Fine Gael policy to end compusory Irish till Leaving Cert

mike65 · 07-02-2011 11:50AM #1

Just heard it mentioned on radio.

Is this the saviour of the language?

The reaction when this was put forward as policy in 2005
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1116/irish.html

Renn · 07-02-2011 12:03PM

Has he proclaimed to be the saviour of the Irish language, whatever the hell that means anyway?

cock robin · 07-02-2011 12:07PM

mike65 wrote: »

Just heard it mentioned on radio.

Is this the saviour of the language?

The reaction when this was put forward as policy in 2005
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1116/irish.html

céin fà

snickerpuss · 07-02-2011 12:07PM

End compulsory Irish until the Leaving?
You mean up to, ie- compulsory til then.
Don't know how I feel about this. And I'm a Gaelgeoir with a degree in it!

IvySlayer · 07-02-2011 12:09PM

Restructure the entire thing.

Learning Irish poetry and stories was ****ing ridiculous and it has not once benfited me in life. Start teaching in like the way French/German is. Considering Irish has to be learned through all of our school life and Irish is still dying as a language, is that not a sign the current cirrculum is not suitable?

fulhamfanincork · 07-02-2011 12:11PM

Irish leaving cert is based on the english leaving format which is ridiculous.

mickydoomsux · 07-02-2011 12:11PM

About time. We need to completely do away with Irish being taught in schools, it's a waste of time.

Replace it with a international language that actually has some kind of value.

Earthhorse · 07-02-2011 12:11PM

I think a proper analysis of the Irish language, what it means to its people and its place in the education system is long overdue.

AnonoBoy · 07-02-2011 12:11PM

Good. This will mean that when I have those awful 'doing my leaving cert again but wearing my slippers at the exam' dreams at least I will be exempt from having to dream-study the Modh Coinniolach.

david75 · 07-02-2011 12:11PM

I was voting Labour anyways but **** this..No way can they do that..another bullet in the revolver of political suicide the FG clowns seem to want to put to their heads

Aodan83 · 07-02-2011 12:12PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

Restructure the entire thing.

Learning Irish poetry and stories was ****ing ridiculous and it has not once benfited me in life. Start teaching in like the way French/German is.

The LC higher paper has as much, if not more, poetry on it than the higher English paper. It's a ridiculous amount of effort to have to put in to a subject you don't really need other than to get into college.

ballsymchugh · 07-02-2011 12:13PM

i wish that someone would just split the curriculum into language and literature.
the literature should be optional, but the language shouldn't. teach it like a foreign language. if a student is strong at that then they can take the literature curriculum for the leaving. i would've taken that before english.

Coriolanus · 07-02-2011 12:18PM

Thhe current system doesn't work. Most people leave school able to recite rote answers and write a catch all essay and that's it.

If people want it to be compulsory then it needs a radical overhaul.

ballsymchugh · 07-02-2011 12:18PM

Aodan83 wrote: »

The LC higher paper has as much, if not more, poetry on it than the higher English paper. It's a ridiculous amount of effort to have to put in to a subject you don't really need other than to get into college.

you could also argue that for the english curriculum too though. as long as people are taught how to spell and structure a sentence correctly, then why would they need to learn poetry by yeats and keats, or plays by shakespeare in an obsolete form of a language?

pedro ferio-vti · 07-02-2011 12:18PM

Completely agree they should teach it more like a foreign language but I really wouldn't like to see it being completely erased from our curriculum. I really wish I was taught Gaeilge better in school even though I did reasonably well by the exams standards I can't speak fluently at all which is a disgrace considering we are all taught it for 12 years +.

I would like to take a look at the way Welsh is taught and see if we could learn anything from them considering their similar situation however their native language is still very much known and spoken daily among regular folk which is at complete contrast to ourselves.

Coriolanus · 07-02-2011 12:19PM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

you could also argue that for the english curriculum too though. as long as people are taught how to spell and structure a sentence correctly, then why would they need to learn poetry by yeats and keats, or plays by shakespeare in an obsolete form of a language?

most people are reasonably fluent speakers in English when they reach school. The same cqnt be said of Irish.

david75 · 07-02-2011 12:23PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

About time. We need to completely do away with Irish being taught in schools, it's a waste of time.

