Britain's breech of international protocol in its occupation of the North of Ireland

Gerry Asstrix · 15-10-2010 03:13PM #1

The following are breeches of UN covenant by Great Britain in their occupation and illegal presence in the North of Ireland, I brought this up in after hours, but decided post it here to get more serious debate going about the issue.

1. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. GA Res. 2200A(XXI), Dec 16th 1966. 21.GAOR Supp. (No 16) at 52, UN Doc. A/6316 (1966). 999 U.N. -S.171 entered into force March 23, 1976. ) Part.1 Art,1(1).

2. The International Covenant on Economic Social and Cultural Rights. GA Res. 2200A (XXI). Dec 16th 1966. Dec 16th 1966. 21 GAOR Supp. (No.16) at 49, U/N. Doc. A/6316 (1966), 993 U.N.T.:S.3. entered into force on 3rd of January 1976. Part.1. Art.1. Art 1 (1).

3. The United Nations Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples. (Adopted by the UN General Assembly on 14th December 1960). GA Res. 1514/XV, Dec 14th, 1960. Article 4 and Article 6.

4. Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning
Friendly Relations and Co-operation Among States in Accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.G.A. Res. 2625, 25 UN GAOR Supp. No. 28 at 121, UN doc. A/8082 (1970)

Nijmegen · 15-10-2010 03:14PM

Quickly, call Kof... Oh, wait, what's his name?

Nijmegen · 15-10-2010 03:18PM

Though if I could ask, how would Northern Ireland be any different under Republic of Ireland rule if the Unionists felt the same about us?

Or how any of it would apply given that

We signed a treaty in the 1920's about this
More recently, we passed a small little vote about it in 1998, both sides of the border

bladespin · 15-10-2010 03:21PM

How can you apply laws from the 1960s to something that happened in the 12th century, by the time those laws were introduced NI was part of Britain,they didn't invade and occupy it after that, it was declared a seperate state and democratically decided to remain part of Britain.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 15-10-2010 03:32PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfVkuPmpc8

LordSutch · 15-10-2010 03:46PM

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Britain's breech of international protocol in its occupation of the North of Ireland

I presume you mean 'Northern Ireland'.

imme · 15-10-2010 03:48PM

:eek: x 214

*yawns*

I'm sure they'll pull out tomorrow:rolleyes:

The present political situation in Ireland (north & south) predates the UN.

mathepac · 15-10-2010 05:51PM

bladespin wrote: »

... by the time those laws were introduced NI was part of Britain ...

NI was never part of Britain, not even part of Great Britain.

bladespin wrote: »

... it was declared a seperate state and democratically decided to remain part of Britain.

I must gave missed that in all the gerrymandering* that took place. Despite Unionist assertions and aspirations NI is still not part of Britain, nor will it ever be unless they can staple it to the large island to their East.

Have a look at an atlas some time.

*defined and explained in a good dictionary

KeithAFC · 15-10-2010 06:08PM

What point is this thread trying to tell us?

bladespin · 15-10-2010 06:34PM

mathepac wrote: »

NI was never part of Britain, not even part of Great Britain.

Eh, yes' it definately is, look at a map.

mathepac wrote: »

I must gave missed that in all the gerrymandering* that took place. Despite Unionist assertions and aspirations NI is still not part of Britain, nor will it ever be unless they can staple it to the large island to their East.

Have a look at an atlas some time.

*defined and explained in a good dictionary

My atlas says it's part of Britain, show me an atlas that says different.

Think you've got your geography screwed up, there are many countries within other countries, Ulster or NI is part of the Island of Ireland but it's part of Britain, at least until they decide democratically they don't want to be, as there's a Unionist majority there that's very unlikely ever to happen.

jock101 · 15-10-2010 07:43PM

LordSutch wrote: »

I presume you mean 'Northern Ireland'.

The six Ulster counties of the United Kingdom!:)

Scoobydoobydoo · 15-10-2010 07:59PM

bladespin wrote: »

Eh, yes' it definately is, look at a map.

My atlas says it's part of Britain, show me an atlas that says different.

Think you've got your geography screwed up, there are many countries within other countries, Ulster or NI is part of the Island of Ireland but it's part of Britain, at least until they decide democratically they don't want to be, as there's a Unionist majority there that's very unlikely ever to happen.

