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LET'S GROW OUR WAY OUT OF THIS RECESSION!!!!!

  • 25-10-2010 11:27AM
    #1
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭


    I work for myself in the Midlands, sourcing fresh Vegetables from local growers & Selling them to local people, what i cant understand is why more farmers don't grow vegetables because we don't have enough to last us throughout the year, i know this because i worked in the market in Smithfeild in Dublin & for example now, we a importing English broccoli, French cauliflower, Spanish tomatoes, onions, cucumber, scallions & lots more food than i care to mention & come February carrots from the middle east?, it might be a bit naive but why don't we grow as much food here as we can, even export it instead of importing it, creating 1000s of jobs, it a simple solution to a big problem i don't know why it hasn't been thought of yet, also apart from all the veg we can grow there is plenty of fruits too, maybe there is something i don't know, but its very frustrating seeing our country suffering the way it is??


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Comments

  • #2
    hitman79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭hitman79


    Sounds like a good idea to me. My family owns 20 acres which is idle and i reckon i will soon be made redundant so its something i might look into :D


  • #3
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    hitman79 wrote: »
    Sounds like a good idea to me. My family owns 20 acres which is idle and i reckon i will soon be made redundant so its something i might look into :D

    Hi There, if you look at it this way 1 acre = on advarge 12 tons of rooster potato x20 acres = 240 tons, which is 24000 x 10kg Bags of rooster at present Rooster potato sells for 5euro which means you could make 120000 euro, now depending on your costs which im not sure would be im sure you whould earn a living & also employ other people to help you, & remember no vat on food,


  • #4
    hitman79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭hitman79


    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    Hi There, if you look at it this way 1 acre = on advarge 12 tons of rooster potato x20 acres = 240 tons, which is 24000 x 10kg Bags of rooster at present Rooster potato sells for 5euro which means you could make 120000 euro, now depending on your costs which im not sure would be im sure you whould earn a living & also employ other people to help you, & remember no vat on food,

    What sort of money would it cost to grow 20 acres of roosters? Family sold tractor and machinery years ago so would have to buy them too. Didnt realise there was no vat on food. Cheers for the heads up.


  • #5
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Ok some maths


    90 billion - Current National Debt
    +
    90 billion - Bank Bailout
    +
    ?? billion - NAMA
    +
    ?? billion - lost opportunity costs due to government ****ing about for 2 years
    +
    40 billion - debt taken on between now and 2014 assuming the targets are meant (big IF)
    +
    ?? billion - yearly interest payments on all this debt being taken on at large interest
    =
    **** load of money for which you be exporting spuds until the sun burns out and not pay it back :D


    now on more positive note our exports are strong, thank god
    but with all the talk of increasing taxation and no gains in competitiveness
    we wont be getting out of this recession with exports alone, especially agricultural exports


  • #6
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    hitman79 wrote: »
    What sort of money would it cost to grow 20 acres of roosters? Family sold tractor and machinery years ago so would have to buy them too. Didnt realise there was no vat on food. Cheers for the heads up.

    The best thing you can do without shying away from it because of start up costs is find some that has equipment, maybe a local farmer who is in the same boat, for the 1st year they provide the tractor & other things you need for a share in the profit, I'm not sure how much your potato seed will cost & also you will have to spray it, but you can find out all this through www.teagasc.ie your 1st year start small so you get a feel for it, also keep in mind of all the other Vegetables you can grow, the farmer i get food off grows, rooster, record, golden wonder potato, carrots, parsnips, cabbage, scallions, turnips, broccoli, brussel sprouts, onions, beetroot & lettuce so you have lots of products to choose from, growing & picking during the week & selling to local people, people love fresh food.


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  • #7
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Ok some maths


    90 billion - Current National Debt
    +
    90 billion - Bank Bailout
    +
    ?? billion - NAMA
    +
    ?? billion - lost opportunity costs due to government ****ing about for 2 years
    +
    40 billion - debt taken on between now and 2014 assuming the targets are meant (big IF)
    +
    ?? billion - yearly interest payments on all this debt being taken on at large interest
    =
    **** load of money for which you be exporting spuds until the sun burns out and not pay it back :D


    now on more positive note our exports are strong, thank god
    but with all the talk of increasing taxation and no gains in competitiveness
    we wont be getting out of this recession with exports alone, especially agricultural exports

    I know were in debt, its not just potatos we can grow but lots of other things too, crossing our fingers & hoping & sticking our heads in the sand, isn't good enough any more, all i know is the more self sufficient we get, the more jobs we will create & the better the country will be for all of us, you've to keep positive & just because were in a hole now doesn't mean we have to stay there till someone else pulls us out !!!!


