Flouride-free Toothpaste

oscarvictor · 19-02-2011 09:34PM #1

Does anybody know where to buy flouride-free toothpaste in Ireland?:

Phoenix Park · 19-02-2011 09:36PM

Euthymol is available everywhere (chemist). Tastes great. The downside is the no fluoride aspect.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 19-02-2011 09:47PM

All you have to do then is find flouride free water to rinse with...;)

oscarvictor · 19-02-2011 09:47PM

Phoenix Park - thank you for quick reply. Why "downside"?. My teeth are brittle and saw some research which suggests it could be caused by too much flouride??

Phoenix Park · 19-02-2011 09:54PM

Fluoride helps protect against cavities, it doesn't make your teeth brittle. Giving fluoride to kids (depending on their age) be it in toothpaste or water or whatever can cause discoloration in some cases if the level of exposure is high, leaving a yellow/brown/chalky mark in some areas of the teeth-fluorosis. There are kids toothpastes which are age appropriate. As you are presumably an adult i would suggest using a fluoride toothpaste, there is a load of rubbish online most of which can be taken with a pinch of salt. All the best

Faith+1 · 19-02-2011 11:50PM

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Fluoride helps protect against cavities, it doesn't make your teeth brittle.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Fluoride is known to cause dental fluorosis, a defect of the tooth enamel caused by fluoride’s interference with developing teeth. Its visible signs are mottled or yellowed teeth. Nearly 30% of children drinking fluoridated water suffer from dental fluorosis on two or more teeth (Hileman, 1988). [/SIZE][/FONT]

todolist · 19-02-2011 11:55PM

All health food shops stock flouride-free toothpaste.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 20-02-2011 01:04AM

The problem with fluorosis studies like Hilelan, O'Mullane, Whelton, flemming etc is that they use indices to judge if a tooth has fluorosis. usually Dean's Fluorosis Index or the Thylstrup-Fejerskov Index. These grade white patches and brown patches on teeth into various categories. From examining many teeth they draw conclusions on the levels of fluorosis.

The problems are:

1. The mildest fluorosis is barley visible on a dry tooth and invisible on a wet tooth, this still counts as fluorosis. You could have it and never know, its of no consequence and in fact the teeth are a little harder and less susceptible to decay. The vast majority have this grade.

2. There are at least a dozen more common causes or white patches and brown patches than excessive fluoride intake (trauma, idiopathic, childhood illness, MIH, etc). These indices assume all white patches are fluorosis. (This is a totally idiotic thing to do and I could never understand how these studies get past editorial), you would have to take a sample of the tooth structure and analyze it to see if it was actually fluorosis. It like assuming that everyone who has had a headache has some rare brain disorder.

Its one of those topics that draws out a lot of quacks and conspiracy theorists, I don t know why us dentist bother to promote its use, it prevents decay which reduces our business, its like turkeys voting for christmas

Big_G · 20-02-2011 05:19AM

Jesus, I go away for a day and there's a thread about fluoride, and somebody has produced a reference that is 23 years old? It's like people are lurking waiting for this topic to come up.....

Phoenix Park · 20-02-2011 12:04PM

Faith+1 wrote: »

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Fluoride is known to cause dental fluorosis, a defect of the tooth enamel caused by fluoride’s interference with developing teeth. Its visible signs are mottled or yellowed teeth. Nearly 30% of children drinking fluoridated water suffer from dental fluorosis on two or more teeth (Hileman, 1988). [/SIZE][/FONT]

Thank you for cutting off my quote just before i mentioned fluorosis!. I wasn't denying its existence, just stating that fluoride toothpaste is more beneficial than the other in the vast majority of cases.

oscarvictor · 20-02-2011 04:33PM

Thanks!!! Did not mean to start a war. Will try Euthymol first and see how I get on!

work · 20-02-2011 06:57PM

oscarvictor wrote: »

Thanks!!! Did not mean to start a war. Will try Euthymol first and see how I get on!

I gear golden syrup is as good as Euthymol, tastes even better and all the health "benefits" (ie non) of no Fluoride. You would be as well off using no toothpaste!

digzy · 20-02-2011 10:25PM

if you look at the back of most fluoride pastes it will give the quantity within. Colgate total has about 1450 ppm. thats less than 1%.
TBH it aint a deal/breaker/maker.

