M3 Parkway rail to Docklands - Why ?

Oliver1985 · 24-11-2010 09:14PM

What are the Loadings from m3 and Dunboyne like TheChris?

TheChrisD · 24-11-2010 10:04PM

Really can't say as when I'm on it at peak hours, I'm going out of town. Train (or at least the 3rd coach) was actually quite full leaving Docklands, with most people on it going to Coolmine and Clonsilla, but there were still about 15+ people off at Dunboyne, with a fair few more still on going onto M3.

Spokety · 25-11-2010 10:40PM

I drop my wife to the train station every morning. We purposely bypass the M3 P&R and continue on to the Phoenix Park station where she takes the train. She isn't the only Meath commuter doing this.

Fact of the matter is, no woman working in Dublin CC wants to walk past Connolly and and down Sheriff St (or the opposite) to take a train.

The problem with the M3 P&R is more than just the tolls - it's also the fact that it is the Ryanair service of IÉ. It takes you kind of near where you want to go, but also the one part of Dublin where you are guaranteed to have armed roadblocks Garda daily.

If only the Docklands station had connected directly with Luas................

Bluetonic · 25-11-2010 10:52PM

Spokety wrote: »

Fact of the matter is, no woman working in Dublin CC wants to walk past Connolly and and down Sheriff St (or the opposite) to take a train.

It takes you kind of near where you want to go, but also the one part of Dublin where you are guaranteed to have armed roadblocks Garda daily.

Fact of the matter is plenty of women walk through the IFSC daily to use Docklands. You'd think it was some hinterland you were talking about. Within a few 100 meters of the station you have many thousands of people working. In fact the buildings which house the most amount of people are closer to Docklands than Connolly (Guild House and PWC).

Bang goes that theory so, don't let that stop you though.

CIE · 25-11-2010 11:16PM

Fact of the matter is plenty of women walk through the IFSC daily to use Docklands

The IFSC isn't in the city centre. The post you're replying to refers to people (not just women) that work in the city centre, not the IFSC. Was the Docklands station built to service one complex? (never mind its distance from the main IFSC building, with Connolly far closer.)

In fact the buildings which house the most amount of people are closer to Docklands than Connolly (Guild House and PWC)

Based on that, then there ought to be trains running from Kildare to the Docklands station right now, through the Phoenix Park Tunnel. But there aren't, and passengers bound for there have to transfer to the Luas instead. Begs the question as to why they didn't build connecting tracks at Glasnevin Junction to facilitate this.

Bluetonic · 25-11-2010 11:43PM

CIE wrote: »

The IFSC isn't in the city centre.

The IFSC is in Dublin City centre, thats not up for debate.

Oliver1985 · 25-11-2010 11:57PM

Bluetonic wrote: »

The IFSC is in Dublin City centre, thats not up for debate.

Its right smack in the middle :eek:

CIE · 26-11-2010 12:00AM

Bluetonic wrote: »

The IFSC is in Dublin City centre, thats not up for debate.

It's not. It's very much up for debate.

Spokety · 26-11-2010 12:07AM

Listen, from the Spire you can get to Connolly quite easily and it's not a bad walk. The Dockland's station is off the beaten track for many and let's face it, it's Sheriff St territory.

Yeah, it's great on the map, but you ain't talking the most pleasant of neighbourhoods.

To be honest it would make my life easier in the mornings to drop my wife off at the M3 P&R, but it ain't going to be an option with the terminus option limited as it is. By the way, there are plenty of other commuters that have tried Docklands instead of Connolly and won't travel into or out of it.

Zaph · 26-11-2010 12:20AM

CIE wrote: »

Was the Docklands station built to service one complex? (never mind its distance from the main IFSC building, with Connolly far closer.)

There is no "main" IFSC building. I'm assuming you mean the original blocks where AIB and Bank of ireland are, but the IFSC now stretches all the way from Amiens Street to Guild Street, and from North Wall Quay to Harbourmaster Place, with significant office blocks throughout this area. There are a lot of people working in parts of the IFSC where Docklands is the closer station to their place of work. And since the new bridge opened the station is easily accessible for those working in the Sir John Rogerson's Quay/Grand Canal Dock area too.

