"Dexter" isn't as good as we all think it is (contains spoilers, all seasons)

Amtmann · 28-10-2010 05:49PM #1

I hate admitting this. But ever since the start of season 3 I've been disappointed with the show. It underwhelmed me and while season 4 had some great moments, it was riddled with plot holes and improbable plot devices, as well as sheer bad storylines. I loved the first three episodes of season 5, but the past two were very underwhelming.

Anyway, I found this critique of the show and while I disagree with a few of his points, on the whole I think he's spot on. I really hope season 5 is the last season, for the show's sake.

amacachi · 28-10-2010 07:56PM

I agree with some of that, but disagree with a lot.

I don't think the acting outside of Hall is particularly good for a Premium Cable show, the dialogue is often poor and even the sound editing can be very off-putting at times.

TBH I almost watch more out of habit than anything else. The first season was a great concept, but I would like to know what the author of that piece feels should've been done. Some of the "switches" he/she mentions were well- (if not over-) developed pieces of character development.
I loathe when people use the "Whatandyoucoulddobetter!?!!" argument, but I can't think of a huge amount else that could be done with the storyline short of making it a Badguy of the Week type show. If the lead character stayed perfect the whole time then what exactly could ever change?

karlelvis · 28-10-2010 08:12PM

amacachi wrote: »

...
TBH I almost watch more out of habit than anything else. The first season was a great concept, but I would like to know what the author of that piece feels should've been done. Some of the "switches" he/she mentions were well- (if not over-) developed pieces of character development.
I loathe when people use the "Whatandyoucoulddobetter!?!!" argument, but I can't think of a huge amount else that could be done with the storyline short of making it a Badguy of the Week type show. If the lead character stayed perfect the whole time then what exactly could ever change?

Here's the core of what bothers me, really (aside from technical problems like bad casting/bad acting, and the writing/plotting, all of which are significant):

The show began on the premise that Dexter is a monster, who's channeled his urge into a 'good' use (punishing the guilty). Yet, despite *saying* he's a monster, we almost never see it. What they've done is to take every chance to 'humanize' Dexter, including removing most of the actual killing from the show. So what we're left with is a sitcom about a guy who's confused about self-identity (he *thinks* he's something, but we almost never see him actually being that thing).

It's like having a super-hero who talks about being heroic but never fights crime; it's an artistic fraud.

Now, sure, you could make that core plot something great, but that's where the execution issues some in. The writing and plotting is NOWHERE NEAR good enough to make that work. This new season, they're committing a new Cardinal Sin; in addition to all the other problems, it's also profoundly boring.

It's a shame; the concept is brilliant, and Hall, still, is great in the part. But they give him nothing to work with.

L31mr0d · 28-10-2010 08:21PM

Can we amend the title to say that this thread will contain spoilers up to the most currently aired US episode?

For me, the show just hasn't been the same since

Doakes

was killed, and

Quinn

is a poor mans replacement.

I do feel like it is going through the motions atm, and not covering any new ground. I'd hoped they'd be wrapping it up this season, but it looks (currently) like they are going to drag it out for another season.

Plus, LaGuerta and Batistas sub-plot is mind numbingly boring... every episode I grit my teeth when I see we are going to get some more needless insight into their pointless relationship. If you are going to have a sub-plot, center it around Vince "Sugar" Masuka, who, next to Dexter, is the most interesting character in the show.

SDTimeout · 28-10-2010 10:10PM

The thing i'll disagree with most. His point about the opening of season two.

Wasn't Dexter under the impression that he was dropping them into a gulf stream. I remember him checking something before he dropped the bodies. It was a stream that carried the bodies away. So when they were found it was more an accident and miscalculation on his part.

Abelloid · 28-10-2010 10:13PM

Furet wrote: »

I hate admitting this. But ever since the start of season 3 I've been disappointed with the show. It underwhelmed me and while season 4 had some great moments, it was riddled with plot holes and improbable plot devices, as well as sheer bad storylines. I loved the first three episodes of season 5, but the past two were very underwhelming.

