Why can't we neutralise the world and start again?

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 04:01AM #1

Almost every country is in debt. USA is fecked, Europe is fecked, Africa has been fecked since the beginning of civilization.

Why can't we just tell the bankers to feck off, throw away all the money we have and start from new?? Where every country has zero debt and no one owes anything to anyone??

Like pressing a giant 'reset' button for the world and bringing everything back to the starting point.

Then we could all work together in building the world again properly this time without screwing up like last time. Learning from the mistakes of the past and all.

Why can't all the countries just decide to stick up two fingers to the central banks and say "feck off, we're not paying you any debt anymore!!" and the banks won't really be able to do anything... Like what can they do? Fight us? Who would fight on their side?!!

jackie1974 · 15-01-2011 04:06AM

We could do that but Tinky Winky would probably pull Dipsys head off :P

reallyrose · 15-01-2011 04:07AM

Tyler Durden?

Welcome to boards!

brianthebard · 15-01-2011 04:08AM

lol you think we can tell them what to do? They don't have a problem with the way the world is run right now.

rossie1977 · 15-01-2011 04:15AM

no-one would ever lend anyone money in any shape of form again, banking would become obsolete overnight, thousands of businesses would go to the wall without a lending facility, with no businesses unemployment figures would soar

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 04:17AM

reallyrose wrote: »

Tyler Durden?

Welcome to boards!

Well, I do think it was a brilliant idea... Blowing up all the banks buildings so as to neutralise everyone's economic standings.

Its a bit socialist but its better than a whole country festering in debt...

Although I don't encourage blowing up the banks. I say why should we listen to these bankers?! Why can't we just do our own thing? Like civilisations used to back in the day. Grow our own food, grow our own industries, our own source of living and economy and if any foreign bankers offer us any loans, tell them to go shove it up their back sides!!

Look at how Japan picked itself back up after the war by developing its industries. Why can't Ireland do something similar? Why is it impossible to vision an Irish vehicles manufacturing company or an electronic company that would run as successfully as a Japanese one??

Ban Ki Moon · 15-01-2011 04:17AM

Imagine being a mod here, id rather clip auld ones toe nails.

Its been a while since I have been here but my head is hurting now after some of these threads.

Ye must have good weed

TeddyTedson · 15-01-2011 04:23AM

Would Pighead still be called Pighead?

EGriff · 15-01-2011 04:30AM

OMGZ yh lets all go live under the sea while we're at it. Yes humans need air but sure whatever.

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 04:31AM

Why can't you guys see it this way...

Like just imagine a world where suddenly all these banks perished?...

Like there are no banks and no one owes anything to anyone anymore.

Sure all the money would become obsolete. But then maybe we could set up a new monetary system to start over.

Sure some rich people will lose their savings and such. But as 90% of the population is in debt, it would be a little sacrifice by the rich folks to bring back everyone out of debt. And the rich people will still have their businesses and houses and cars and everything.

You know what's going to stop such a thing from happen. Cuz people can't find the time from all the bickering and complaining about how **** things are, they'ld rather keep complaining about how **** things are than do anything about it.

It is quite true that although the whole idea of a change in system sounds good, most people secretly dread change and would rather continue with their lives than start something new. Which is why we so often see people stuck in their same crap jobs complaining about how bad things are and do nothing about it while very few people actually manage to break off from it and do their own thing.

Oranage2 · 15-01-2011 04:54AM

af_thefragile wrote: »

Why can't you guys see it this way...

Like just imagine a world where suddenly all these banks perished?...

Like there are no banks and no one owes anything to anyone anymore.

Sure all the money would become obsolete. But then maybe we could set up a new monetary system to start over.

Sure some rich people will lose their savings and such. But as 90% of the population is in debt, it would be a little sacrifice by the rich folks to bring back everyone out of debt. And the rich people will still have their businesses and houses and cars and everything.

You know what's going to stop such a thing from happen. Cuz people can't find the time from all the bickering and complaining about how **** things are, they'ld rather keep complaining about how **** things are than do anything about it.

