'Back to the Mac' Event October 20th

conor.hogan.2 · 20-10-2010 07:37PM

if the 999 dollars is around 1100 euro then its not a bad price considering the specs and size etc.

I would never sue it much like an ipad I have no use for it but if you have a use for it it is a decent price (apple wise anyway)

Hogzy · 20-10-2010 07:38PM

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I disagree - I said back in Janurary or whenever on this board that they are going more iOS like and they are going that way they might not go all the way but we will see.

When you say iOS 'like' - What exactly do you mean?

Because not in a million years would apple restrict OSX the same way as iOS or even. Mac struggles enough with software developers for professionals (Bar media), We have only just seen AutoCAD come to Mac so to me it looks as if they are making a move towards getting apple computers into business in a similar way microsoft is.
The iPhone is becoming the number one business/smart phone and will more than likely overtake RIM someday so if apple can have a system for their Corporate customers to have their system integrated between their computers at work, their phones and their other mobile devices then companies may go that direction and adopt Apple Computers. Mind you for this to happen the prices of the computers will have to come WAYYYYYY down.

OctavarIan · 20-10-2010 07:38PM

Did they seriously just show off full screen apps? I mean I watched the entire thing but I'm still confused. What year am I in?

Also, 13" Macbook Air 1440x900, 11.6" Macbook Air 1368x768, 13" Macbook Pro 1280x800.

13" Macbook Pro is for suckers right now. Thing needs a resolution boost and an i3 at least. When compared to the ordinary Macbook and now the new Macbook Air it's really limp.

Hogzy · 20-10-2010 07:40PM

Did they announce any portable DVD-ROM?

Sad Professor · 20-10-2010 07:52PM

Irish Apple Store is back up. Euro prices mostly the same, except for the upper spec 11-inch Air which is €1,149.

aidan_walsh · 20-10-2010 07:53PM

Hmm. Lots of iOS influence. Didn't look as bad as I thought it might.

Few things that struck me. I wonder is iLife going to be available as separate apps in the App Store much as iWork is?

Are system upgrades going to be distributed through the App Store? Is Lion?
Wouldn't that be cool? One click purchase, backup to Time Capsule and upgrade to 10.7.

fjon · 20-10-2010 08:03PM

Couldn't find a date for Facetime being released - did they mention that? Know a few folks with iPhone 4s and think I would use it a bit.

Sad Professor · 20-10-2010 08:03PM

I had dismissed the idea of a Mac App Store in the past, but one (admittedly obvious) benefit which I hadn't considered is just the sheer convenience of being able to download an application from a central location rather than have to go buy a disc or navigate through the developer's (crappy) website. For this reason alone, I think it will be a big success.

I agree, aidan, about the iOS influence. Much better than I thought. But I still think a lot of it is pointless. Launchpad especially - I mean how is this better than the Dock? However, the merging of Exposé, Spaces and Dashboard into Mission Control was probably needed. And at least Jobs seemed to shoot down the idea of a touch-screen Mac.

Beta of Facetime is supposed to be out today.

Elessar · 20-10-2010 08:04PM

Lovely machines, but if I wanted an ultraportable I certainly wouldn't pay €1000 for it! Certainly not for those specs.

My MBP never leaves my house anyway.

I was hoping to see MBP updates though

reverenddave · 20-10-2010 08:09PM

apple sadly overpricing themselves again those netbooks will never sell in big numbers

other then my MBP my acer aspire is the exact same size as the 11" macbok air with twice the hd space and the same ram and its running leopard and cost me €300

sorry to say but stupid pricing like that shít will be the death of apple eventually

Bonavox · 20-10-2010 08:11PM

Not happy about the prices of the new Airs, but I wasn't expecting to, either. They were backed into a corner where they would just eat into iPad sales if they went any lower so that's understandable. Still not too happy with the specs, though.

creativedrinker · 20-10-2010 08:11PM

A life related question, I'm looking at buying the new version but I've two macs in the house, both on the same apple sign in details... Does this mean i can buy the single to use on both or will I have to splash out the extra dish for the family version??

New Mac air is tiny!! I'm always amazed how small they can get products these days!

finno · 20-10-2010 08:12PM

fjon wrote: »

Couldn't find a date for Facetime being released - did they mention that? Know a few folks with iPhone 4s and think I would use it a bit.

