Ireland's greatest person

I don't think that anyone suggested here that Collins was Marxist - in fact the contrary. But in A Path to Freedom he shows how fluid his economic polices were and suggests that "The profits from the mineral resources - the working of mines, the development of water power etc. - will belong to the nation for the advantage of the whole nation". In another place he writes "We will hope to see in Ireland industrial conciliation and arbitration taking the place of strikes and the workers sharing in the ownership and management of business".

A read of his essays does also certainly reveal him to be as nationalist and as passionately anti-English as anyone else who fought in 1916. So to suggest that Collins somehow was a shade apart is a false notion. Collins wanted rid of the English and freedom for Ireland - getting rid of the odious connection with England being a top priority that he comes back to again and again in these writings.

"The Irish struggle has always been for freedom- freedom from English occupation, from English interference and from English domination - not for freedom with any particular label attached to it. What we fought for at any particular time was the greatest measure of freedom obtainable at that time and it depended upon our strength whether the claim was greater than at another time or lesser than at another time."

Collins also lays the blame for the violence of 1916 at the door of the British forces. He writes "In the first two years all violence was the work of the British armed forces who in their efforts of suppression murdered fifteen Irishmen and wounded nearly 400 men, women and children. Meetings were broken up everywhere, National newspapers were suppressed. Over 1,000 men and women were arrested for political offenses, usually of the most trivial nature...These forces were kept here or sent here by the British government to harass the development of Irish self-government".

Collins goes on to describe the British presence in Ireland from 1916 to the time of the early 1920s as a 'Reign of Terror' - his words. He castigates the British presence in Ireland - emphasises the British policy of violence to suppress nationalism - and waves aside any suggestion that there was any change of heart on the side of the British to pulling back on the violence. The British "did not repent in the middle of their Black and Tan terror". Those in Britain who opposed this terror "were pacifists with very little power" - the same people who had opposed WWI without any results.

Collins describes as a false notion the idea that the British wanted peace in Ireland - in fact he says what they really wanted was "destruction of the national movement". He writes "In Aug 1920 a law was passed 'to restore law and order in Ireland', this law in reality abolished all law in Ireland and left the lives and property of the people defenceless before the British forces".

MarchDub wrote: »

I don't think that anyone suggested here that Collins was Marxist - in fact the contrary. But in A Path to Freedom he shows how fluid his economic polices were and suggests that "The profits from the mineral resources - the working of mines, the development of water power etc. - will belong to the nation for the advantage of the whole nation". In another place he writes "We will hope to see in Ireland industrial conciliation and arbitration taking the place of strikes and the workers sharing in the ownership and management of business".

A read of his essays does also certainly reveal him to be as nationalist and as passionately anti-English as anyone else who fought in 1916. So to suggest that Collins somehow was a shade apart is a false notion. Collins wanted rid of the English and freedom for Ireland - getting rid of the odious connection with England being a top priority that he comes back to again and again in these writings.

"The Irish struggle has always been for freedom- freedom from English occupation, from English interference and from English domination - not for freedom with any particular label attached to it. What we fought for at any particular time was the greatest measure of freedom obtainable at that time and it depended upon our strength whether the claim was greater than at another time or lesser than at another time."

Collins also lays the blame for the violence of 1916 at the door of the British forces. He writes "In the first two years all violence was the work of the British armed forces who in their efforts of suppression murdered fifteen Irishmen and wounded nearly 400 men, women and children. Meetings were broken up everywhere, National newspapers were suppressed. Over 1,000 men and women were arrested for political offenses, usually of the most trivial nature...These forces were kept here or sent here by the British government to harass the development of Irish self-government".

Collins goes on to describe the British presence in Ireland from 1916 to the time of the early 1920s as a 'Reign of Terror' - his words. He castigates the British presence in Ireland - emphasises the British policy of violence to suppress nationalism - and waves aside any suggestion that there was any change of heart on the side of the British to pulling back on the violence. The British "did not repent in the middle of their Black and Tan terror". Those in Britain who opposed this terror "were pacifists with very little power" - the same people who had opposed WWI without any results.

Collins describes as a false notion the idea that the British wanted peace in Ireland - in fact he says what they really wanted was "destruction of the national movement". He writes "In Aug 1920 a law was passed 'to restore law and order in Ireland', this law in reality abolished all law in Ireland and left the lives and property of the people defenceless before the British forces".

No doubting you, where are the above quotes from, The Path to Freedom ?

MarchDub wrote: »

Yes, the selection of various essays and notes written by Collins himself. All the quotes in my post are Collins' own words.

At Bachelors Walk in 1913 the British army killed 4 and wounded 30 or more. Collins writes "In the first two years all violence was the work of the British armed forces who in their efforts of suppression murdered fifteen Irishmen and wounded nearly 400 men, women and children."

Where the other deaths caused by attacks of meetings, cell beatings etc ? A bit off topic, but any idea anyone ?

Dionysus wrote: »

An t-Éireannach is fearr? Aodh Mór Ó Néill, gan amhras ar bith.

An extraordinary person at an extraordinary time in Ireland's history. It's embarrassing that any list of supposedly great Irish people could overlook him.

Great choice!

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Agus Aodh Ruadh Ó Domhnaill.

Yes. Him too. You know some years ago I was reading some of the source material from the Battle of Kinsale and something that always stayed with me was the description of O'Donnell - in the jaws of defeat - running around the rear of the Irish army lines - when they were in retreat- desperately trying to convince them to stay their positions. A man of great passion and conviction.

Gateley was included and scored high due an internet campaign among the gays to give him a high score :rolleyes: Whatever about Bono, at least he has done a bit more for the less fortunate in the world than that airhead Gateley.

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Beckett also outstrips Bono anyday.
It's not even a case of apples and oranges... more like apples and combustion engines.

i have already made an anti-Bono comment on this thread but your comment is on the money. i'm not into yeats or joyce but rather them than bono. i dont know if bono gives any of his own money to all the causes he promotes but he reminds me of the smiley people who stop you in the street and ask you to give X ammount each month to their particular cause or charity, they get paid for this and dont do it for charity. if you ask any of them if they give to the charity themselves they will answer NO. and before anyone asks how i know this i have asked some of them when they stoped me.to me imo this fits in with bonos profile