Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

Turnstyle · 14-12-2010 01:10PM

Riskymove wrote: »

PS pay is around a third of overall expenditure

not sure if that figure is 100% correct but it says it all for me, and what does Joe taxpayer get in return... crock of sh*t service and attitude, thats what!

Twin-go · 14-12-2010 01:12PM

PS workers always say that this is a average number and I'm not earning more than in the Private secter etc. etc.

Ok then, Question is WHY is the average higher? and How can the average be reduced to a level that is sustainable for the country?

If a private business cannot afford to make it's payments they will take measures to reduce those payments. Reducing wages and letting staff go.

We need to start running this country more like a business and less like a social club.

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:19PM

Japer wrote: »

Public service paybill in 1999 was only 9 billion.

and the trends in these high level averages were probably the same then too; even more evidence of your misrepresentation of them

Even the dogs in the street

or your friends in the pub?

And do'nt crib about inflation.....blah blah.

I did not mention it

given those things you mention do you think private sector pay should also go back to 1999 levels?

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:25PM

Twin-go wrote: »

Ok then, Question is WHY is the average higher?

because its simply an average for two different groupings of workers

one is a gruping of 300,000 odd workers and the other a grouping of 1.5m

the chances of the averages being similar are unlikely, considering some factors such as:

there being more minimum wage level and super high level wages in the private sector

more part-time work in the private sector

fixed scales of salary for PS as oppossed to more individualisation in private

etc

How can the average be reduced to a level that is sustainable for the country?

a 'sustainable' average means little in reaching that point. Much more focussed analysis would be required

Twin-go · 14-12-2010 01:26PM

Riskymove wrote: »

given those things you mention do you think private sector pay should also go back to 1999 levels?

Private Sector pay will depend on what the employers can afford to pay. If the business is profitable pay will be maintained or increased.

If the Business is loosing money workers may be hit with reduced working hours or 10% - 15% wage reduction or loss of their job altogether.

Private sector workers don't opperate in some sort of cocoon insulated from the harsh reality of the current economic climate in Ireland.

fliball123 · 14-12-2010 01:28PM

Riskymove wrote: »

because its simply an average for two different groupings of workers

one is a gruping of 300,000 odd workers and the other a grouping of 1.5m

the chances of the averages being similar are unlikely, considering some factors such as:

there being more minimum wage level and super high level wages in the private sector

more part-time work in the private sector

fixed scales of salary for PS as oppossed to more individualisation in private

etc

a 'sustainable' average means little in reaching that point. Much more focussed analysis would be required

sorry stats show that the lowering of the min wage affect 4% of the overall population...part time work also in the public sector

The fact is its the average guys which means that the whole fcuking place needs to be slashed

ei.sdraob · 14-12-2010 01:29PM

they were even nice enough to provide a graph, so much for "drastic" cuts

Japer · 14-12-2010 01:30PM

Riskymove wrote: »

do you think private sector pay should also go back to 1999 levels?

Some people in the private sector would love to be earning the same money they did in 1999.

The point is, given the IMF is here + the country is bust, why should the public service in Ireland be paid 49% more per hour than the private sector ? In most other countries private sector pay is usually more than public sector pay, as private sector does not have the same security, pensions etc.

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:30PM

Twin-go wrote: »

Private Sector pay will depend on what the employers can afford to pay. If the business is profitable pay will be maintained or increased.

PS does not operate to make a profit so obviously that does not fit

in any event there are plenty of profitable firms which pay very little in wages so I think the truth is that private sector pays as little as it can to maximise profits

Japer was making the point that as things cost what they did or less in 1999 then people should be able to make do on 1999 wages...does this not apply to private sector? ......shoud private sector employers not feel they are overpaying their staff?

If the Business is loosing money workers may be hit with reduced working hours or 10% - 15% wage reduction or loss of their job altogether.

er....perhaps you have not followed the last few budgets

Private sector workers don't opperate in some sort of cocoon insulated from the harsh reality of the current economic climate in Ireland.

I'll again direct you to the stats on certain sectors

man.about.town · 14-12-2010 01:31PM

dissed doc wrote: »

Private sector doctors make considerably more than their public sector counterparts.

you deserve more my good sir, i always regards doctors in the highest of esteem

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:33PM

Japer wrote: »

Some people in the private sector would love to be earning the same money they did in 1999.