You can download the Beta now on www.apple.com/mac/facetime.

KeithM89_old · 20-10-2010 08:40PM

I was planning on getting a 13inch pro for college but il think il get the 13" Air - even though its slightly more expensive.

Cant wait to try the new iMovie - it looks amazing

thecommander · 20-10-2010 08:46PM

reverenddave wrote: »

sorry to say but stupid pricing like that shít will be the death of apple eventually

Seems to be working out ok for them so far.

J2D2 · 20-10-2010 09:29PM

When I saw the original Macbook Air, it seemed more like an exercise in who could make the slimmest laptop. It wasn't all that powerful or useful. Now though it seems they've finally jammed in some decent specs... but without the disk drive it still has that awful stink of netbook. A world filled only by downloads is not going to happen for a while yet.

The worst thing about it is:

Both are available today starting at $1000. That'll get you the smaller Air with a 1.4GHz Core2Duo and 64GB of storage, while for $1200 you can upgrade to 128GB with the same processor. The 13.3-inch MBA starts off at a 1.86GHz processor and 128GB of storage for $1300, and opting for 256GB bumps the price to $1600. The base models start at 2GB of RAM but are upgradeable to 4GB and it looks as though they provide you with a USB stick with the OS.

Gizmodo

It seems extortionate to expect this amount of money for what little storage your getting, it almost makes it defunct in lieu of the Macbook pro.

I didn't understand the Air when it was released originally and I still don't now

reverenddave · 20-10-2010 09:38PM

thecommander wrote: »

Seems to be working out ok for them so far.

the first macbook air didnt do good at all

from what i remember they sold less then half the number of units then they were hoping for

Sad Professor · 20-10-2010 10:03PM

The problem with the previous Air was the price relative to the Plasticbook and 13-inch Macbook Pro. This is still a problem to a lesser degree with the new 13-inch, but the 11-inch is the same price as the Plasticbook and I think will prove quite popular.

There's a definitely a market for this type of notebook. Any of Apple's other Macbooks are good enough to replace a desktop. The days in which laptops were only suitable as secondary machines are over. And yet many people still do need something small and compact for carrying around - it doesn't need to be particularly powerful or have an optical drive or a lot of storage space. Mobile devices like the iPad and iPhone have largely filled this gap, but their limitations, especially in terms of typing and productivity, have been well documented.

Personally, I really need the portability. I use my 13-inch MBP at the moment (which I also use with an external display as a desktop), but as compact as it is, I still find it a hassle to drag around, and the iPad ain't up the task of replacing it. The 11-inch Air, however, would be perfect: it's thinner, smaller and half the weight. I'm very tempted to break into my savings to get one.

silvine · 20-10-2010 10:05PM

Watched the video about the Mac Air on the Apple website. In between all the hyperbole, the designers talk about how having a multi-touch screen in a laptop is just not practical! I guess the same thinking applies to the iMac.

I like the look of the new Air and the idea of a flash drive and I could definitely get by without a disc drive (maybe because I've an iMac). The specs and battery life on the 11inch model are pretty weedy. A five hour battery life in real life normally means 3.

Lion looks impressive particularly mission control (expose and spaces is my fav thing about Leopard). Hopefully they bring tabs to the Finder window too.

conor.hogan.2 · 20-10-2010 10:20PM

SL has feckin fullscreen already - and if I want to get to the dektop I use exposé.

I know they are touting it as different and great - but its not. Like some developers have already made it availible in their apps, nothing new.

If you have an app folder in your dock you can get that feature already in SL - it is not new if you tout it as ''just like an iphone" I can already make folders pff. making it full screen and using some iOS style layout wow but its pretty much the same.

is mission control replacing spaces??? (a laptop is not big enuf to show all items like that - that is why people use spaces with expose and go into dashboard when needed)

Seriously wtf?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_R8nxMxEpM - facetime from iphone to laptop with steve jobs after event.

thecommander · 20-10-2010 10:53PM

reverenddave wrote: »

the first macbook air didnt do good at all

from what i remember they sold less then half the number of units then they were hoping for

So one at nearly half the price & better specs will be the death knell for apple?

