At least the French people are demonstrating

acotone · 19-10-2010 10:42AM #1

Hi,

I've been following the discussion about the Irish economy here with interest but I notice only a lot of moaning about the situation and nobody comin up with action proposals. I think it's time that the Irish people take to the streets !! why isn't any of the Unions organizing something , why not confront this government and demand dissolution of the Croke Park Agreement...take the French as an example, at least they don't only moan like the Irish

hobochris · 19-10-2010 10:46AM

acotone wrote: »

Hi,

I've been following the discussion about the Irish economy here with interest but I notice only a lot of moaning about the situation and nobody comin up with action proposals. I think it's time that the Irish people take to the streets !! why isn't any of the Unions organizing something , why not confront this government and demand dissolution of the Croke Park Agreement...take the French as an example, at least they don't only moan like the Irish

Are you organising something then?

Permabear · 19-10-2010 10:47AM

This post has been deleted.

mikemac · 19-10-2010 10:48AM

Students set cars and tires on fire, toppled a telephone booth, and hurled debris at police in the Paris suburb of Nanterre, as well as in Lyon and elsewhere. At least five police officers were injured.

Airlines flying into France were ordered to slash schedules — and to bring enough fuel for the trip out. Gas stations ran short or dry, while truckers jammed highway traffic by driving at a snail’s pace

Today was also expected to bring more severe disruptions to air travel, trains, schools, and beyond.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2010/10/19/french_protests_stoke_fuel_crisis/
First link in Google

Realy OP, this is going on this week. You say the French don't moan like the Irish but is this the kind of thing you want to see in Ireland?

Anyway I'm seeing countless threads demanding march but the OP always expects someone else to organize it.
Have you got a plan? If you are in a union have you brought this up with your rep?

newmug · 19-10-2010 10:55AM

acotone wrote: »

Hi,

I've been following the discussion about the Irish economy here with interest but I notice only a lot of moaning about the situation and nobody comin up with action proposals. I think it's time that the Irish people take to the streets !! why isn't any of the Unions organizing something , why not confront this government and demand dissolution of the Croke Park Agreement...take the French as an example, at least they don't only moan like the Irish

1) They've a population of 65 million. Thats 16 times bigger than ours. So, proportionately, when you hear of 1600 Frenchies protesting, its like 100 Paddies protesting. The drop-in-the-ocean factor.

2) The unions are too busy trying to hide their ill-gotten money, they couldnt care less about the ordinary working people. They're trying to avoid the heat. Unions are evil.

3) The french are lazy. They didnt want to stand up to germany in WW2, and the much smaller country of britian had to step in, and now they dont want to work past 60. Typical.

4) YOU'RE moaning:mad:

sarumite · 19-10-2010 11:13AM

newmug wrote: »

1) They've a population of 65 million. Thats 16 times bigger than ours. So, proportionately, when you hear of 1600 Frenchies protesting, its like 100 Paddies protesting. The drop-in-the-ocean factor.

true

2) The unions are too busy trying to hide their ill-gotten money, they couldnt care less about the ordinary working people. They're trying to avoid the heat. Unions are evil.

50-50 in my books

3) The french are lazy. They didnt want to stand up to germany in WW2, and the much smaller country of britian had to step in, and now they dont want to work past 60. Typical.

Utter nonsense....the UK had a population similar to France, and at that time also had more overseas territories than France. Furthermore, other factors such as France sharing a physical border with Germany have to be considered

4) YOU'RE moaning:mad:

It did seem like nothing but a moan.

southsiderosie · 19-10-2010 11:14AM

I honestly don't understand why the Irish aren't protesting in order to force an election (and an honest national conversation about the budget), but I think the French protests are absurd. Shifting the retirement age from 60 to 62 is hardly radical, or condemning French workers to a life of toil and misery. :rolleyes:

What is really amazing to me is that students are joining in the protests: youth unemployment is double the 35+ rate, largely because labor markets are so regulated. Who do they think are most hurt by France's mollycoddled older workforce?

ei.sdraob · 19-10-2010 11:17AM

What would burning private property or damaging state property accomplish?