I agree but some I know would laugh at the idea...so there you go

so then you agree that private sector wages should go back to 1999 levels

man.about.town · 14-12-2010 01:36PM

Turnstyle wrote: »

not sure if that figure is 100% correct but it says it all for me, and what does Joe taxpayer get in return... crock of sh*t service and attitude, thats what!

id like to say first of all, im not a civil servant, second of all, you cant say that we get a crock of **** service. have you ever been sick or known anyone who was, the hse do a great job for the ill, worth every penny of my taxes, i also think the fireman, police etc do an exceptional job. turnstyle - do us all a favour and get off the dole, thats one way to help the economy

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:37PM

sorry stats show that the lowering of the min wage affect 4% of the overall population...part time work also in the public sector

such things still affect the average

The fact is its the average guys which means that the whole fcuking place needs to be slashed

there you go ...thats exactly the misrepresentation that is made with these stats...the idea that the 'average' or 'usual' public servant earns this amount...complete nonsense

the average private sector wage is set at around €600 a week does that mean i should assume most private sector workers earn that amount?

Japer · 14-12-2010 01:41PM

Riskymove wrote: »

so then you agree that private sector wages should go back to 1999 levels

You cannot change the market place and force the exact same paycut on 1,800,000 people. Some peole in the private sector are earning less than they did in 1999, some are earning more....that is the way of the free, developed world. We are not a 1950's communist state....except perhaps we are in the sense those employed by the government are the elite, in that they are paid 49% more, have greater security + pensions etc.
Time the IMF did what it did in Latvia and slash public sector wages, which it did there, even they were a lot lower than ours.

fliball123 · 14-12-2010 01:44PM

Riskymove wrote: »

such things still affect the average

there you go ...thats exactly the misrepresentation that is made with these stats...the idea that the 'average' or 'usual' public servant earns this amount...complete nonsense

the average private sector wage is set at around €600 a week does that mean i should assume most private sector workers earn that amount?

Hang on its the average in both sectors Risky...There are lots of peopl earning over 150k in the private sector which would skew this upwards...The P.S is grosly overpaid.. The average is the average...There is a skewdness in both sectors.....We can no longer afford to pay them at this level and dont confuse the levy as a cut its a contribution to very very generous pension...so they have taken about 7 - 10% I think they need at least another 20% cut

The Muppet · 14-12-2010 01:46PM

Japer wrote: »

Some people in the private sector would love to be earning the same money they did in 1999.

The point is, given the IMF is here + the country is bust, why should the public service in Ireland be paid 49% more per hour than the private sector ? In most other countries private sector pay is usually more than public sector pay, as private sector does not have the same security, pensions etc.

Are you going to back up your claim about security men in the PS or are you just going to jump from one ridiculous claim to another without a shred of evidence to back up those claims?

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:49PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Hang on its the average in both sectors Risky...

err.. thats my point...you are the one suggesting taht the stats relate to the 'average guys' whoever they are

There are lots of peopl earning over 150k in the private sector which would skew this upwards...

and there are lots earning low amounts too, in fact I imagine, given the numbers involved it would take a lot more high earners to move the private sector average up than the ps average

I think they need at least another 20% cut

you are entitled to your opinion

Twin-go · 14-12-2010 01:50PM

Riskymove wrote: »

because its simply an average for two different groupings of workers

one is a gruping of 300,000 odd workers and the other a grouping of 1.5m

the chances of the averages being similar are unlikely, considering some factors such as:

there being more minimum wage level and super high level wages in the private sector

more part-time work in the private sector

fixed scales of salary for PS as oppossed to more individualisation in private

etc

a 'sustainable' average means little in reaching that point. Much more focussed analysis would be required

but do you a least agree that as a country we are paying too much for our Public sector? And, We cannot afford to continue to spend at these levels?

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:50PM

The Muppet wrote: »

Are you going to back up your claim about security men in the PS or are you just going to jump from one ridiculous claim to another without a shred of evidence to back up those claims?

I think that is what we call a rethorical question in this forum!