CIE · 26-11-2010 02:57AM

Zaph wrote: »

There is no "main" IFSC building. I'm assuming you mean the original blocks where AIB and Bank of ireland are, but the IFSC now stretches all the way from Amiens Street to Guild Street, and from North Wall Quay to Harbourmaster Place, with significant office blocks throughout this area. There are a lot of people working in parts of the IFSC where Docklands is the closer station to their place of work. And since the new bridge opened the station is easily accessible for those working in the Sir John Rogerson's Quay/Grand Canal Dock area too.

The IFSC House with the AIB Trade Centre next door has the look of the "main" building. That one's far closer to Connolly than to Docklands station.

And like I mentioned, if the IFSC increases the Docklands station's importance that much, then there should be more commuter services going there right now. It wouldn't be too much money or rocket science to reconfigure Glasnevin Junction to allow trains from the Phoenix Park Tunnel to run via the former MGWR line to the dock. Same goes for trains from the Northern Line, since they already had planned to do it. That doesn't serve the city centre as readily as Connolly does though; and that would be the point, i.e. making Docklands a more effective commuter station for a specific purpose rather than for a general purpose.

schemingbohemia · 26-11-2010 12:24PM

Spokety wrote: »

I drop my wife to the train station every morning. We purposely bypass the M3 P&R and continue on to the Phoenix Park station where she takes the train. She isn't the only Meath commuter doing this.

Fact of the matter is, no woman working in Dublin CC wants to walk past Connolly and and down Sheriff St (or the opposite) to take a train.

The problem with the M3 P&R is more than just the tolls - it's also the fact that it is the Ryanair service of IÉ. It takes you kind of near where you want to go, but also the one part of Dublin where you are guaranteed to have armed roadblocks Garda daily.

If only the Docklands station had connected directly with Luas................

The Luas isn't exactly far away from Docklands, a 5 minute walk to Spencer Dock isn't it. I would have thought that at both rush hours there would be a distinct lack of junkies/trouble makers in the area. Have you spoken to the Garda about how many random attacks on commuters there are in the area?

KC61 · 26-11-2010 12:32PM

Spokety wrote: »

I drop my wife to the train station every morning. We purposely bypass the M3 P&R and continue on to the Phoenix Park station where she takes the train. She isn't the only Meath commuter doing this.

Fact of the matter is, no woman working in Dublin CC wants to walk past Connolly and and down Sheriff St (or the opposite) to take a train.

The problem with the M3 P&R is more than just the tolls - it's also the fact that it is the Ryanair service of IÉ. It takes you kind of near where you want to go, but also the one part of Dublin where you are guaranteed to have armed roadblocks Garda daily.

If only the Docklands station had connected directly with Luas................

There is no need to walk down Sherriff Street to get to Docklands.

Either take a LUAS to Spencer Dock stop, or walk along Mayor Street over the new bridge over the Royal Canal, and then take a shortcut through the apartments on the left and this will bring you under Sherriff Street bridge and directly into the station.

The distance from the LUAS stop to Docklands Station is about 3 minutes walk.

ongarboy · 26-11-2010 01:24PM

Spokety wrote: »

I drop my wife to the train station every morning. We purposely bypass the M3 P&R and continue on to the Phoenix Park station where she takes the train. She isn't the only Meath commuter doing this.

Fact of the matter is, no woman working in Dublin CC wants to walk past Connolly and and down Sheriff St (or the opposite) to take a train.

The problem with the M3 P&R is more than just the tolls - it's also the fact that it is the Ryanair service of IÉ. It takes you kind of near where you want to go, but also the one part of Dublin where you are guaranteed to have armed roadblocks Garda daily.

If only the Docklands station had connected directly with Luas................

Would your wife not consider taking the train from M3 Parkway and then get off at Clonsilla and wait 5-8 minutes for a connecting train bound for Connolly/Tara/Pearse etc there and likewise in the evening? It would surely save you (and cost of fuel in your car) that extra time driving her all the way into Phoenix Park station. I see a lot of people using Clonsilla now as a transfer station for this purpose (ie Dockland users changing here for Maynooth/Longford services and M3/Dunboyne for "traditional" city centre services/Dart connections.