Anyway, I found this critique of the show and while I disagree with a few of his points, on the whole I think he's spot on. I really hope season 5 is the last season, for the show's sake.

He has got very sloppy, and I can't see how they can continue the story and still retain some credibility.

Still enjoy watching it.

Amtmann · 28-10-2010 10:41PM

L31mr0d wrote: »

Plus, LaGuerta and Batistas sub-plot is mind numbingly boring... every episode I grit my teeth when I see we are going to get some more needless insight into their pointless relationship. If you are going to have a sub-plot, center it around Vince "Sugar" Masuka, who, next to Dexter, is the most interesting character in the show.

Season One did a good job developing the characters of Deb, Batista and Doakes, but since then it's been all Deb and Dexter. None of the other characters have been developed at all since then. They use Masuka more; but this is only really for comic relief. The pointlessness of Batista's relationship with another cop in season 3 was revealed when they ditched her character for season 4. Rita wasn't developed beyond season 2 and was actually out of character for all of season 4. A good show has many well-developed characters... Dexter doesn't unfortunately. What have they done with Quinn throughout seasons 3 and 4? Precious little really.

SDTimeout wrote: »

The thing i'll disagree with most. His point about the opening of season two.

Wasn't Dexter under the impression that he was dropping them into a gulf stream. I remember him checking something before he dropped the bodies. It was a stream that carried the bodies away. So when they were found it was more an accident and miscalculation on his part.

No. Dexter knew the bodies just sank. He decided to dump them towards the Gulf Stream only when all the corpses were discovered at the start of season 2. I didn't like accepting this point in that website's critique, since I loved season 2, but actually it was pretty dumb of Dexter to just sink his bodies there. But it pales into insignificance given his stunts as Kyle Butler. He would have been caught by now if the show was realistic, purely because of the events of season four's Road Kill. Kyle Butler booked into a hotel with Arthur and ate out with him. The FBI would have been retracing Trinity's steps and found out that he had been to Tampa with Kyle Butler, and they would have examined video footage from the motel, from the hotel and from various other sources.

Also, while I'm at it: The Trinity Bathtub Murders -- these bathtubs would have been full of Arthur's skin cells. Also, in Lost Boys, both Arthur and Dexter seem oblivious to the fact that there are always surveillance cameras in underground carparks... yet Arthur blithely bundled a boy into his car in one and Dexter ran around after him. Major plotholes here and it''s all down to bad writing.

amacachi wrote: »

I don't think the acting outside of Hall is particularly good for a Premium Cable show, the dialogue is often poor and even the sound editing can be very off-putting at times.

I have noticed a major deterioration in the cinematography in particular since season one. The show looked great in season one, with great use of colour and shots (the blood red moon in the opening shot of the pilot, the green tint when Dexter kills Matt Chambers, the more realistic skin tones, etc.) Also, LaGuerta is badly acted, and so is Quinn. Desmond Harrington has no charisma as an actor and his character has no depth. We have no idea what motivates him whatsoever.

If the lead character stayed perfect the whole time then what exactly could ever change?

I don't know, but I would make it darker and slower. I'd give us more of Dexter's weird inner monologue and less of him normalising. I'd have him as less of a nice family guy and I'd reduce the ostentatious humour. It was all good until season 3 in my opinion. That's when the rot set in I think.

amacachi · 28-10-2010 10:55PM

Furet wrote: »

I have noticed a major deterioration in the cinematography in particular since season one. The show looked great in season one, with great use of colour and shots (the blood red moon in the opening shot of the pilot, the green tint when Dexter kills Matt Chambers, the more realistic skin tones, etc.) Also, LaGuerta is badly acted, and so is Quinn. Desmond Harrington has no charisma as an actor and his character has no depth. We have no idea what motivates him whatsoever.

Aye, there are still some good bits but when I'm watching it it just doesn't seem as well bolted together as it should. For me season 1 seemed to just work somehow, even though I remember thinking at the time that some of the actors were pretty poor and that bits and pieces of the dialogue weren't great, but I suppose a good plot and cinematography can cover over such things for a while.