  • #8
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    I know were in debt, its not just potatos we can grow but lots of other things too, crossing our fingers & hoping & sticking our heads in the sand, isn't good enough any more, all i know is the more self sufficient we get, the more jobs we will create & the better the country will be for all of us, you've to keep positive & just because were in a hole now doesn't mean we have to stay there till someone else pulls us out !!!!

    Supply and demand my friend

    dumping a lot of (perishable) food on markets will lower prices, the EU market is over-saturated with food, hell they are paying farmers to not to grow things

    so that leaves developing countries but that means {much longer supply lines, dealing with all sorts of trade barriers etc} oh and being able to grow food with less costs than competitors good luck there with our high fuel rates and beuracracy when it comes to any business, especially farming

    maybe if we can somehow tap into the growing Chinese and Indian markets and somehow manage to deliver them fresh quality food cheaply, somehow...


    anyway why do you keep saying "our"?


  • #9
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #10
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Why do we have to sell it abroad?

    Why can't we sell a proportion of it locally here...cheaper than the imported food coz it hasn't travelled miles....driving costs down....which is what we're all about these days.

    Stop raining on parades, people, and back up ideas. I'm living in the market garden centre of this country (north Dublin). Veg is sold on the side of the roads and in the back gardens. Don't spend a penny in Tescos etc, get the stuff for a good price and really fresh. Having travelled extensively...we have some of the best quality food in the world in this country. We should use what we have. Out here we get potates, parsnips, spring onions, leeks (loads of em!), cabbages, lettuces, broccoli, carrots, spinach (yuck!), baby potatoes, celery, onions, tomatoes, eggs (local chickens:D)....the list is long.All grown in the field next door to be exported to Egypt...or wherever. What's the point in that???

    Normally I'm in agreement with you, ei. sdraob:D, but not on this one!!


  • #11
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Supply and demand my friend

    dumping a lot of (perishable) food on markets will lower prices, the EU market is over-saturated with food, hell they are paying farmers to not to grow things

    so that leaves developing countries but that means {much longer supply lines, dealing with all sorts of trade barriers etc} oh and being able to grow food with less costs than competitors good luck there with our high fuel rates and beuracracy when it comes to any business, especially farming

    maybe if we can somehow tap into the growing Chinese and Indian markets and somehow manage to deliver them fresh quality food cheaply, somehow...


    anyway why do you keep saying "our"?

    You havent got a clue what your talking about, i work in this trade, i buy from local farmers & sell on to local people at a better price than the BIG multi national supermarkets, i pay my tax & prsi, health insureance & keep a van on the road, i save people on avarge 70% compared to the big boys & the food is as fresh as can be, not sitting on shelves for days before you buy it, I pick & pack to order, you probably work in an office & are good at one thing, its people like you who really piss me off


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  • #12
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I don't know about the 1930s this is 2010, lots of thing have changed since then, i couldn't drive a car when i was 10, but i can nowbiggrin.gif


  • #13
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    dan_d wrote: »
    Why do we have to sell it abroad?

    Why can't we sell a proportion of it locally here...cheaper than the imported food coz it hasn't travelled miles....driving costs down....which is what we're all about these days.

    Stop raining on parades, people, and back up ideas. I'm living in the market garden centre of this country (north Dublin). Veg is sold on the side of the roads and in the back gardens. Don't spend a penny in Tescos etc, get the stuff for a good price and really fresh. Having travelled extensively...we have some of the best quality food in the world in this country. We should use what we have. Out here we get potates, parsnips, spring onions, leeks (loads of em!), cabbages, lettuces, broccoli, carrots, spinach (yuck!), baby potatoes, celery, onions, tomatoes, eggs (local chickens:D)....the list is long.All grown in the field next door to be exported to Egypt...or wherever. What's the point in that???

    Normally I'm in agreement with you, ei. sdraob:D, but not on this one!!

    I totaly agree wit you Dan, Local food for local people.


  • #14
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dan_d wrote: »
    Normally I'm in agreement with you, ei. sdraob:D, but not on this one!!

    the OP suggested that "we can grow our way" out of this mess, we cant the debt hole is too deep, as i pointed out exports will be only one variable in the end solution to this mess.

    As for substituting food, we are part of the EU we cant just ban imports or provide unfair advantage to local producers, if they want to compete they will have to do that on an even playing field, and some (to their credit) do that very well. The alternative is turning inward and dropping from EU, as @df pointed out that was tried before in this country...