On a seperate note, I notice the trains from M3/Dunboyne are a lot busier when they arrive at Clonsilla now compared to a couple of months ago so patronage is increasing from that area. I imagine word of mouth of the benefits by local residents is one of the main reasons of this.

thomasj · 26-11-2010 02:22PM

Just as an aside the city centre resignalling page on the transport 21 website states the following benefit

It will provide the necessary capacity through the city centre to cater for other projects within the greater Dublin area such as the additional services on the Clonsilla-Dunboyne /Navan line and the DART Underground (Interconnector).

foggy_lad · 26-11-2010 03:28PM

ongarboy wrote: »

Would your wife not consider taking the train from M3 Parkway and then get off at Clonsilla and wait 5-8 minutes for a connecting train bound for Connolly/Tara/Pearse etc there and likewise in the evening? It would surely save you (and cost of fuel in your car) that extra time driving her all the way into Phoenix Park station. I see a lot of people using Clonsilla now as a transfer station for this purpose (ie Dockland users changing here for Maynooth/Longford services and M3/Dunboyne for "traditional" city centre services/Dart connections.

There may not be room on the connecting train! the Maynooth trains at rush-hour are packed/overcrowded usually so there could be a long wait in Clonsilla.

schemingbohemia · 26-11-2010 03:36PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

There may not be room on the connecting train! the Maynooth trains at rush-hour are packed/overcrowded usually so there could be a long wait in Clonsilla.

Not in Clonsilla they're not.

ongarboy · 26-11-2010 03:36PM

Seperately, I noticed a fair few trucks/construction type vehicles with rotating flashing lights etc on the track road from the unopened Hansfield station back to the Ongar road this morning. Could this mean there is a start being made on the access road?? I got my hopes up about 8 weeks ago when they had started with building of footpaths on the same road but that seemed to be more to do with finishing off the estate of unoccupied section of houses in that side of Barnwell Hansfield. I'm hoping this latest round of activity is to do with finishing the access road.

I think the developer is stuck by the fact that they will be unable to sell the remaining already built houses in Hansfield without the station open as an incentive to buyers so that will be the only motivation for them to complete this access road.

TheChrisD · 27-11-2010 07:47AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

There may not be room on the connecting train! the Maynooth trains at rush-hour are packed/overcrowded usually so there could be a long wait in Clonsilla.

It's usually Coolmine where they get massively packed. Clonsilla's not that bad, but Castleknock can be dire.

foggy_lad · 28-11-2010 12:46PM

TheChrisD wrote: »

It's usually Coolmine where they get massively packed. Clonsilla's not that bad, but Castleknock can be dire.

coming out from Connolly or Docklands i would have to say that an empty train is far more comfortable than a dangerously overcrowded one so the short walk to Docklands station is worth peace of mind and the decreased risk of fainting on a poorly ventilated railcart.

Transportuser09 · 29-11-2010 12:46AM

It's not ideal but if Connolly doesn't have the capacity then what can be done? There's no room for more platforms there (sidings, carpark, emergency access all needed, no where else to go) so surely a service to the Docklands is better than none.

I doubt the trains are completely full at Clonsilla. In any case standing is a fact of suburban commuter life. You'll find it on the Luas, the Dart, Dublin Bus, Drogheda commuter, Paris Metro, London Underground, New York subway...

foggy_lad · 29-11-2010 01:39AM

Transportuser09 wrote: »

It's not ideal but if Connolly doesn't have the capacity then what can be done? There's no room for more platforms there (sidings, carpark, emergency access all needed, no where else to go) so surely a service to the Docklands is better than none.

I doubt the trains are completely full at Clonsilla. In any case standing is a fact of suburban commuter life. You'll find it on the Luas, the Dart, Dublin Bus, Drogheda commuter, Paris Metro, London Underground, New York subway...

I'm talking about it being so overcrowded that if you fainted you would not fall down it is such a crush on peak time trains!

