restoration, reshell,is it possible to retain car's identity?

This goes back to the argument if you have an axe with 2 replacement heads and two handles, is it the original axe. Same thing applies to ex rally cars that have been re-shelled, it just isnt the original car, no matter how much you want it to be!

Maybe get a similar car in good order and put some of the stuff from your dads car on it, to carry over some parts.

What is the car by the way OP?

If it truly is out in a field, get it in if at all possible or at least get it covered. If you don't get around to it for another couple of years, at least you wont bang your head against a wall for letting it crumble:(. The whole identity argument is going to be dependant on your timescale & budget. Big budget, source original replacements, high quality pattern parts where required & keep it honest/pure, if not, hunt beg borrow steal, often the more satisfying way to go rather than picking up the phone & ordering all in one go. Had my car four years before stumbling across a near perfect chromed rear bumper in Germany, now it's complete, down to the correct torch for the glovebox:o but if I'm honest the years of hunting & searching/bargaining was half the fun. Whatever you decide to do, enjoy it!

Can anyone point out the regulations on car identity, reshelling, kit car registration etc. Things are pretty clear in the UK and I think VOSPA is the relevant authority but not sure about here.

The term "ringing" is thrown around a lot in this forum. My understanding of ringing is that it is tampering with the identity of a car having stolen that car.

If someone buys a car that is the same as his NCT exempt wrecked one and then the wrecked car magically appears on the road with its original registration - leaving aside the "moral" aspect or bringing disrepute to the hobby - what regulation has been broken?

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'm also aware of Range Rovers etc. on ZV reg's using old chassis but with much more modern bodies.

You mean VIN plates fitted to completely different vehicles!

si_guru wrote: »

It is still ringed....

What if the tax book I have is for a 1979 Fiesta and "restore" a 1981 Fiesta - that should be paying road tax and have an NCT.

What if you import a 1979 Fiesta, register it as a ZV having paid the nominal VRT, then use the entire car as "spare parts" to restore your wrecked Fiesta?

I'm just trying to tease out exactly what regulation has been broken. In my example I don't see any tax evasion but the identity of the car has still been tampered with.

In essence the law in Ireland is that the registration goes hand in hand with the chassis and the chassisnumber stamped on it. Whether you put a new bodyshell on it, has no bearing on the identity of the car. Hence Range Rovers, Beetles, and any other vehicle that have a SEPERATE chassis, can have a newer bodyshell without it becomeing a legal issue of the car being 'ringed'. Note that some people do cut Illegal corners by simply swapping the VIN number on the chassis to avoid a lengthy restoration of an otherwise rotten chassis. Also, a long wheel base Range Rover LSE with a ZV or old Irish plate, will also be rather suspicious since these models were only in 93-94 with a longer chassis than the original 2/4 door classic.

This is a practice that has been going on since the forties and fifties of the last century: old Bentley's have been reshelled as the "Big Blower" Le Mans racers, retaining their original registration, perfectly legitimate.

Nowadays however (or in fact from the sixties onwards really), cars have a monocoque construction, as in not a seperate chassis anymore but the entire body shell and frame is welded together to form a stronger and lighter unit, so you can no longer simply retain the original chassis and stick a new body on... you have to literally rebuild the car around the origianl unitary construction, which a lot more time consuming and costly! So for monocoque cars the only way to retain an original registration is a full blown restoration. How many new parts you throw at it, is irrelevant (in Ireland at least, I think in England you need a minimum of 30% of the original parts to go into the car to retain the identity), as long as you retain the original unitary/monocoque construction, where the chassis number was stamped intact.

If the area where the chassisnumber had been stamped is lost to the elements, the identity of the car is in fact lost too, and you need to start a procedure with the vehicle licensing authority to get a new number stamped in a new/restored chassis/shell.

BrianD3 wrote: »

Makes sense - but where is this stated in legislation?

not sure where this is stated in the legislation, in fact I don't think there are seperate provisions in the law made regarding this situation, but the law is and has always been that the identity of the vehicle is determined by the VIN number stamped in the chassis, nothing more nothing less.