I don't know, but I would make it darker and slower. I'd give us more of Dexter's weird inner monologue and less of him normalising. I'd have him as less of a nice family guy and I'd reduce the ostentatious humour. It was all good until season 3 in my opinion. That's when the rot set in I think.

It's a hard one to call. Don't get me wrong, I accept a lot of the criticisms but I do think that the premise is more limiting than people think at first. I also don't like the normalisation of Dexter as a person but when a show goes on this long, as I said, there has to be some kind of development. I suppose maybe the TV companies didn't want to go too dark in case it stepped on the toes of their fledgling Vampire TV Shows departments. :pac:

Some of the plot holes are gaping though, especially with the depiction of law enforcement. Though on the skin cells in the bathtub thing I have to wonder how easy it would be to find them firstly, and secondly they hadn't got Mitchell on file anyway. There are some other holes that are indefensible though. Perhaps watching The Wire has ruined all other even slightly cop-related shows for me. :pac: Also Breaking Bad seems to have managed something brilliant with its cinematography that few other shows I've seen have matched, it's just a beautifully arranged and shot show, which Dexter unfortunately hasn't been for a while.

EDIT: Also, it may just be me, but even things like the slow or hazy bits when Dexter is thinking just haven't matched up to season 1 at all somehow, like it's all a bit too cheesey or contrived or something when it didn't used to be.

strobe · 29-10-2010 06:44AM

Meh, there are only maybe two or three tv shows in the last ten or 15 years that I have watched from the first episode and haven't been able to expose plenty of continuity errors and plot gaps in without even trying particularly hard. Same goes for big budget movies btw. This is a common feature of prime time tv shows, and is magnifies the longer they run. You are left with three options. 1. Spend your time picking away at these mistakes. 2. Do a bit of fan wankery to explain them away or 3. Accept it happens and enjoy the show regardless. I go for 3 in general.

I think Dexter's great but it's a US TV show we are talking about here, not classic literature, I think some people might be expecting a bit much.

karlelvis · 29-10-2010 06:42PM

strobe wrote: »

I think Dexter's great but it's a US TV show we are talking about here, not classic literature, I think some people might be expecting a bit much.

Oh come now. Compare to:

Deadwood
The Shield
The Sopranos
Sons of Anarchy
Mad Men
The Wire
Treme

No. We're not expecting too much.

Hell though, those are not fair, sure, they're some of the best ever. But how about, say, True Blood? There's a better comparison. Like Dexter, it's cheesy, uneven, has massive plotting and logical flaws. But they make up for it with great casting, amazing production values, and funny, clever scripting.

I'll say it again; we only expect Dexter to not suck; but right now, it sucks, and that's just sad, for a show that had potential.

Amtmann · 29-10-2010 08:40PM

karlelvis wrote: »

.

I'll say it again; we only expect Dexter to not suck; but right now, it sucks, and that's just sad, for a show that had potential.

Well, speaking for myself, I'd aim a little higher. I expect it to be great, because it is a great concept.

The series isn't dark nor weird enough, on the whole, anymore. And it's been turned into more of a comedy than I'd like. I mean check out this trailer on Amazon (scroll down). Season One had some hilarious moments - but they were all fine examples of dark humour. Now it's just ostentatious.
I don't think season 4 was as good as some others here think. The plotholes rendered much of it absurd for instance. I can suspend disbelief for the Ice Truck Killer managing to seduce Deb, but much of season 4 just took the biscuit. I especially didn't like Dexter's descent into sheer vigilantism, where he actually runs around like some sort of a cape-less Batman after Arthur.

jor el · 02-11-2010 05:06PM

amacachi wrote: »

Also, it may just be me, but even things like the slow or hazy bits when Dexter is thinking just haven't matched up to season 1 at all somehow, like it's all a bit too cheesey or contrived or something when it didn't used to be.

Not just you, Dexter's inner monologues have gone seriously down hill.

Furet wrote: »

I don't think season 4 was as good as some others here think.