Replace it with a international language that actually has some kind of value.

We'll see you out waving your union jack when the Queen visits no doubt?

there's nothing wrong with the Irish language but everything is wrong with the way it's taught and its cirriculum.

It's the last shred of our own culture we have left, we cling to it or just become a province of the Uk(which we are pretty much in every other aspect) our language being the one thing we have left to seperate us..

this would be devastating ..

Renn · 07-02-2011 12:24PM

Waving your Union Jack, wtf

Snakeblood · 07-02-2011 12:28PM

david75 wrote: »

We'll see you out waving your union jack when the Queen visits no doubt?

there's nothing wrong with the Irish language but everything is wrong with the way it's taught and its cirriculum.

It's the last shred of our own culture we have left, we cling to it or just become a province of the Uk(which we are pretty much in every other aspect) our language being the one thing we have left to seperate us..

this would be devastating ..

Not everyone who thinks Irish is a waste of time is ready to welcome 800 YEARS OF blahblahblah. You sound sort of whiny.

07-02-2011 12:30PM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

you could also argue that for the english curriculum too though. as long as people are taught how to spell and structure a sentence correctly, then why would they need to learn poetry by yeats and keats, or plays by shakespeare in an obsolete form of a language?

It's in your first language.. It's not about the poetry, it's about the fact you have to do a literary review or whatever its called on it in your second or third language.

Such a fuking waste of time.. I can still remember all the verbs you put after "muscliun an poem seo.." but i can't remember how to ask someone for directions to the shop.. Anyone who defends that method of teaching a language is a plank.

Snakeblood · 07-02-2011 12:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's in your first language.. It's not about the poetry, it's about the fact you have to do a literary review or whatever its called on it in your second or third language.

Such a fuking waste of time.. I can still remember all the verbs you put after "muscliun an poem seo.." but i can't remember how to ask someone for directions to the shop.. Anyone who defends that method of teaching a language is a plank.

'Ca bhfuil an siopa?'

Although I'd be screwed if they answered in Irish.

Earthhorse · 07-02-2011 12:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Such a fuking waste of time.. I can still remember all the verbs you put after "muscliun an poem seo.." but i can't remember how to ask someone for directions to the shop.

But you know how to ask for permission to go to the shop, right?

krudler · 07-02-2011 12:35PM

I'd love if I could speak Irish fluently, but since the way its taught in schools is a joke after, what, 13 years? of learning it in school I cant string a sentence together, its ridiculous, you could learn it in a few months if taught properly. I can probably speak more French than Irish and only did that for 3 years in school.

david75 · 07-02-2011 12:36PM

Speaks volumes more about the qulaity of educators we've sent out over the years than it does about the language. Wish people would see that. One of the Best education systems in the world me hoop

Snakeblood · 07-02-2011 12:37PM

mike65 wrote: »

Just heard it mentioned on radio.

Is this the saviour of the language?

The reaction when this was put forward as policy in 2005
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1116/irish.html

It's a good idea for people, but politically it's stupid. you just have to look at people seriously advancing the idea of a debate in Irish. That's not about communicating, it's about pandering to people who have a chip on their shoulder about Irish.

Liamario · 07-02-2011 12:42PM

I think most people would love to be able to speak the language fluently, but what's the point in the end.
All languages die in the end. Even English will evolve into something else.
Clearly, the curriculum and the teaching methods suck. If we moved to an Irish speaking country, we'd be comfortable with the language in 3 years. But a decade in our schools and we still can't have a propoer conversation using it.
It's a real shame people, but unfortunately, that's the reality.

ballsymchugh · 07-02-2011 12:43PM

Nevore wrote: »

most people are reasonably fluent speakers in English when they reach school. The same cqnt be said of Irish.

true, although was referring to the post that about the amount of poetry etc making the course ridiculous. there's not many opportunities to refer to english poetry in the daily run of things either. nothing against learning it if you want, but if you're making the case against the irish literature, then the same should apply to english literature.

mickydoomsux · 07-02-2011 12:44PM

david75 wrote: »

We'll see you out waving your union jack when the Queen visits no doubt?