We need change but it has to be democratic change, thru' the ballot box, having those by-elections would be a start.

Actually first thing that needs to happen is for the people of this country appreciate the scale of the issues facing us, alot of people are still in denial and have difficulty connecting the dots.

acotone · 19-10-2010 11:21AM

Actually I'm Dutch and do have a political activist history , there will be no change in the Irish political establishment if the Irish people themselves won't act against it ....in Holland the people responsible for the banking crisis have been convicted....I guess every people get the government they deserve, I'm not proud of Mr.Wilders though but at least he's acting against what he sees as a threat , the irish people seem to be like rabbits paralyzed by the blindinding light of the banking crisis !!

mikemac · 19-10-2010 11:24AM

Well a Dutch man shot Pim Fortuyn.
We don't need to go that far

KerranJast · 19-10-2010 11:27AM

There's no point in demonstrating against the Government because they aren't in charge. The EU Commission and the IMF are pulling the strings now. Any large scale disruption is just going to hurt the country even more.

Gus99 · 19-10-2010 11:30AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

What is really amazing to me is that students are joining in the protests: youth unemployment is double the 35+ rate, largely because labor markets are so regulated. Who do they think are most hurt by France's mollycoddled older workforce?

I believe their motives are slightly different - by (correctly) raising the retirement age, you are also blocking potential job vacancies for the students

acotone · 19-10-2010 11:31AM

What I mean to say with "at least the French demonstrate" is that they act against what they see as wrong ....at least they are doing something instead of moaning

Shooting Pim Fortuyn was a stupid act done by an idiot.

acotone · 19-10-2010 11:37AM

"There's no point in demonstrating against the Government because they aren't in charge. The EU Commission and the IMF are pulling the strings now"

Not true , a serious demonstration could influence them to apply the cuts more fairly , that is: also cutting the public sector which is needed to provide money for incentives to stimulate the job market, which all governments seem to overlook with their austerity measures

"Any large scale disruption is just going to hurt the country even more."

Can it get any worse ?

KerranJast · 19-10-2010 11:40AM

acotone wrote: »

Can it get any worse ?

Oh hells yes. The bond interest rate can go up further if there's mass disruption and strikes making it impossible for the Government to borrow.

newmug · 19-10-2010 11:49AM

We've been through worse already. The famine lasted 5 years, so did WW2, both terrible things. We'll get through this aswell.

acotone · 19-10-2010 11:54AM

"We've been through worse already. The famine lasted 5 years, so did WW2, both terrible things. We'll get through this aswell."

I give up....

southsiderosie · 19-10-2010 12:07PM

Gus99 wrote: »

I believe their motives are slightly different - by (correctly) raising the retirement age, you are also blocking potential job vacancies for the students

French students have protested against every proposed change in labor and retirement law for the last five years. They don't seem to understand that if a company has to hire you for life, they are not going to hire you unless they are damn sure that you can do a good job. And no employer can make that call for a 22 year old fresh out of university. That said, it's not clear to me that they really want to work anyway.

RichardAnd · 19-10-2010 12:09PM

newmug wrote: »

3) The french are lazy. They didnt want to stand up to germany in WW2, and the much smaller country of britian had to step in, and now they dont want to work past 60. Typical.

If you said that to a french man who was alive during the war, he'd probably break his walking stick over your head. The Germans made short work of France because the French were expecting a WW1 trench war of attrition but the Germans hit them with a fast attack they weren't ready for. However, even when the country was occupied, thousands of ordinary french men and women fought a clandestine war against the Germans in the form of the French resistance. By making that incredibly asinine comment, you are gravely insulting some very brave people.

Anyway, as to the OP, if I had a euro for every time someone on these board said "why don't we all go out and protest!", I could buy myself a plasma screen TV with an XBOX 360 to boot. What would protesting achieve? We all go out and walk around for a day telling the government how much we hate spending cuts and then we go home. The end result is that nothing has changed because we'd still have NAMA, we'd still be stuck with the deficit and we'd still be the same little mad house on the edge of europe.