Spipov · 20-10-2010 11:21PM

i know its available online and all, but im wondering when pcworld and compub are going to have it. dont fancy a trek to belfast this weekend

and even though it says ship 1-2 business days on apple site, im not sure where its coming from hence how long it will take to get here.

im getting a 13" 1.83. going to sell my mbp 13. will be cycling everyday, the lighter and thinner the better.

peejay1986 · 21-10-2010 12:19AM

I'm genuinly curious - was the reason to use Core2Duos as opposed to i(3/5/7)s in the new Air purely to make it more affordable to consumers? Core2Duo range are well on their way out in terms of technology and when launching the latest MBPs, Apple made a big deal about what an improvement these chips were in terms of both performance and power saving. Surely they could've opted for the i3 processor to bring the CPU a little more up to date.

Pretty confused about that one so any information that I'm unsure of would be great to hear.

Wibbs · 21-10-2010 01:15AM

The main problem I have with the Air? Forget the lack of inputs and expandability and the fact you need another mac to make them go for anything approaching usefulness ATM(that may well change with the mainstream mac app store). It's their longevity and robustness. They're incredibly delicate in real world use. A smaller one may be more robust, but still I'll await developments on that score.

condra · 21-10-2010 02:07AM

If they ever come close to locking down applications for OSX, they will lose a ton of customers, including me.

Sad Professor · 21-10-2010 07:28AM

peejay1986 wrote: »

I'm genuinly curious - was the reason to use Core2Duos as opposed to i(3/5/7)s in the new Air purely to make it more affordable to consumers? Core2Duo range are well on their way out in terms of technology and when launching the latest MBPs, Apple made a big deal about what an improvement these chips were in terms of both performance and power saving. Surely they could've opted for the i3 processor to bring the CPU a little more up to date.

Pretty confused about that one so any information that I'm unsure of would be great to hear.

I assume for the same reason they weren't able to put them in the 13 inch MBP - there isn't enough space. Intel and Nvidia are have a bit of a spat and Apple feel having a discrete graphics card is more important. The alternative would be an i3 with integrated Intel graphics.

Fysh · 21-10-2010 09:16AM

Glad to see that Apple saw some common sense with the new Airs and gave them a second USB port, but having had nothing but misery trying to support those poxy USB ethernet adapters at work (they don't play nice with USB hubs, including the ones built into CinemaDisplays, and they seem to have some sort of Linkflap Inducement subroutine when connected to our switches) it's annoying to see that they've still not bothered to provide on-board ethernet.

The minimalist approach to connectivity and interfaces on the Air is still pathetic IMO, though the joy of having an even moderately-decent 11.6" laptop available from one of my workplace's approved suppliers will probably make me overlook this for the time being...

Wibbs · 21-10-2010 10:22AM

condra wrote: »

If they ever come close to locking down applications for OSX, they will lose a ton of customers, including me.

That's their plan I reckon and they'll gain more customers than they lose. In the short term anyway. They're moving away from "computers." Oh they'll still produce them, but as portals for iTunes for the core of their business.

IMHO from early on oul Stevie was looking at the iPod model. The machinery was almost secondary to the delivery of content. Keep the machine simple, but make it look nice and make it easy to connect to their stuff, but not easy at all to not. Again IMHO the original air was an experiment to see if people would pony up enough wedge for a mac that was objectively speaking feature free. No expandability, connectivity was useless and delicate isn't in it(they also had a fair whack of failures of the flash drive version). They saw the iphone going ballistic and again the ipod model/ the app store was fueling it. It was costing them feck all to maintain it and the profits were and are massive. I reckon the air was also a toe in the water to set the price point for their tablet.

Now it's great as a biz model and Steve yet again has changed tack and invented another revenue stream and one they can control. If mac goes appstore? no more cd/dvds to watch movies or install software. Kills most piracy in both software and content and producers will beat a path to their door. The guy is a bona fide genius in a way Bill Gates never was on that score. So how may it pan out? I've often heard people wonder why the iphone unit updates were so incremental, especially when the android lot jumped into a similar model and had the latest and the greatest features in their phones. Reason? They have to preserve the itunes biz model. They can't afford to make huge leaps with the phone tech, simply because it mightn't be backward compatible with their app store content. That's where android may have issues.