CIE · 29-11-2010 06:54AM

Transportuser09 wrote: »

It's not ideal but if Connolly doesn't have the capacity then what can be done? There's no room for more platforms there (sidings, carpark, emergency access all needed, no where else to go) so surely a service to the Docklands is better than none

They've spent money to reduce capacity at Connolly. Your money and the money of your relatives of past (and future) generations. The station location even lost a through track. It would cost far less to the public to improve Connolly back to and beyond its former state, as well as building cross-connections at Glasnevin Junction to allow use of the PPT. Maybe someone ought to suggest that as the more "austere" improvement versus prematurely retiring a fleet of over a hundred DMUs and erecting electrification infrastructure that can't be afforded at present (electrification costs at least as much as building a whole new railway).

I doubt the trains are completely full at Clonsilla. In any case standing is a fact of suburban commuter life. You'll find it on the Luas, the Dart, Dublin Bus, Drogheda commuter, Paris Metro, London Underground, New York subway...

FTR, not all of those rail vehicles and/or services are truly equal or equivalent, but your point is valid overall. And of course, being a standee on a bus has to be expected during rush hour.

TheChrisD · 01-12-2010 06:05AM

Well I definitely think these services will be packed tomorrow morning, just noticed on the Dublin Bus site that neither than 70 nor the 270 were actually serving Dunboyne for some time yesterday, only going as far as just past Clonee.

EDIT: Unless it's like yesterday morning where the Dunboyne/M3 services were suspended for a while due to blocked points.

Halve_ZOL · 02-12-2010 02:41PM

I see the service to M3 Parkway is running again. Does that mean Docklands Station reopened? Or are they still running from Connolly?

KC61 · 02-12-2010 03:43PM

I would say Connolly - that means that they do not have to change the points at Glasnevin Junction thereby eliminating a potential delay to services.

CIE · 02-12-2010 04:36PM

If to Connolly, are they bypassing Drumcondra station?

I recall the Maynooth service running via two routes during its early years; when it departed from Platform 7 at Connolly, it would sometimes run via Newcomen Junction and the MGWR North Wall line. Funny how they had to re-lay all of that freight line to access the Docklands location after having it mostly torn up in the past...

wavehopper1 · 01-03-2011 06:19PM

I get the 8.10 train from Parkway (first stop) to Docklands. A few stations on, the train stops mid-station for between 5-8 minutes. I've only been a regular for two weeks, but this has happened every day.

Can anyone confirm if this happens at the earlier or later departure times?

And has it been this way on the 8.10 since Christmas (i.e. likely to continue)? I don't understand why they don't change the start time if it's a regular thing.

TheChrisD · 01-03-2011 06:54PM

wavehopper1 wrote: »

I get the 8.10 train from Parkway (first stop) to Docklands. A few stations on, the train stops mid-station for between 5-8 minutes. I've only been a regular for two weeks, but this has happened every day.

This is probably related to the rest of the schedule on that line. The two trains ahead of you on that line are the 7:50 departure from Maynooth (Clonsilla at 8:13), and the 5:45 from Sligo (at Maynooth at 8:10 and Drumcondra at 8:38).

Based on the timetable of the Sligo train needing to be at Drumcondra at the same time as the M3 Parkway departure stops at Broombridge, the Sligo train would need to be in front of the Parkway one. Any delay in the line from earlier trains, say from the Maynooth train running a few minutes late, will have a knock-on effect on the rest of the line for a while.

Also the Parkway trains tend to get to the Clonsilla junction a little ahead of time seeing as Hansfield isn't open yet despite being timetabled in. Maybe once Hansfield opens it won't be as much of a delay, but bear in mind that delays can still happen.

EDIT: Also, this sort of waiting happens all throughout the day, I've been on a few trains mid-afternoon which have done the same thing. It may also be holding a train for a few minutes to reduce the amount of time that the Clonsilla level crossing needs to be held open, as I know that at some points during the day it can be closed for road traffic for up to 10 minutes at a time.

dowlingm · 02-03-2011 04:51AM

Any progress on getting Hansfield open?

M3 Parkway rail to Docklands - Why ?

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