When I see signs advertising protests, they generally claim things like "let the bankers pay!", or "we didn't cause it, why do we pay?" etc etc. The problem with these is that it's not that simple. I liken our current situation to the aftermath of a house burning down. Regardless of what started the fire, if we want to live in that house again, we're just going to have to fix it.

Ireland is a beautiful country with a wonderful heritage and culture. Sadly, it's populated by a race of people who are, by and large, ignorant, morally corrupt, selfish and lazy. We could pull down the entire political establishment if we liked, hold another general election or what have you but until we change as a people, we will always have a corrupt system of governance.

enda1 · 19-10-2010 12:13PM

The French are protesting against changes which they know will come into place anyway. They are just saving face and being consistent.

Its really a pathetic situation and an embarrassment to their nation.

What, OP, would your protest be in aid of/against?
Or is it as I guess that you just want to go out on the streets and act like a thug shouting some rebel songs and burning cars?

acotone · 19-10-2010 12:17PM

By massive demonstrations you could achieve a few minor changes, these demonstrations wouldn't have to be majorly disruptive. By doing nothing at all nothing will ever change !

Jumpy · 19-10-2010 12:21PM

acotone wrote: »

"We've been through worse already. The famine lasted 5 years, so did WW2, both terrible things. We'll get through this aswell."

I give up....

The famine killed close to a million people. At the current population that is a 25% chance of death for you.

Pretty high odds no?

acotone · 19-10-2010 12:24PM

I was quoting the previous post....

enda1 · 19-10-2010 12:24PM

acotone wrote: »

By massive demonstrations you could achieve a few minor changes, these demonstrations wouldn't have to be majorly disruptive. By doing nothing at all nothing will ever change !

What do you want changed?

By doing nothing at all, there will still be a very sever budget which will change many things.

Again what do you want changed? And what percentage of the population agree with you?

Do you really feel that your minority of supporters should sway the diplomatic process that has led to the populace of Ireland expressing their will to have this government in place to make decisions for them?

20Cent · 19-10-2010 12:28PM

Brian Lenihan said that he was not aware of anger directed towards him when Vincent Browne interviewed him. Sarkozy sure as hell does. We have been trampled on and lied to repeatedly because we keep taking whatever is given to us. A few big demonstrations and maybe we wouldn't be paying for Abramovichs new boat.
Fair play to the French.

acotone · 19-10-2010 12:36PM

What I stated earlier I will repeat: cutting in Public Sector spending, making these funds available for incentives to stimulate the job market

enda1 · 19-10-2010 12:37PM

acotone wrote: »

What I stated earlier I will repeat: cutting in Public Sector spending, making these funds available for incentives to stimulate the job market

They are cutting public sector spending.
HSE alone will be cut from between 600 and 1000 million.

Next?

acotone · 19-10-2010 12:44PM

would not advise to cut that much in HSE, would cut in the salaries of the whole PS and privatize for example the ESB... I worked there myself for a short time as a contracter and was disgusted by the waste and smugness

ei.sdraob · 19-10-2010 12:48PM

If you want to bring change via protest, get few thousand people not to pay taxes

"no taxation without representation" could be claimed by the people in the areas being denied a by-election

this should bring down current govt and bring on full elections

now where is my gold star

enda1 · 19-10-2010 12:54PM

acotone wrote: »

would not advise to cut that much in HSE, would cut in the salaries of the whole PS and privatize for example the ESB... I worked there myself for a short time as a contracter and was disgusted by the waste and smugness

The ESB make a profit. So by privatising them, we will get a cash injection but at a price.

That said I could agree with you, but its not a cut in reality. Its an asset sale - and a valuable profitable asset at that.

So far your "cuts" will cost us future income and be less severe than those anticipated. Hmm... you're not selling your side well here.

acotone · 19-10-2010 01:04PM

That's nonsense, the ESB make a profit cause they go over the backs of their customers...the Irish people !! you obviously didn't read the article about the ESB trying to let their customer pay for their own pay hikes by increasing prices by 5%

Why did the UK and Dutch governments privatize their own Electricity companies !?

At least the French people are demonstrating

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