My concern is that for the core of their business in actual PC's this incremental trajectory will also hold sway. Oh they'll get a little faster and a little more "designed" but actual innovation may well be in thrall to iTunes. Steve is well known for liking one button tech and minimilism. He got rid of floppies in 99, brought in usb, single button mice. Now with air/ipad/iphone, bye bye cd/dvd, wired networking, expandability. He doesnt like too many options and he's right, most end users dont care. That's why ipod "won". Far better players were out at the time, but outside of audio/techie nerds the vast majority out there just want play, stop FF, RW, shuffle and volume. In a way they may have painted themselves into a corner. They'll still keep producing the mac pro type towers for the pro's, but the core will be "iPhone" macs.

My 3 cents anyway.

Sad Professor · 21-10-2010 11:17AM

Well, according to Apple their profits from iTunes and the App Store are very small. They say their target with content delivery is just to break even and bit, and the figures they've released would seem to support this. Their core revenue comes from the same thing it always did: hardware sales. They use iTunes/App Store content to help sell their iDevices. This might change in the future, but I don't see any of evidence of it happening yet.

The original Air was an experiment alright, but an experiment in making a very small and light notebook, minus all the (increasingly redundant) stuff that weighs it down. Laptops have gotten very big over the years with 15-inches becoming the minimum size for many people, while in the meantime many Mac users have been begging Apple to release a successor to the 12-inch Powerbook. Those people got their wish yesterday.

The idea that Apple are planning to lock down the Mac to applications is ridiculous. If Apple are smart enough to realise that you can't just slap a desktop OS on a tablet, and if they are smart enough to realise that touchscreen isn't suitable for a desktop/notebook, why would they be so stupid as to kill their computer business by inexplicably bringing the iPhone/iPad's approach to applications to the Mac? I've yet to see a single valid argument for why they would want to do this.

The real danger to the Mac isn't iOS's closed ecosystem philosophy, it's that Apple just aren't particularly arsed about the Mac anymore, as I think Lion's delayed and rather underwhelming presentation proved. But this is going to be an issue across the computer industry. Mobile devices are the future and it's where all the potential innovation is right now.

Fysh · 21-10-2010 12:21PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Now it's great as a biz model and Steve yet again has changed tack and invented another revenue stream and one they can control. If mac goes appstore? no more cd/dvds to watch movies or install software. Kills most piracy in both software and content and producers will beat a path to their door.

Depends on whether the consortium behind the likes of Blu-Ray like the idea or not. Given how much Sony have put into getting people aboard the Blu-Ray experience (not to mention all the factions trying to push 3D-at-home setups) I'm not sure this would work.

Besides which, Apple wouldn't be the first to offer network based films/tv shows/software. Hulu, netflix, steam have all been there before. The moderate-at-best performance of the Apple TV shows that Apple aren't doing well enough in that area to start calling shots like that. And personally I can only say Christ save us from an iTunes based future.

The guy is a bona fide genius in a way Bill Gates never was on that score. So

Wibbs wrote: »

My concern is that for the core of their business in actual PC's this incremental trajectory will also hold sway. Oh they'll get a little faster and a little more "designed" but actual innovation may well be in thrall to iTunes. Steve is well known for liking one button tech and minimilism. He got rid of floppies in 99, brought in usb, single button mice. Now with air/ipad/iphone, bye bye cd/dvd, wired networking, expandability. He doesnt like too many options and he's right, most end users dont care.

When wireless routers are good enough to never fall over, and wireless connectivity doesn't occasionally spazz out for no reason, and the Apple USB Ethernet adapter doesn't come with built-in cruftware to check whether you're using an MBA or not and plays nice with USB hubs, and batteries last long enough that having a built-in battery doesn't simply guarantee that you pay Apple a bunch of money to have it replaced in two years time, I'll believe that this is a good idea. Until then, it's stupid.

There's also Apple's ongoing failure to provide business-class support for those products that they claim are for business use (but on which they won't offer the VAT exemption that business users normally get - yes, I'm looking at you, Office Productivity section of the App Store). When Apple finally offer on-site hardware support for laptops as well as desktops (like most other laptop vendors targeting business audiences will offer), I'll take them that bit more seriously.

On the other hand, enough people actually believe Apple's marketing, so I can't help but think that as a whole we get the computing environment we've got coming...

'Back to the Mac' Event October 20th

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