I believe the main effect of fluoride is when the tooth is growing. Therefore for most of us adults it's only got a topical -contact- effect, which i'm convinced is miniscule.Remember you spit it out anyway!

So i wouldn't overestimate its benefit nor it's allaged bad effects. If you're worried about what causes cavities diet is number 1.
The majority of dentists posting here use it on our own teeth (i assume). it's fair to assume we'd find alternative ways of poisoning ourselves should the notion take us:)

As i've stated previously, there's a helluva lot of other things in our water i'd be more worried about than fluoride.

My name is URL · 22-02-2011 07:40PM

work wrote: »

I gear golden syrup is as good as Euthymol, tastes even better and all the health "benefits" (ie non) of no Fluoride. You would be as well off using no toothpaste!

Not really.. The main reason for using any toothpaste (fluoridated or not) is because it's abrasive qualities aid better cleaning. Most people have a sufficient intake of fluoride from other sources anyway so using a non-fluoridated toothpaste no less effective.

Personally I've been using Euthymol for the last few years. I find it leaves my mouth feeling much cleaner and tastes far better than the sickly-sweet main brands out there.

work · 22-02-2011 08:30PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Not really.. The main reason for using any toothpaste (fluoridated or not) is because it's abrasive qualities aid better cleaning. Most people have a sufficient intake of fluoride from other sources anyway so using a non-fluoridated toothpaste no less effective.

Personally I've been using Euthymol for the last few years. I find it leaves my mouth feeling much cleaner and tastes far better than the sickly-sweet main brands out there.

Anecdotal evidence, I hope you do not mind, but I have found many patients over the years get a surge in dental caries (cavities) with the only obvious change in their lifestyle being the change away from a fluoride toothpaste. I would imagine these are "high risk" patients (ie poor diet and or hygiene) and the loss of the frequent fluoride from toothpaste allows the tooth decay spiral.

I am not sure the abrasive qualities truly aid dental cleaning to any significant amount they most likey do aid the wearing away of tooth substance for many people.

Bambi2 · 09-05-2011 02:39PM

Hi Lads,

I know some of you probably were glad

this topic was done and dusted but I just had a wee question and you all seem to know more about this than me.

I have a taste of soap in my mouth since yesterday morning, it's absolutely gross :mad: and the only thing that works for it is mouthwash but only for a while. From a few google searches I think it's probably an overdose of flouride. Would it be ok to use a flouride-free toothpaste for a week or will my teeth go all gross and smelly??:eek:

Akrasia · 13-05-2011 09:12AM

The only real benefit to toothpaste at all is the fluoride. The act of brushing the teeth is the most important thing as it physically brushes away most of the plaque and bacteria, fluoride free toothpaste is no better than brushing your teeth with nothing but tap water.

If you don't want to use fluoride for a few days, don't bother with non fluoride toothpaste, just use water.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 13-05-2011 09:53AM

Bambi2 wrote: »

From a few google searches I think it's probably an overdose of flouride. Would it be ok to use a flouride-free toothpaste for a week or will my teeth go all gross and smelly??:eek:

If you overdosed on fluoried you would be in hospital or dead. Flouride has no odour or taste. I would look for a different explanation like something on your toothbrush or your toothbrush cup.

Bambi2 · 13-05-2011 12:01PM

Thanks for your help, I may have mis-spoke when I said "overdosed" and meant an over-consumption. There definitely was nothing on my toothbrush, I'm a bit compulsive about that. The taste became most apparent when I ate anything for 3 days and the only thing that shifted it was gargling with mouth wash.

I came across this online and a few more like it:
[HTML]
The soapy taste can possibly be due to the over consumption of fluoride which is commonly present in the Certain mouthwashes and toothpastes , Certain vitamins (Tri-Vi-Flor, Poly-Vi-Flor, Vi-Daylin F) , Fluoridated water & Sodium fluoride liquid and tablets. If you are using the fluoridated paste/mouthwash, then you need to avoid it for a few days and I hope you’ll feel better.
[/HTML]

Anyway used the Euthymol for a few days and now I'll go back to my colgate total. Thanks for the help

flahavaj · 13-05-2011 05:24PM

Bambi2 wrote: »

Thanks for your help, I may have mis-spoke when I said "overdosed" and meant an over-consumption. There definitely was nothing on my toothbrush, I'm a bit compulsive about that. The taste became most apparent when I ate anything for 3 days and the only thing that shifted it was gargling with mouth wash.