It is quite true that although the whole idea of a change in system sounds good, most people secretly dread change and would rather continue with their lives than start something new. Which is why we so often see people stuck in their same crap jobs complaining about how bad things are and do nothing about it while very few people actually manage to break off from it and do their own thing.

This is what Jim Corr is on about, people call him a loon and they're going to call you one OP too, Interest free money has done before in the USA and everytime a president tried to do it they were assinated.

Also banks can MAKE money and they charge interest on it so even if ALL the money was repayed we couldnt pay the interest because that money simply doesnt exsist -

EverEvolving · 15-01-2011 05:00AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

This is what Jim Corr is on about, people call him a loon and they're going to call you one OP too, Interest free money has done before in the USA and everytime a president tried to do it they were assinated.

Also banks can MAKE money and they charge interest on it so even if ALL the money was repayed we couldnt pay the interest because that money simply doesnt exsist -

Maybe the OP is Jim Corr???

Pics or ... you know the score ... :pac:

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 05:14AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

This is what Jim Corr is on about, people call him a loon and they're going to call you one OP too, Interest free money has done before in the USA and everytime a president tried to do it they were assinated.

Also banks can MAKE money and they charge interest on it so even if ALL the money was repayed we couldnt pay the interest because that money simply doesnt exsist -

I don't care if people call me a loon. This is an internet form and I'm pretty much anonymous here! And in the real world, I don't have any debts, I'm in a good college doing studying for a decent degree, I won't have much problem getting a job and settling in life.

I only buy things I need, I never buy anything on credit and I plan on leaving the country after I graduate. I don't owe anyone anything!
And I've vowed to never take a loan in my life. Not on interest anyway. I'ld accept investors interested in sharing profits and losses. I don't even have a credit card!

So yeah, I don't think I'm gonna have much problem with the banking/economic system because I'm not a part of it. Its just I feel the world is going to keep getting worse till a stop is put to this either naturally or by people standing up to their rights and saying they're not going to take any more of this anymore. Why should the people pay for loans they didn't take but were imposed upon them by corrupt governments?

There is a prediction, its a very weak prediction that in the coming years the whole banking system could collapse. Its unlikely but its a possibility. Then no matter what anyone says, the world will hit a reset button. But if the wrong people still remain in power, they'll just resurrect back the system with all its inherent flaws and we'll keep complaining why everything is so ****e!

Anyway, I know posting such things on an internet forum isn't going to change the world. I just like to see what are people's opinions on the things I post and the general level of concern and apathy among the people towards such matters. So far it seems that people just like to complain and do nothing else about things. Surely its easier to complain...

jd007 · 15-01-2011 05:25AM

Bring back the punt!

Oranage2 · 15-01-2011 05:48AM

af_thefragile wrote: »

I don't care if people call me a loon. This is an internet form and I'm pretty much anonymous here! And in the real world, I don't have any debts, I'm in a good college doing studying for a decent degree, I won't have much problem getting a job and settling in life.

I only buy things I need, I never buy anything on credit and I plan on leaving the country after I graduate. I don't owe anyone anything!
And I've vowed to never take a loan in my life. Not on interest anyway. I'ld accept investors interested in sharing profits and losses. I don't even have a credit card!

So yeah, I don't think I'm gonna have much problem with the banking/economic system because I'm not a part of it. Its just I feel the world is going to keep getting worse till a stop is put to this either naturally or by people standing up to their rights and saying they're not going to take any more of this anymore. Why should the people pay for loans they didn't take but were imposed upon them by corrupt governments?

There is a prediction, its a very weak prediction that in the coming years the whole banking system could collapse. Its unlikely but its a possibility. Then no matter what anyone says, the world will hit a reset button. But if the wrong people still remain in power, they'll just resurrect back the system with all its inherent flaws and we'll keep complaining why everything is so ****e!

Anyway, I know posting such things on an internet forum isn't going to change the world. I just like to see what are people's opinions on the things I post and the general level of concern and apathy among the people towards such matters. So far it seems that people just like to complain and do nothing else about things. Surely its easier to complain...