    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    You havent got a clue what your talking about, i work in this trade, i buy from local farmers & sell on to local people at a better price than the BIG multi national supermarkets, i pay my tax & prsi, health insureance & keep a van on the road, i save people on avarge 70% compared to the big boys & the food is as fresh as can be, not sitting on shelves for days before you buy it, I pick & pack to order, you probably work in an office & are good at one thing, its people like you who really piss me off

    I am not sure why you are attacking me :confused: I pointed out that no we can not "grow" our way out of this mess, the numbers are simply too large.
    And if it makes you feel any better i run a business and employ people too, as well as having to pay all sorts of taxes like yourself, but unlike yourself i have to compete with companies from all around the world to make a profit and not be protected by EU who is providing large subsidies to our farmers and preventing farmers in other countries from competing with our lot.

    Exports will be aspect of Ireland's recovery but not the sole saviour, not running up so much debt in the first place would be a good place to start addressing our issues.


  • #15
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    I totaly agree wit you Dan, Local food for local people.

    Selling stuff made locally to each other doesnt make us all richer.
    we tried that with houses look where that ended up...

    Exports on the other hand do,

    if farmers come together into co-ops/companies and somehow manage to get into Asian markets and deliver fresh/cheap/quality food, you will make alot of $€¥ and increase the wealth back home, wealth that can be taxed to pay for this mess.


  • #16
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #17
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    I don't make a profit, i earn enough to pay my way in life, that's what has us in this mess, PROFITEERING, i understand people want to grow there company's, look at this for an example, in Holland a 6kg box of loose tomatoes will cost an imported 2 euro, by the time they get to Dublin there 6 euro, by the time the reach a whole seller there 9 euro & by the time you by them there 2.80 per kilo that's 16.80 euro for a box to tomatoes??? how is that fare?:confused:


  • #18
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    I don't make a profit, i earn enough to pay my way in life, that's what has us in this mess, PROFITEERING, i understand people want to grow there company's, look at this for an example, in Holland a 6kg box of loose tomatoes will cost an imported 2 euro, by the time they get to Dublin there 6 euro, by the time the reach a whole seller there 9 euro & by the time you by them there 2.80 per kilo that's 16.80 euro for a box to tomatoes??? how is that fare?:confused:

    Can I point you to your opening post and your thread title says "grow our way out of this recession"

    without profit there is nothing to tax in order to repay the debt we clocked up.

    Unless you envisage an island where we are all herded into collectives to work like happy proles for the good of motherland on a 5year plan cycle, where has that been tried before...


  • #19
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #20
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Selling stuff made locally to each other doesnt make us all richer.
    we tried that with houses look where that ended up...

    What has houses to do with it, my father in laws house cost him 2000 euro in 1970s, he earned 100 per week working for bordnamona, that's 200 times what he earned a week, people who sold houses a few years back on average 200000 euro for a house, the average weekly pay maybe 500 if you had a good job that's, 400 times what you earned a week, people who sold houses riped people off, a place to live is not a thing to make huge profits off, we knew this one time & thank god we are starting to know it again


  • #21
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #22
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Stop concentrating on the past & look to the future, I'm on about selling locally grown food to local people, noting more, noting less. Its the simplest thing in the world.


  • #23
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Ok @GrowersDirect


    wealth comes from selling stuff/services that other party/ies need
    you with me?

    selling potatoes/massages/houses to each other within the economy only pushes money around (not necessarily a bad thing as long as its not overdone as happened here with houses) the problem with Ireland is that money is LEAVING the country and going to people who loaned us money, the more money leaves the less there is for us left to sell potatoes to each other
    you with me still?

    selling butter (kerrygold) /microchips (intel) /advertising (google) to entities OUTSIDE our little island economy is a VERY GOOD THING since it brings in money from other economies


    Ireland actually still exports alot of stuff, but growing exports will only be one part of the solution
    pouring water into a pot with larger holes at bottom doesn't work if you wish to boil potatoes in this pot :)


  • #24
    domrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭domrush


    But if we grew all our own food wouldn't that drive imports down? If our imports are less aren't we saving money?


  • #25
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    domrush wrote: »
    But if we grew all our own food wouldn't that drive imports down? If our imports are less aren't we saving money?

    Yes if the locally produces food is cheaper/better than imported food(and a lot of it is for most part and hence people buy it).

    We are part of an economic union and free trade area potatoes from Ireland compete on the same level playing field as potatoes from Netherlands or Romania.
    So unless your potatoes are better and cheaper than the competition then you loose. Placing artificial barriers only ensures everyone looses in the longterm.