I came across this online and a few more like it:
[HTML]
The soapy taste can possibly be due to the over consumption of fluoride which is commonly present in the Certain mouthwashes and toothpastes , Certain vitamins (Tri-Vi-Flor, Poly-Vi-Flor, Vi-Daylin F) , Fluoridated water & Sodium fluoride liquid and tablets. If you are using the fluoridated paste/mouthwash, then you need to avoid it for a few days and I hope you’ll feel better.
[/HTML]

Anyway used the Euthymol for a few days and now I'll go back to my colgate total. Thanks for the help

So the soapy taste comes when you eat but you blame Fluoride?

Makes no sense.

ballsymchugh · 13-05-2011 06:35PM

flahavaj wrote: »

So the soapy taste comes when you eat but you blame Fluoride?

Makes no sense.

were you not in that day? fluoride + food = soap. page 77.

Susie564 · 13-05-2011 09:47PM

Ok, it was a fairly simple question. You dentists do like to get your undies in a twist on this thing sometimes. Ok so some of us aren't as well educated as we should be on flouride. There's a lot of mis-information on the net, put something simple into google search and you can come back with all-sorts.

Bambi2 · 17-05-2011 08:19PM

Well just in case anybody else comes upon this (as I did) with a similar problem. It all cleared up after about 3 days, I did use a fluoride-free toothpaste (whether or not that was the thing that helped) and the only way of shifting the soapy taste after meals or when it arrived was with mouthwash! And according to some other forums it's not THAT weird, despite the reactions I got here :eek:

Big_G · 18-05-2011 01:48PM

It's more likely sodium lauryl sulfate which is a constituent of soap that was giving you the soapy taste not flouride. The hippy dippy non fluoride toothpastes may not contain it because some people are allergic to it.

Also, your mouthwash probably contains fluoride. So you were using fluoride to get rid of the fluoride taste.

DaveTwenty7 · 18-05-2011 02:53PM

Big_G wrote: »

It's more likely sodium lauryl sulfate which is a constituent of soap that was giving you the soapy taste not flouride. The hippy dippy non fluoride toothpastes may not contain it because some people are allergic to it.

Also, your mouthwash probably contains fluoride. So you were using fluoride to get rid of the fluoride taste.

If you are using tap water you are also using fluoride to get rid of the fluoride taste.

Fialax · 09-02-2013 11:50AM

Hi, i do not want you to confuse but did you read ingredients in Euthymol toothpaste cos one of it is CI45430=Erythrosine which is derivated of fluorone. Called as well Tetraiodofluorescein Sodium Salt. In these day manufacturers use many names on back of it for same substances. One rule: If you dot know don't buy, use your phone and google will find for you or contact manufacturer.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 09-02-2013 04:00PM

Fialax wrote: »

Hi, i do not want you to confuse but did you read ingredients in Euthymol toothpaste cos one of it is CI45430=Erythrosine which is derivated of fluorone. Called as well Tetraiodofluorescein Sodium Salt. In these day manufacturers use many names on back of it for same substances. One rule: If you dot know don't buy, use your phone and google will find for you or contact manufacturer.

Eh 30 seconds on google gave the chemical formula of that, not a single fluoride ion in it (Molecular formula C20H6I4Na2O5), moral of the story, use google correctly, and temper your conclusion with some common sense and a basic knowledge of chemistry.

Fialax · 13-02-2013 08:51PM

Hey guy i wont fight with U about skills in chemistry or computer. Whole i know i read somewhere and just passing ahead. We all make mistakes and i am not here to make lobby for someone. Every person has to make own decision. I give them just the information. here where my poor google skills lead me.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythrosine

And another 30s later your "Molecular formula C20H6I4Na2O5" in google give me this result
I quote:
Risk Codes: R22
Safety Statements: Poison by intravenous route. Moderately toxic by ingestion. Questionable carcinogen with experimental tumorigenic data. Experimental reproductive effects. Human mutation data reported. When heated to decomposition it emits very toxic fumes of Na2O and I−.