I agree with 100% and you are affected by the banks because you're paying tax thats used to bail out the banks and richest people in the world!

Also there's nothing stopping these bankers setting up concetration camps and throwing anyone that complains into them - It's been done before and still being done!

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 05:50AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

I agree with 100% and you are affected by the banks because you're paying tax thats used to bail out the banks and richest people in the world!

Also there's nothing stopping these bankers setting up concetration camps and throwing anyone that complains into them - It's been done before and still being done!

Don't pay tax.
I'm a student!! And the moment I graduate, I'm off to another country.

Though I would be paying VRT and other hidden taxes as such yeah.

mrsdewinter · 15-01-2011 06:02AM

OP, I admire your vision but would you please take the time to learn basic grammar and the difference between its and it's? Wherever you go in the world, whatever you make your living at, you'll be expected to use an apostrophe every now and again

af_thefragile · 15-01-2011 06:11AM

mrsdewinter wrote: »

OP, I admire your vision but would you please take the time to learn basic grammar and the difference between its and it's? Wherever you go in the world, whatever you make your living at, you'll be expected to use an apostrophe every now and again

I blame the internet for the lacking in my grammar. Thanks.

Also I usually type on a stream of consciousness and rarely go back and read over to fix typos and grammatical mistakes which often lead to many such in my posts. Apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Oranage2 · 15-01-2011 06:20AM

mrsdewinter wrote: »

OP, I admire your vision but would you please take the time to learn basic grammar and the difference between its and it's? Wherever you go in the world, whatever you make your living at, you'll be expected to use an apostrophe every now and again

And lets not forget full stops too.

15-01-2011 06:51AM

Jesus fuking christ.. This guy has equal voting rights to me?

cuppa · 15-01-2011 07:07AM

good luck in your new planet

Trog · 15-01-2011 07:25AM

In theory, you're right, OP, money, like everything else, only has value because we give it value. So a unilateral refusal to recognise our current world economy would render the banks etc. completely powerless.

However, there is a huge gap between theory and practise, and the fact of the matter is that no matter how many of us average people decide not to recognise money or debt, the people with the power will always have enough power to keep their system going. Even if 70 per cent of americans refused to recognise the US army as legitemate, the army would still have enough soldiers and supporters to keep running and outlast their opposition. Even if 90 per cent of Irish people decided not to recognise national debt, the govenrnment would still have enough legislation and supporters to withsand the opposition.

Think about it this way- say we all, as citezens, worldwide, say we don't want to recognise this debt system we have going on.
Now china, for example, who are currently both powerful and on top economically, are not going to be happy about this. So the governments worldwide, with a view to not pissing china off, are going to do everything they can to recognise the debt system. So they stert bringing law into the equasion. Now it's a legal requirement to pay your taxes and recognise the system. The amount of people willing to withstand legal pressure in favour of fairer worldwide economics is a lot lower than the amount of people willing to subscribe to a general idea that the world's economy is unfair. Once people feel they may be prosecuted, they will start trying to save their skins.

Perhaps you're right, perhaps we just need to stop investing so much value into this msystem of money that we have. Perhaps we could stop recognising money as valuable. But this is so unlikely to actually happen in reality that people are going to dismiss your theoretically valid point as ridiculous. Unfortunately, the world just doesn't conform to ideas like we'd like it to. Ideas must conform to the existing systems within the world to even be considered.

newmug · 15-01-2011 07:54AM

af_thefragile wrote: »

I'm in a good college doing studying for a decent degree, I won't have much problem getting a job and settling in life.

I only buy things I need, I never buy anything on credit and I plan on leaving the country after I graduate. I don't owe anyone anything!
And I've vowed to never take a loan in my life. Not on interest anyway. I'ld accept investors interested in sharing profits and losses. I don't even have a credit card!

I just like to see what are people's opinions on the things I post and the general level of concern and apathy among the people towards such matters.

My opinion is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh to be young and innocent again................. like 4 years old!