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 01:52PM

Twin-go wrote: »

but do you a least agree that as a country we are paying too much for our Public sector?

yes

And, We cannot afford to continue to spend at these levels?

yes

I have gone into these issues many times before and dont intend to repeat again...this thread is about the CSO stats and my ongoing (years now) issue with japer's representation of them

Tim Robbins · 14-12-2010 01:54PM

Turnstyle wrote: »

The cost of PS is strangling this country and the dogs in the street even know it, period!

I used to think the same but I don't anymore.

If that was the case, the IMF / EU would have been fixated about it. The facts are they didn't give a cr*p about it. The biggest problem by far is the banks.

The public sector have taken three cuts:

1. The pension levy
2. The wage cuts
3. The recruitment freeze which has meant a loss of about 10,000 workers.

You are always going to have inefficiencies in any large organisation and any large public sector.

But the cost to the state of the public sector is less and less.

The banks are costing us more and more. Every 2 months we are given a new figure. Every 2 months we are told the latest bailout is to get the banks moving again. People have almost forgotten about NAMA now. When is this drip foeed going to end?

No-one knows exactly how much the overall cost will be.

On the contrary, we know exactly how much the public sector costs, and we have mechanisms for bringing down the cost. FG, reckon they can rid of another 30,000 through voluntary redundancy and natural sheddage.

ei.sdraob · 14-12-2010 01:55PM

Riskymove wrote: »

yes

since you agreed, how much more, in your "opinion", do you think the public servants are getting paid

fliball123 · 14-12-2010 01:56PM

Riskymove wrote: »

err.. thats my point...you are the one suggesting taht the stats relate to the 'average guys' whoever they are

and there are lots earning low amounts too, in fact I imagine, given the numbers involved it would take a lot more high earners to move the private sector average up than the ps average

you are entitled to your opinion

I never said that skewdness is always there in stats..but its also in both sectors...all that needs to be done is do in % if someone is earning 100k in the p.s 20% = 20k down if someone is earning 50k 20% = 10k down so not down as much simple mathematics

Dozen Wicked Words · 14-12-2010 01:57PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

since you agreed, how much more, in your "opinion", do you the public servants are getting paid

Not sure I understand the question, though its not aimed at me, perhaps I am missing something.

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 02:00PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

since you agreed, how much more, in your "opinion", do you the public servants are getting paid

I said we are paying too much for our PS

I did not saying all PS workers are being overpaid...I think across the board paycuts are counter-productive and a lot more focussed work is required

as I said

I have gone into these issues many times before and dont intend to repeat again...this thread is about the CSO stats and my ongoing (years now) issue with japer's representation of them

ei.sdraob · 14-12-2010 02:00PM

dooferoaks wrote: »

Not sure I understand the question, though its not aimed at me, perhaps I am missing something.

Sorry i had a typo

I was asking Riskymove since he admitted public servants are overpaid

fliball123 · 14-12-2010 02:01PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sorry i had a typo I was asking Riskymove since he admitted public servants are overpaid

The other point here is that didnt lenny put a 250k cap on P.S wages therefore trying to get rid of the skewedness of the p.s ...r

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 02:02PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said that skewdness is always there in stats..but its also in both sectors...all that needs to be done is do in % if someone is earning 100k in the p.s 20% = 20k down if someone is earning 50k 20% = 10k down so not down as much simple mathematics

a 20% once off across the board paycut for the PS would be catastrophic for large parts of the private sector imo

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 02:03PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sorry i had a typo I was asking Riskymove since he admitted public servants are overpaid

? I did not say that:rolleyes:

Turnstyle · 14-12-2010 02:03PM

man.about.town wrote: »

id like to say first of all, im not a civil servant, second of all, you cant say that we get a crock of **** service. have you ever been sick or known anyone who was, the hse do a great job for the ill, worth every penny of my taxes, i also think the fireman, police etc do an exceptional job. turnstyle - do us all a favour and get off the dole, thats one way to help the economy

I can say what i like and judging from your post i will say that your standards may be quite low?
While i wont take away from the gardai or fireservice i will from the HSE, planning authorities, RTE, list goes on... I have had sick relatives and was appalled by the condition of some hopitals and conduct in general over the years. Thats a sweeping comment, im far from being on the dole, i run my own business that creates wealth and employment in this economy and it sickens me to see where taxpayers money is flushed away

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

Comments