My understanding is that Britain consists of England, Scotland & Wales only, and that the six counties fall under United Kingdom (of Great Britain & Northern Ireland). Personally, I don't always trust just any map, particularly if, for example, it reads Londonderry instead of Derry.

jock101 · 15-10-2010 08:05PM

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

My understanding is that Britain consists of England, Scotland & Wales only, and that the six counties fall under United Kingdom (of Great Britain & Northern Ireland). Personally, I don't always trust just any map, particularly if, for example, it reads Londonderry instead of Derry.

The city is called Londonderry and the County is called Derry!

jackbenimble · 15-10-2010 08:15PM

mathepac said:

NI was never part of Britain, not even part of Great Britain.

Correct - it is part of The UK and part of The British Isles.

I must gave missed that in all the gerrymandering* that took place. Despite Unionist assertions and aspirations NI is still not part of Britain, nor will it ever be unless they can staple it to the large island to their East.

Have a look at an atlas some time.

*defined and explained in a good dictionary

Indeed - though generally misunderstood by many in Ireland.

Scoobydoobydoo · 15-10-2010 08:28PM

jock101 wrote: »

The city is called Londonderry and the County is called Derry!

Obviously I'm referring to the city only. London was added along the way to the original name, but I thought in recent times it was again popularly known simply as Derry.

Ren2k7 · 16-10-2010 01:14AM

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Obviously I'm referring to the city only. London was added along the way to the original name, but I thought in recent times it was again popularly known simply as Derry.

The city is still officially called Londonderry, while its city council is officially Derry City Council. The Council petitioned the Privy Council in London to have the citys name legally changed but so far have been unsuccessful.

As for the op's suggestion that Northern Ireland is being illegally occupied, the majority inhabitants of the province would say otherwise. As soon as the people of the north decide they do not want to be part of the UK then their wishes will be respected.

Occupation forces rarely heed the opinion of the local population, eg. Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Kurdistan, etc.

junder · 16-10-2010 12:11PM

The city and the county are both still officially Londonderry

Wolfe Tone · 16-10-2010 12:16PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

What point is this thread trying to tell us?

"Brits out!"

One assumes.

Wolfe Tone · 16-10-2010 12:17PM

Not the Derry name debate again lads.... lol oscar will throw a wobbler!

LordSutch · 16-10-2010 04:20PM

bladespin wrote: »

My atlas says it's part of Britain, show me an atlas that says different.

Think you've got your geography screwed up, there are many countries within other countries, Ulster or NI is part of the Island of Ireland but it's part of Britain, at least until they decide democratically they don't want to be, as there's a Unionist majority there that's very unlikely ever to happen.

Either your Atlas is seriously flawed or you don't understand the basics of local geography. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain, but it is part of the political entity known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, ergo NI is part of the UK, along with England Scotland & Wales.

Hope this helps

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 04:43PM

Page 2 and we're already debating city names!

Bottle_of_Smoke · 16-10-2010 06:02PM

Just so you know there's you can change your settings to have 40 posts per page

Makes reading long threads less tedious

Richard · 30-10-2010 08:13AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Either your Atlas is seriously flawed or you don't understand the basics of local geography. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain, but it is part of the political entity known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, ergo NI is part of the UK, along with England Scotland & Wales.

Hope this helps

Britain is a vague term and can either refer to "Great Britain" of which Northern Ireland is not a part or the UK, which it is.

If a BBC News report is talking about Britain's economy, then it us referring to the whole UK, but if it is referring to Britain's railways, it is probably talking about Great Britain only.

I usually avoid talking about "Britain" for that reason.

getz · 30-10-2010 08:41AM

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

My understanding is that Britain consists of England, Scotland & Wales only, and that the six counties fall under United Kingdom (of Great Britain & Northern Ireland). Personally, I don't always trust just any map, particularly if, for example, it reads Londonderry instead of Derry.

londonderry or derry both names are excepted for the place on irish passports, both names are correct, londonderry is what the city is calling itself when advertising as the UK city of culture around the world to attract tourism ,

The Saint · 30-10-2010 09:28AM

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

The following are breeches of UN covenant by Great Britain in their occupation and illegal presence in the North of Ireland, I brought this up in after hours, but decided post it here to get more serious debate going about the issue.

1. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. GA Res. 2200A(XXI), Dec 16th 1966. 21.GAOR Supp. (No 16) at 52, UN Doc. A/6316 (1966). 999 U.N. -S.171 entered into force March 23, 1976. ) Part.1 Art,1(1).

2. The International Covenant on Economic Social and Cultural Rights. GA Res. 2200A (XXI). Dec 16th 1966. Dec 16th 1966. 21 GAOR Supp. (No.16) at 49, U/N. Doc. A/6316 (1966), 993 U.N.T.:S.3. entered into force on 3rd of January 1976. Part.1. Art.1. Art 1 (1).

3. The United Nations Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples. (Adopted by the UN General Assembly on 14th December 1960). GA Res. 1514/XV, Dec 14th, 1960. Article 4 and Article 6.

4. Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning
Friendly Relations and Co-operation Among States in Accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.G.A. Res. 2625, 25 UN GAOR Supp. No. 28 at 121, UN doc. A/8082 (1970)

Um, do you not see the irony of citing UN conventions when the UK's official title at the UN is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, therefore Nothern Ireland being recognised as part of the UK by the organisation whose conventions you cite?

oncevotedff · 30-10-2010 10:53AM

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

The following are breeches of UN covenant by Great Britain in their occupation and illegal presence in the North of Ireland, I brought this up in after hours, but decided post it here to get more serious debate going about the issue.

The only hole in your argument is that GB isn't occupying nor maintaining an illegal presence in Northern Ireland any more than it is occupying Northumberland or maintaining an illegal presence in Gloucestershire. The fact that NI is an integral and legal part of the UK is recognised by the UN, the EU and the Republic of Ireland amongst others.

Richard · 30-10-2010 11:09AM

getz wrote: »

londonderry or derry both names are excepted for the place on irish passports, both names are correct, londonderry is what the city is calling itself when advertising as the UK city of culture around the world to attract tourism ,

I think it's Derry/Londonderry when it comes to the City of Culture (though it was mildly amusing to see Martin McGuinness cheering "Derry/Londonderry" on "The One Show" when the result was announced!

Derry can also be used on British passports (this has been allowed for some time) and both names are allowed on birth certificates. The council, as others have said is "Derry City Council" but the port is Londonderry Port.

Terrontress · 30-10-2010 11:13AM

Richard wrote: »

Britain is a vague term and can either refer to "Great Britain" of which Northern Ireland is not a part or the UK, which it is.

If a BBC News report is talking about Britain's economy, then it us referring to the whole UK, but if it is referring to Britain's railways, it is probably talking about Great Britain only.

I usually avoid talking about "Britain" for that reason.

Britain is a geographic term and not a political one. As I understand it, Great Britain, Ireland, Isle of Man, parts of Northern France are all part of "Britain".

Like you, I don't think the word "Britain" has much merit and is too ambiguous.

mathepac · 30-10-2010 12:02PM

oncevotedff wrote: »

... The fact that NI is an integral and legal part of the UK is recognised by the UN, the EU and the Republic of Ireland amongst others.

The Republic of Ireland recognises no such thing as there is no such country. If you are an Irish citizen look at your passport; it names your country.

Happy Monday · 30-10-2010 12:11PM

mathepac wrote: »

The Republic of Ireland recognises no such thing as there is no such country. If you are an Irish citizen look at your passport; it names your country.

Yes it does - or at least 90% of people recognise NI as part of the UK.
Ireland refers to the 26 counties as the Irish government only has jurisdiction over this part of the island.
Did you not get a copy of the GFA 1998?

Essexboy · 30-10-2010 01:39PM

I think you mean breach!

As a noun, a breach is something broken off or open, as in a breach in a military line during combat.

“Breech” however, refers to rear ends, as in “breeches” (slang spelling “britches” ). Thus “breech cloth,” “breech birth,” or “breech-loading gun.”

“Once more unto the breach, dear friends,” means “let’s charge into the gap in the enemy’s defences,” not “let’s reach into our pants again.”

Britain's breech of international protocol in its occupation of the North of Ireland

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