    Today is economics 101 day :P


  • #26
    GrowersDirect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭GrowersDirect


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Ok @GrowersDirect


    wealth comes from selling stuff/services that other party/ies need
    you with me?

    selling potatoes/massages/houses to each other within the economy only pushes money around (not necessarily a bad thing as long as its not overdone as happened here with houses) the problem with Ireland is that money is LEAVING the country and going to people who loaned us money, the more money leaves the less there is for us left to sell potatoes to each other
    you with me still?

    selling butter (kerrygold) /microchips (intel) /advertising (google) to entities OUTSIDE our little island economy is a VERY GOOD THING since it brings in money from other economies


    Ireland actually still exports alot of stuff, but growing exports will only be one part of the solution
    pouring water into a pot with larger holes at bottom doesn't work if you wish to boil potatoes in this pot :)

    Im just talking about Food, lets grow more, create more jobs in doing so, import less of the food we can grow here, it takes 100 people to keep me in a job every week, noting to to with exporting, i work within a 15mile radious of were i live & theres 1000s. For example in westmeath theres 80000 people, thats 8000 jobs for people who want to deliver to them, plus probably 2000 jobe for growers, now how may people work in supermarkets in westmeath? i dont know but supermarkets are all about big profit, even growers selling to big chains have to bend to their rules or they simply wont buy, a local farmer i know couldnt sell any of his produce because local supermarkets had contracts with spain, holland & other contries, hows that goodconfused.gif


  • #27
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    Im just talking about Food, lets grow more, create more jobs in doing so, import less of the food we can grow here, it takes 100 people to keep me in a job every week, noting to to with exporting, i work within a 15mile radious of were i live & theres 1000s. For example in westmeath theres 80000 people, thats 8000 jobs for people who want to deliver to them, plus probably 2000 jobe for growers, now how may people work in supermarkets in westmeath? i dont know but supermarkets are all about big profit, even growers selling to big chains have to bend to their rules or they simply wont buy, a local farmer i know couldnt sell any of his produce because local supermarkets had contracts with spain, holland & other contries, hows that goodconfused.gif

    So the local farmer could not compete with other farmers in EU?

    So we need to subsidise him indirectly and place a trade barrier so he is better off while everyone else including the consumers are worse off

    anyone who refuses to buy locally and goes north will be stopped by a wall

    yeh that'll work :D ...


  • #28
    Corsendonk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    Interesting thread, I agree with the last thread about growing product to export to bring currency into the economy. Considering the OP confessed that he worked in Corporation market the place that has done its best to import product for years to deflate the Irish market prices it was a bit rich to preach what we should be doing.

    From his extensive knowledge of the market garden industry in Ireland he will know the majority of growers are based in Cork, Wexford and North Dublin mainly due to the fact that they have decent land for large scale production of vegetable crops plus the expertise. Soil in Ireland is poor in comparsion to areas like Lincolnshire in the UK.

    Potatoes can be grow in poorer soils but the costs of production arn't cheap if you wish to grow a product acceptable to the multiples or export market. New potato harvester is around 250k region. Then he have to buy or contract fertiliser, rotivating, planting, spraying. If you look at the figures, there are less potatoes, less land under production but higher yields so your entrying into a competitive and expert market. I have seen what some of the regional potato growers sell and some of it is no better than cattle feed to be honest. Gone are the days were you over winter potatoes in the ground, your expected to lift and store in fridges yourself to maintain quality.

    Lastly the Irish climate prevents a wide range of crops to be grown year round so we need imports at the start and end of seasons when local supply can't meet 100% of demand. Also cheap lines such as cherry tomatoes are imported because the Irish scale model can not compete with the low value high volume lines due to energy and labour costs here.


  • #29
    Corsendonk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    GrowersDirect wrote: »
    i dont know but supermarkets are all about big profit, even growers selling to big chains have to bend to their rules or they simply wont buy, a local farmer i know couldnt sell any of his produce because local supermarkets had contracts with spain, holland & other contries, hows that goodconfused.gif

    Are you sure you worked in the market? Considering the two big boys there are major suppliers to the multiples, and yes they do import produce from there subsiders abroad, I might add that both are Irish owned companies. I am shocked by your naviety in the local farmer statement, as your knowledge from the market should have led you to take the farmers statement with a pince of salt.


  • #30
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Oh and if the locals dont want to get their hands dirty for a min wage pay which is not too far from what you get on dole by doing nothing.

    sure we can import Brazilian workers then :P to do the work

    ... anyways i am off to dig some muck and plant few fruit trees on my land :), maybe in a few years i should lobby to prevent those evil UK growers from importing apples that are are superior to ei.sdraob's batch :D


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  • #31
    tenchi-fan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭tenchi-fan


    We need to get to the stage where people's efforts are rewarded.

    Everyone eats food. Why are potatoes being imported while our farmers are told not to grow them! Paying farmers not to grow food is absolutely crazy.


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