It's how the authorities interpret this law, that's what I have been working with over the years, based on my dealings with the Vehicle Registration Offices in Rosslare and Vehicle Licensing in Co. Clare.

It's similar in most other European countries, but in the Uk and the Netherlands, people have been trying to use the (lack of) specific regulations to their advantage, and therefore there is now special legislation in place for these sort of situations.
For example here in Holland we have the enforcement of the 2/3 legislation: as in 2 out of the 3 basic elements/specifications should remain intact: Body/engine/chassis. You can replace the chassis, but only if the body and engine remain the same. You can replace engine, but body and chassis must be same. You cannot put different engine and body on an old chassis.. that's violating the 2/3 rule...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulK_CCI
If the area where the chassisnumber had been stamped is lost to the elements, the identity of the car is in fact lost too, and you need to start a procedure with the vehicle licensing authority to get a new number stamped in a new/restored chassis/shell.

There is no such procedure,I have tried to do this with a restored car,have been to the guards, the licensing authority and went to main dealers to ask about getting chassis number re stamped and there is no legal way to have it done or at least I have failed to find it after a year and a half of what seemed like banging my head add a wall!!

Reshelling would be the same as a kitcar i'd imagine.

From the Revenue VRT website


1.2.3.1 Re-built VehiclesThe initial determination to be made here is whether the re-built vehicle is required to
be declared for registration and, if so, whether it is liable to VRT. The rule to be
followed is that if the chassis, monocoque, or assembly serving an equivalent purpose
to a chassis, of the vehicle is either new and unused, or derived from another
Revenue Operational Manual VRT Section 1
12
unregistered vehicle in the State, then the vehicle must be given a new identity and
registered on payment of VRT. Where the chassis etc. has been obtained from a
registered vehicle registration is not required. The fact of the original/donor vehicle
being scrapped, and the alteration of the particulars of the re-built vehicle, must be
notified by its owner to the CVO and Driver and Vehicle Computer Services Division,
Department of Transport by completing the appropriate sections on the rear of the
Vehicle Licensing Certificate (VLC).
1.2.3.2 Kit CarsThese are vehicles constructed from an amalgam of parts supplied unassembled in kit
form. In general, the kit will include a new chassis and a variety of body panels that
must be assembled. The mechanics (e.g. engine, motors, etc.) and trim must be
obtained from another vehicle to enable the process to be completed. In most cases
the donor vehicle will be a vehicle already registered in the State, but no allowance is
made/granted in this respect when VRT payable on the completed kit car is being
calculated.
1.2.3.3 "Q"- Registered VehiclesThese vehicles are so-called because of the fact that the first letter of the assigned
registration number is the letter "Q". The registration numbers are issued by the UK
registration authorities where the age/origin of a vehicle, for whatever reason, cannot
be determined and, as such, requires special treatment when it is presented for
registration in the State. This includes:
�� assignment of an appropriate statistical code;
�� assessment of OMSP, where applicable (see para 1.3);
�� assignment of an unique index mark which indicates the year in which the
vehicle was first brought into use;
The NCTS Centre will record all the details relating to the vehicle and the CVO will
determine a statistical code and value for the vehicle.
Once a statistical code has been assigned by the CVO, OMSP determined and a VIN
assigned (where necessary), registration should proceed in the normal way. The
registration record should be noted to the effect that a manual certificate is required
and the papers forwarded to the CVO for necessary attention. The endorsement on
the VRC issued by the CVO should clearly reflect the origin and manufacture of the
vehicle.
The following points should also be noted:
�� where a private individual acquires a newly-assembled kit car abroad, the
normal VAT rules should be applied, i.e. VAT is payable if the vehicle is less
than 6 months old or has travelled less than 6,000 kms. Kit cars assembled in
the State are not liable to VAT where the sale/purchase invoice indicates that
it has been paid at the time of purchase of the kit;
�� for the present, new kit cars are subject to a general exemption from the
normal Department of Transport type-approval requirements (see para 1.6).