The Trinity Killer was a great story line, a great character, and really well acted by John Lithgo, but the writing of a lot of the episodes was sloppy. They dug themselves in way too deep in the early episodes, and the only way out for the Dexter character was to write in blatant plot holes - like part on the roof of the housing project when Trinity was going to kill himself, everything about Kyle Butler, even Trinity managing to get to Rita before she left town and before Dexter killed him. It left a very bitter taste.

Although this season has been better than that (though with it's fair share of hiccups), the whole lack of finding Kyle Butler = Dexter thing is just stupid. That seems to have been written out of it with one throw away comment by Deb, The FBI will fuck this up just like they fuck everything else up. This would be the same FBI that brought you the greatest serial killer catcher ever - Lundy. Even Quinn's little search to identify Kyle Butler was washed over so fast, it nearly wasn't long enough to make the trailer scene out of it.

So, what's wrong with Dexter? Well, to me it's simple popularity. Season 1 was on HBO, and it showed that it was a cable program, i.e. it was very dark. After that though, it got syndicated to the networks, and all around the world. At this time, it was censored for the mainstream networks. In season 2, I noticed they started to dumb it down, and this is a trend that has continued in the following seasons. It's still a cable show, but it's being designed for the syndication. I believe this is why Rita was changed from a beard, which is how the author of that article described her, to an actual love interest for Dexter, and how Dexter turned from being a monster into a loving husband and father. The great unwashed masses simply wouldn't accept it any other way.

Popularity has killed Dexter, and as long as it's a cash cow for HBO, they won't end it. Think Friends, except this was never supposed to be a sit-com. Can't wait for the Masouka spin-off though :pac:

Spazdarn · 02-12-2010 11:18AM

I think some people are a little hard on the Dexter character, we would be giving out if there was no progression in his character from season 1 to current episodes. He was cold, unloving and empty at the beginning and through his eventually love for Rita and being with the kids he's become more normal, more human. With this change his priorities aren't as focused as they used to be, so the character is more prone to mistakes...

I agree Quinn is pretty wooden and doesn't add much really... maybe this new character, the PI will spice it up...

Agree with there being a bit of a decline in the show but I rarely see any program that I loved for the first 2 seasons, maintain the level of excitement. Still a great show

Amtmann · 02-12-2010 01:10PM

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I agree Quinn is pretty wooden and doesn't add much really... maybe this new character, the PI will spice it up...

But he hasn't unfortunately. He's been on the show for about 40 seconds most episodes and episode 11 is fast approaching. We might have an exciting final two episodes, but most of the preceding ones were mediocre and riddled with stupendous plot holes.

r3nu4l · 02-12-2010 01:31PM

I think the major problem with the Dexter character is that he normalised too quickly and that in every episode from Season 2 onwards they went out of their way to show him becoming more normal.

Quinn is pointless, Doakes was by far the better (and more dangerous) character. They shouldn't have killed him off.

Catsmokinpot · 04-12-2010 02:45AM

As the story goes he was a long established serial killer from the start of the series. Am I missing something or is dexter becoming normal not supposed to be the running thread in the story?

he's been becoming more normal since the start of the show, learning something about himself and about being "normal" from every one of his kills.

I don't know how anyone can say he's normalised quickly he's hardly gone an episode without killing someone. count it up, if you include his back story, he's probably killed over 50 people.... and at least 25-30 since the show started. that's 25-30 people it took before he started feeling like his life is not working out the way he thought it would...

IMO it's one of the best shows around, what you gonna do, switch on x-factor instead? go ahead. I don't know why people give out about the acting, acting doesn't mean sh1t if the story is no good. and the story is better than most series out there. sure some of the character stories are stale, but the characters are interesting the show is full of snapshots of the human psyche. if you wanna be annoyed about something give out about lost, or about how sookie is a

f*cking fairy

I don't know how anyone can compare true-blood to dexter, as if there aren't enough vampire films and TV shows; sure its good, but its certainly not great. Everything went completely tits up from the start of the third season and it's had more than its fair share of annoying characters, and characters that the writers have totally cocked up.