Safety: WARNING: Harmful through skin absorbtion or ingestion.
Hazard Codes : Xn: Harmful
Risk Statements : 22: Harmful if swallowed
Safety Statements : 36: Wear suitable protective clothing

http://www.guidechem.com/dictionary/en/16423-68-0.html

I didnt know that before. thanks

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 13-02-2013 09:52PM

Seriosusly....read the wikipedia article if your going to quote it

______________________

It (Erythosine) is used as a food coloring, in printing inks, as a biological stain, a dental plaque disclosing agent and a radiopaque medium. It was used as a sensitizer for orthochromatic photographic films. Erythrosine is commonly used in sweets such as some candies and popsicles, and even more widely used in cake-decorating gels. It is also used to color pistachio shells.[3][4] As a food additive, it has the E number E127.

While commonly used in many countries of the world, erythrosine is less commonly used in the United States (the second least used after Fast Green FCF) because Allura Red AC (Red #40) is generally used instead. However, Allura Red AC is banned in many European countries solely because it is an azo dye,[5] despite scientific consensus of Red 40 having fewer known health risks.

As a result of efforts begun in the 1970s, in 1990 the U.S. FDA had instituted a partial ban on erythrosine, citing research that high doses have been found to cause cancer in rats.[6] In June 2008, the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) petitioned the FDA for a complete ban on erythrosine in the United States.[7]

A series of toxicology tests combined with a review of other reported studies concluded that erythrosine is non-mutagenic.[8] Erythrosine can be used in colored food in USA without any restriction.[9]

_____________________________________________________

You will find a great number of common chemicals are harmful in high doses or intravenous injection.

However you linked and quoted from guidechem to Erythrosine Sodium (in the hydrated close form) C20H6I4Na2O5.H2O which is not the same chemical you talked about before :rolleyes: that would be plain old erytherosine C20H6I4Na2O5 which has a much milder safety statement and a different chemical formula, and a totally different molecular structure.statement. These chemical statements are for industrial quantities (breathing the pure dust etc) not the tiny amounts used in this very common food coloring thats been around for 40 years or more.

Here is the safety statement for ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) for comparison

Hazard Codes of?L-Ascorbate (CAS NO.50-81-7):?Xn
Risk Statements: 20/21/22-36/37/38?
R20/21/22: Harmful by inhalation, in contact with skin and if swallowed.?
R36/37/38: Irritating to eyes, respiratory system and skin.
Safety Statements: 24/25-36-26?
S24/25: Avoid contact with skin and eyes.?
S36: Wear suitable protective clothing.?
S26: In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice.
WGK Germany: 1
RTECS: CI7650000
HS Code: 29362700

Toothpaste companies dont generally poison their customers it makes it hard sell more toothpaste.

And Erythersine still has no fluoride in it as per the title of this thread.

Your posting total rubbish and making it sound pseudoscientific. moral of the story, use google correctly, and temper your conclusion with some common sense and a basic knowledge of chemistry. And if your replying after a shaming then double check your facts. I look forward to your comeback :P

Oral Surgeon · 13-02-2013 11:02PM

Hi fialax,

Many things can be harmful in the wrong amounts;
Water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Or in a different chemical makeup;
Oxygen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone

Chill out

Fialax · 16-02-2013 11:05PM

Mine bad. I am not infallible. Why should i shame? I don't know. I never want to mislead anyone. Just mention that substance in toothpaste doesn't seem to me as good as you may think. I agree that e127 doesn't contain any fluoride, but you cant hide that this ingredients on the scale 1-6 (1=low,6=high risk product) is number 4. Think why use something that can cause thyroid cancer, allergy and hyperactivity and is not healthy for kids neither more, even is use by many sweets making manufacturers? When adding this it change just the color and not make difference on how well are your teeth cleaned. If you want to use workaway but if you started think about fluoride may you found helpful that other substances may are not healthy as well. For another example SLS in toothpaste called above. And already is out there better way to go. Before you star correct me about SLS note that is it my opinion to not use cos 50% studies say its good other say it is not. I will not risk my life just cos someone decide base on study which is not clearly better than others. Better avoid it then cry later on.

Many thanks for explanation about Color Index 45430 because i was evidently wrong. Iam open mind, eager for knowledge and always will be. So any ideas? Go on and hit me.

Flouride-free Toothpaste

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