Nah, got better things to do with my time.

Irish is a dead language. It's an utter waste of time and money to teach it, translate all government documents into Irish, etc. We are global citizens now, we have no time for teaching something that a tiny percentage of people on our tiny little island use.

deise go deo · 07-02-2011 12:50PM

Creideann muid gur cheart don Ghaeilge bheith mar Chroí-Ábhar Ardteiste a dhéanfaidh gach dalta staidear uirthí.

Má dhéantar roghnach í creideann muid go dhéanfaidh sé an dochair don teanga.
Ní roghnóidh daltaí an Ghaeilge toisc:
1- Bíonn teangacha níos deacaire san Ardteist
2- Tá dhá pháipear sa Ghaeilge- 7.5 uair v 2-3 uair ag ábhar eile
3- Beidh sí in iomaíocht le hábhair eilse atá riachtanach don tríú leibhéal
4- Ní bheidh an Ghaeilge ar fáil i ngach scoil a thuilleadh
5- Beidh díspreagadh ann ón mbunscoil ar aghaidh.

Tá teangacha roghnach don GCSE i Sasana o 2001 agys thit an líon daltaí ag staidéar teangacha go tubaisteach go 44% ó 78%. Beidh an scéal níos measa fós in Éirinn

IS GÁ AN CÚRSA A ATHRÚ SEACHAS É A DHÉANAMH ROGHNACH

____________________________________________________

We believe the Irish Language should be a Core Leaving Cert Subject that all students should study.

Making the Irish language optional will cause irreparable damage to the future of our native tongue.
If it is made optional students will not choose Irish as a subject because:
1- Languages are harder subjects to study for the Leaving Cert
2- There are 2 papers in Irish- 7.5 hours v 2-3 hours (most other subjects)
3- Irish would have to compete with other subjects for third level (eg biology for medicine)
4- Irish would no longer be available in every school
5- Students will be deterred from studying Irish from Primary school onwards

Languages have been optional for the GCSE in England since 2001.The amount of students studying languages has fallen from 78% to 44%. This scenario will be even worse in Ireland.

THE COURSE NEEDS TO BE REVAMPED AND REVITALISED- NOT MADE OPTIONAL
Cur Síos:Dhá ábhar don Ghaeilge a fhorbairt ag an dara leibhéal le dhá pháipéar scrúdaithe ar leith don Ardteis-

1- "Teanga na Gaeilge" a mhúinfí do gach mac léinn: ag múineadh agus ag measúnú na scileanna tuisceana, labhartha, léite agus scríofa ag baint leasa as an bhFráma Coiteann Eorpach mar thagairt agus ag cuimsiú feasachta teanga.

2- "Litríocht agus Saíocht na Gaeilge" le déanamh ag mic léinn ardleibhéil amháin agus le múineadh go comhtháite le "Teanga na Gaeilge" ag an leibhéal cuí.

____________________________________________________

Develop two subjects relating to Irish at secondary level with two separate exams for the Leaving Cert-

1- "Irish Language" should be taught to every student: understanding, speaking, reading and writing skills should be taught and assessed using the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages. This subject should cover language awareness as well.

2- "Litríocht agus Saíocht na Gaeilge" should be an option for advanced students only and it should be taught in an integrated manner with "Irish Language" at the appropriate level.

Here is what is up on the facebook group for Keeping Irish as a compulsory subject.

For my part, I would be genuinly shocked if Enda went ahead with this Idea. It will be opposed every step of the way.

deise go deo · 07-02-2011 12:51PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Irish is a dead language. It's an utter waste of time and money to teach it, translate all government documents into Irish, etc. We are global citizens now, we have no time for teaching something that a tiny percentage of people on our tiny little island use.

No it is not. :rolleyes:

07-02-2011 12:52PM

The other big thing about the curriculum is that it doesn't allow full immersion.. If you want to explain the hundred different emotions the poetry inspires in you, ya have to use english.

There should never be a word of English in an Irish class. We should be taught conversational Irish from day 1..

Fine Gael policy to end compusory Irish till Leaving Cert

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