You could be watching a lot worse than dexter.

Shane St. · 05-12-2010 08:12PM

dexter is brilliant

niallk · 09-12-2010 08:42AM

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

the show is full of snapshots of the human psyche.

It's not though. Having watched all 5 seasons within the last year, I can say that it's become a paint by numbers kind of show. The first couple of seasons did have some great thought provoking monologues but that has long since disappeared. I don't know if they've changed some writers or what, but they definitely spend too much time coming up with (albeit exciting) plot twists and surprises.

(Not including the whole Lumen/Leon thing which you could see coming a mile away as soon as she stopped being afraid of Dexter)

I still enjoy the show now, but in a much different and much less thoughtful way than I did when it started.

Blazer · 09-12-2010 04:00PM

Interesting discussion..loved the first 2 seasons of Dexter but eventually it began to wear off.
Killing

Doakes

was a huge huge mistake on the writer's part. I began to lose interest after that.
I still love Dexter and dismiss the plotholes so I can continue to enjoy watching it but I stopped analyzing it a long time ago.
For me Supernatural is the show that I look forward to in the week, Dexter/Chuck/True Blood have all lost their initial appeal for me and I just stick with them to see how it plays out.
True Blood especially...god so many annoying characters :mad:

Moke · 11-12-2010 09:26PM

Spoilers, if you haven't seen seasons 1-5, it'd be advisable not to read this post, just as there might be minor spoilers.

I have to disagree with the OP, they're exploring new concepts in each season. Season 1 was really just to see if it would work, if people would like it so they followed the first book. Two was about him being found out among his own people, three about a person who wants to join his ranks, four about trying to establish a family while keeping his "dark passenger" alive and this season is about saving someone. Granted you probably knew that but it just illustrates my point.

Honestly, the thing with plot holes is that, while they probably are in Dexter, they're nothing major. Hell, everything has plotholes, even life has plotholes. I love Dexter the character as well as the show so I'm obviously going to be bias. If it truly has gone horribly downhill I can truthfully state that ignorance is bliss

@above, I can agree with True Blood, though I love the character...um the Vampire area king, blonde guy, because of his role in Generation Kill. True Blood has gone the way of Heroes, they've overcomplicated things and when the vampire phase in America dies out it'll get cancelled. And when the cast stops having sex on screen.

amacachi · 11-12-2010 09:45PM

Moke wrote: »

Honestly, the thing with plot holes is that, while they probably are in Dexter, they're nothing major. Hell, everything has plotholes, even life has plotholes. I love Dexter the character as well as the show so I'm obviously going to be bias. If it truly has gone horribly downhill I can truthfully state that ignorance is bliss

There's plot holes and there's PLOT HOLES. Some of the writing-themselves-into-a-corner this season has been awful.
From the latest episode for example, massive spoilers for those who haven't seen it:
The baby monitor picking up the video feed I found a little off-putting, don't know if it's remotely likely, but the label with Miami Metro on it, I mean come on! It's so, so stupid. It's not an omission or mistake, it's a fcuk-you to the viewers.

Moke · 11-12-2010 10:23PM

amacachi wrote: »

There's plot holes and there's PLOT HOLES. Some of the writing-themselves-into-a-corner this season has been awful.
From the latest episode for example, massive spoilers for those who haven't seen it:
The baby monitor picking up the video feed I found a little off-putting, don't know if it's remotely likely, but the label with Miami Metro on it, I mean come on! It's so, so stupid. It's not an omission or mistake, it's a fcuk-you to the viewers.

Where was the Miami Metro label? It wasn't on the recording device, I'm fairly sure he noticed it via something else. And if it was, people do very stupid things all the time, things that only seem obvious with Hindsight, a mistake by a character isn't a plothole.

Marenghi · 11-01-2011 04:05AM

No the label was on the recording device. The baby monitor picking it up was ridiculous, after being in his apartment for days it decides to tune into another feed.
It was just another case of Dexter not doing anything to save himself, the plot hands it to him on a silver platter. Same with Masuka explaining away the messy murder or Deb not bothering to follow muddy footprints to the house next door where the man she knew was targeted by a vigilante killer was being murdered.