See Fragle, the problem is this:

1) You WILL find it hard to get a job when you leave college. Thats life. But lets say you emigrate and find one.

2) Then, you WILL need somewhere to live. Lets say you take home $500 in your new job (brilliant for a starting wage!), and you find a grand little apartment for $100 per week, so you're now left with $400

3) You WILL need to eat. Say $50 per week. So you're down to $350 left.

4) You WILL need transport, clothes, electricity, heating oil etc., so say thats another $100 per week on average. Now you have $250 left.

5) Assuming you remain a batchelor for the rest of your life, and dont have kids to feed and clothe, there WILL be other unforseen expenses. Say you buy a car every 4 years for 10 grand, thats $50 a week on average.

So Fragle, you have $200 to save at the end of each week. Thats $10,400 in savings per year. That means, to buy a very mediocre semi-d either in Ireland or some similar western country, say at $208,000, would take you 20 YEARS to save for! If you're 23 now, you'll be 43 when you have enough to start looking:eek::eek::eek:

Most people say "Feck that, life's too short. I'll borrow it now, live my life, and pay it back in manageable chunks over my lifetime". If you do that, you save the extra for the interest by cutting out rent straight away, your home is your own, it would be much bigger than a dingy $100 apartment, you're your own boss in it, and you can always sell it.

As you know, this is the option most people go for!

So pressing the reset button on the worlds economy or not, you cannot change the factor of time. Its a balance between having what you want now and paying a bit extra in interest for it, or letting life pass you by while you save for something and then die. There will always be banks, and interest, and loans.

15-01-2011 07:54AM

While the rich and powerful are, well, rich and powerful, the reset button will never be pressed.

Only when money becomes effectivly worthless, then they'll press it and replace it with something else that allows them to remain rich and powerful!

Trog · 15-01-2011 08:01AM

newmug wrote: »

So pressing the reset button on the worlds economy or not, you cannot change the factor of time. Its a balance between having what you want now and paying a bit extra in interest for it, or letting life pass you by while you save for something and then die. There will always be banks, and interest, and loans.

Yeah, but, and hear me out on this, how about I just make **** loads now and not worry about any of that?

kjl · 15-01-2011 08:05AM

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't believe in the method. The only way to eliminate greed for money is to remove it from the equation. This would not be an easy task, but it could be done.

Stompbox · 15-01-2011 09:16AM

kjl wrote: »

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't believe in the method. The only way to eliminate greed for money is to remove it from the equation. This would not be an easy task, but it could be done.

How could it be done? Lest we forget, money is the fundamental cornerstone of trade the world over. If we could not conduct our trade in a civilised manner (as money allows us to do), and without an standardised index of value, society would become anarchical.

newmug · 15-01-2011 09:22AM

Trog wrote: »

Yeah, but, and hear me out on this, how about I just make **** loads now and not worry about any of that?

Great idea! Some people do, either through hard work, talent, or a business, or just plain luck! Then they become rich!

But then, other people who need money borrow from them, and when the borrowers fall on hard times, they cry out "ah but I dont feel like paying you back! Why cant we just press a giant economic reset button!"

SEE OP?????

bonerm · 15-01-2011 10:16AM

It can't be done but I agree with the OP's sentiments. It's funny how in life we take things like inflation, debt, loans and recessions for granted when imho it shouldn't be that way. When I say to someone you'd be better off saving for an item rather than getting a loan or buying on credit they look at me blankly like they don't even know what I'm talking about. Whether in personal life or business it's just the accepted norm to get now and then spend the rest of your life paying it back over-the-odds. It's sickening really.

futonic · 15-01-2011 10:42AM

While the big button is a little simplistic, surely inflation, is just that, albeit a little slower!

Inflate by 10% a year and after 10 years your 1000 euro loan becomes 348 euro, after 20years 121 Euro.

Is that not a reset button?

15-01-2011 11:45AM

OP:
http://www.lietaer.com/2010/03/the-worgl-experiment/

Guess how that one ended - the banks

Why can't we neutralise the world and start again?

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