastly superior.

Transmitter site selection by a geographer not an engineer!

branie2 · 13-04-2018 08:35AM

My paternal grandparents had a wireless underneath a picture of the Sacred Heart

branie2 · 13-04-2018 01:36PM

O'Donnell Abu is going through my head now

Fuzzy Clam · 14-04-2018 09:23PM

L1011 wrote: »

But the site itself was extremely poor for MW transmission and Tullamore which was later used was vastly superior.

Transmitter site selection by a geographer not an engineer!

I don't think it was a bad site at all. It was in use for over 4 decades by Radio Eireann after all. And then for a couple more by Radio 2.

The old transmitter was in need of replacement and the existing aerial etc may not have been up to the new higher power that RTE were intending to use.
500 Kw v 100 Kw.
As RTE had decided to go with a 5/8 wave monopole, relocating to a brand new site would seem to have been the sensible option.
Everything at the old site was , well, old.

I'm not sure that they would have had the space in Athlone for a new mast anyway and any kind of antenna work would have almost certainly resulted in lengthy periods of downtime of the existing transmitter which, in the early 1970's when nearly all listening was on MW, would not have been an option.

BIB. Apart from the location, soil quality is extremely important when choosing a site for MW or LW. I would be surprised if they didn't consult geographers when selecting Athlone. I have no idea exactly what information Radio Eireann had at the time but the BBC had maps showing soil conditions which they used in site selection so I would imagine that Radio Eireann had the same.

beauf · 14-04-2018 09:32PM

I find when I hear radio stations coming in and out I find it very nostalgic.

Rather than the internet, podcasts are the nearest thing to it for me now.

Modern radio especially in Ireland is very poor. There are some gems here an there.

L1011 · 15-04-2018 10:33AM

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

BIB. Apart from the location, soil quality is extremely important when choosing a site for MW or LW. I would be surprised if they didn't consult geographers when selecting Athlone. I have no idea exactly what information Radio Eireann had at the time but the BBC had maps showing soil conditions which they used in site selection so I would imagine that Radio Eireann had the same.

The ground conditions are basically the main thing that is wrong there. You would never site a transmitter there if you knew what was needed - it only made sense from a 'its the centre of Ireland' perspective.

Fuzzy Clam · 15-04-2018 10:42AM

L1011 wrote: »

The ground conditions are basically the main thing that is wrong there. You would never site a transmitter there if you knew what was needed - it only made sense from a 'its the centre of Ireland' perspective.

I know what is needed.

The signal radiated fine. It can't have been that bad a site.

L1011 · 15-04-2018 10:26PM

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I know what is needed.

The signal radiated fine. It can't have been that bad a site.

It really didn't. Read reports from the time - signal barely penetrated the North West for starters. Moving to 567/Tullamore was a massive improvement.

As 2FM it was vaguely OK, but that was with additional transmitters in Cork and Beaumont; which Tullamore did not need.

The Beaumont transmitter site sold for an seven or eight figure sum so it probably covered the extra electricity costs!

Fuzzy Clam · 18-04-2018 11:57AM

L1011 wrote: »

It really didn't. Read reports from the time - signal barely penetrated the North West for starters. Moving to 567/Tullamore was a massive improvement.

Tullamore was at least 5 times the radiated power though.
If you increase the power by 4, then you increase coverage area by 2. In the case of Tullamore, the power was 5 times with a better antenna.

I had a look at the types of soil for both the Tullamore and Athlone sites on the Teagasc website.
Athlone is described as loamy and Tullamore as peat. Neither is particularly good. Loam is sandy and doesn't hold water well and peat isn't much better.
I can't locate it now but I used to have a chart listing the conductive properties of various types of soils. Obviously salt water was at the top but I think loam was above peat in the list.

Amalgam · 19-04-2018 03:21PM

Stations come and go, we have a couple of Bush radios from the 40's and we have, 'Morava' listed on one only, then, 'Kalundborg' and 'Marseille' on another, and finally, 'Stavanger'. (?) That could be an 'l' or a 't'..

Two Murphy radios too, I think built locally, (Ireland), the Bush radios would have been built locally too.

Never ever purchased a radio, all skips or exchange. Up to the early 1980s, my late father would bring them to a man off to the side of Donnybrook Garda Station. that little road going off to the side of the petrol station forecourt.

The radios would be fixed, have valves replaced for a pittance. Long passed on sadly.

whisky_galore · 26-04-2018 11:22AM

branie2 wrote: »

O'Donnell Abu is going through my head now

From RTE Archives...

Over several days in February 1936, Twenty tunes were played for listeners to Radio Athlone. The purpose was to let the listeners select a suitable identification tune signal for the Irish national station. By a large majority, the tune selected was ‘O’Donnell Abú’.
In all, 968 letters were received. There were 260 votes for ‘O’Donnell Abú’. This was by far the highest number of votes. The second favourite tune was ‘Fáinne Geal an Lae’ with 151 votes. ‘The Blackbird’ received 88 votes, ‘My Lagan Love’, 58, and ‘Brian Boru’s March’, 52.
Dr T.J. Kiernan, Director of Broadcasting, placed an order with a German firm to have the electrical device for recording the signal installed. Wavebands were crowded and electrical interference was a common problem, which meant that these “tuning signals” were very useful for finding a station at a time when Radio Athlone was on air for only part of the day.
‘O’Donnell Abú’ remains the station identification signal for RTÉ and can be heard each morning at 05.30 on RTÉ Radio 1, just before the daytime programmes begin.

Why do old radios have cities listed on the Dial?

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