Borat_Sagdiyev · 03-08-2011 12:01PM

Moke wrote: »

Spoilers, if you haven't seen seasons 1-5, it'd be advisable not to read this post, just as there might be minor spoilers.

I have to disagree with the OP, they're exploring new concepts in each season. Season 1 was really just to see if it would work, if people would like it so they followed the first book. Two was about him being found out among his own people, three about a person who wants to join his ranks, four about trying to establish a family while keeping his "dark passenger" alive and this season is about saving someone. Granted you probably knew that but it just illustrates my point.

Honestly, the thing with plot holes is that, while they probably are in Dexter, they're nothing major. Hell, everything has plotholes, even life has plotholes. I love Dexter the character as well as the show so I'm obviously going to be bias. If it truly has gone horribly downhill I can truthfully state that ignorance is bliss

@above, I can agree with True Blood, though I love the character...um the Vampire area king, blonde guy, because of his role in Generation Kill. True Blood has gone the way of Heroes, they've overcomplicated things and when the vampire phase in America dies out it'll get cancelled. And when the cast stops having sex on screen.

I only got into Dexter recently and in the last month and a half I've watched all 5 seasons.

Loved the season with Doakes on his tail and the season with Trinity. I didn't think the others were as good but it doesn't mean I didn't enjoy them. Things like plot holes don't bother me to be honest, ever since Lost, I'm from the "enjoy what you're watching and don't bother questioning it" school of thought. Season 5 wasn't the best to be fair, but had some great moments as well:

Loved the flashback to Dexter's first date with Rita where he excuses himself and throws the lad in the car. Brilliant.

I know that if I re-watched seasons 1-5 with a pen and paper I would spot plenty of things that don't add up or aren't quite right. But like the above poster says, ignorance is bliss.

I do, however, fully understand the posters that can't enjoy a show if they spot what they perceive to be half-assed work.

silverharp · 03-08-2011 06:49PM

I just watched season 3 to 5 over the last 2 weeks for the first time. Wow! like reading a novel

. as above, could pick holes but overall no complaints. Good to see Rita out of it, the whole stretched family man angle was irritating. Would have liked more Lumen. must watch series one again just to see how the show has changed

Flashgordon197 · 08-08-2011 09:29PM

Is Season 5 finished yet? Have only seen up to season 4. A lot of what this guy writes makes sense.

While the whole idea of a Dexter is improbable-the script could make more attempts to be probable. It did occur to me in Season 2 that it was idiotic to bury bodies on a reef . Surely, having gone to all that bother and then bury dozens of bodies in one place was incredibly stupid for a supposedly bright guy.

We were told Dexter was a Psychopath but he seems to be coming more and more normal and wants to be normal as the series went on. Rita while being one attractive sexy lady never questions why DEXTER is out night and day-this is after he cheated on her and admitted a drug problem albeit a fake one.

Its still a good show and I will watch Season 5.

Flashgordon197 · 08-08-2011 09:32PM

Im surprised many here seem to watch several seasons in a few weeks. I just do about two a year at most. Does it not just wash over you if you watch it night after night? Dont you people have lives!!??

Flashgordon197 · 15-08-2011 03:02PM

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Im surprised many here seem to watch several seasons in a few weeks. I just do about two a year at most. Does it not just wash over you if you watch it night after night? Dont you people have lives!!??

Reflecting on what others have said-I suppose the whole series is about dexter becoming more normal so thats not a fair criticism.

Borat_Sagdiyev · 29-08-2011 07:14PM

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Im surprised many here seem to watch several seasons in a few weeks. I just do about two a year at most. Does it not just wash over you if you watch it night after night? Dont you people have lives!!??

Not really no

I have finished watching season 5 now, but I was really hooked when watching it - I used to watch two episodes a night, nearly seven days a week, that'll get you through it fairly quickly.

"Dexter" isn't as good as we all think it is (contains spoilers, all seasons)

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