Discrimination

redto · 30-09-2010 03:00PM #1

Is it discrimination when motorcyclists have to remove their helmets in shops banks etc to allow for identification and certain religeon's dont have to remove their head coverings?

What is the basis for the 'helmets must be removed' notices or is there any

onlyrocknroll · 30-09-2010 03:05PM

redto wrote: »

Is it discrimination when motorcyclists have to remove their helmets in shops banks etc to allow for identification and certain religeon's dont have to remove their head coverings?

What is the basis for the 'helmets must be removed' notices or is there any

The basis is that the helmet conceals the identity of the wearer in the same way a balaclava would.

If you're arguing that certain religions who cover their face shouldn't be allowed do so in banks, then you have a serious point worth raising.

But if you're saying that motorcyclists are being discriminated against (which you seem to be) then I suggest that you're a bit oversensitive.

meditraitor · 30-09-2010 03:08PM

When I start seeing Burkha wearing criminals on crimwatch robbing post offices I might agree with you but for now, live and let live....

redto · 30-09-2010 03:14PM

I suppose im being oversensitive but only in so far as why is it not the same rule for everyone/ every headgear type

onlyrocknroll · 30-09-2010 03:16PM

meditraitor wrote: »

When I start seeing Burkha wearing criminals on crimwatch robbing post offices I might agree with you but for now, live and let live....

Even then, that would just be a double standard, the OP is claiming that he's being discriminated against!

Looking through the UN Declaration of Human Rights, I can't find the right to wear a motorcycle helmet in a bank or a shop.

OP, are you afraid of injuring yourself when you shop or something?

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-09-2010 03:17PM

redto wrote: »

I suppose im being oversensitive but only in so far as why is it not the same rule for everyone/ every headgear type

Because there is a long and proud tradition of people in motorcycle helmets robbing banks that doesn't exist with nuns or muslim women.

You don't have to wear your motorcycle helmet when you aren't on your bike in the same way people feel they should wear scarves for religious reasons. Its safety wear, what is going to injure their heads in a bank?

redto · 30-09-2010 03:23PM

meditraitor wrote: »

When I start seeing Burkha wearing criminals on crimwatch robbing post offices I might agree with you but for now, live and let live....

Usually I do but every now an then something bugs me and this is one of those things. I never did anything wrong so why pick on me.

Some people who robbed post offices wore helmets, Some people who wore burquas carried out suicide bombings.

redto · 30-09-2010 03:26PM

Im being pedantic , motorcyclist nun takes off helmet but has veil on under it.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-09-2010 03:30PM

redto wrote: »

Usually I do but every now an then something bugs me and this is one of those things. I never did anything wrong so why pick on me.

You aren't being picked on. There have been previous incidents of people with motorcycle helmets robbing banks and as such, because there is no valid reason for you to have a helmet on in a bank, you are aksed to take it off.

redto wrote: »

Some people who robbed post offices wore helmets, Some people who wore burquas carried out suicide bombings.

Ahhh, to coin a phrase, the mask slips. This is plain old muslim bashing.

onlyrocknroll · 30-09-2010 03:38PM

I agree with OP.

I like wearing masks and carrying crowbars. Sometimes when I combine these hobbies whilst out shopping I get discriminated against. I'm being victimised.

redto · 30-09-2010 03:40PM

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

Even then, that would just be a double standard, the OP is claiming that he's being discriminated against!

Looking through the UN Declaration of Human Rights, I can't find the right to wear a motorcycle helmet in a bank or a shop.

OP, are you afraid of injuring yourself when you shop or something?

Im not afraid of injuring myself,

some days sh t happens and i wonder where I live.

I got the remove helmet thing in a shop, there was a lady with a head covering but no one said anything to her.

Im just having a rant because sometimes I think everyone has some special something that allows them to claim discrimination against them. Im a middle aged white irish guy who rides a motorcycle.

Im not a 'non national, traveler, colored, gay, bi, short, disabled, muslim, jewish, 'eastern european' therefore Im a nobody,

I will pay my taxes and shut up and do what im told by everyone, legislation will be passed, notices put up but none for my benifit.

Rant over

Nodin · 30-09-2010 03:41PM

redto wrote: »

Im not afraid of injuring myself,

some days sh t happens and i wonder where I live.

I got the remove helmet thing in a shop, there was a lady with a head covering but no one said anything to her.

Im just having a rant because sometimes I think everyone has some special something that allows them to claim discrimination against them. Im a middle aged white irish guy who rides a motorcycle.

Im not a 'non national, traveler, colored, gay, bi, short, disabled, muslim, jewish, 'eastern european' therefore Im a nobody,

I will pay my taxes and shut up and do what im told by everyone, legislation will be passed, notices put up but none for my benifit.

Rant over

God love ye, ye poor thing.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 30-09-2010 03:45PM

Burkha clad robbers hhhhhhmmmmmm

well there not totally unheard of

http://www.france24.com/en/20100210-burqa-robbers-post-office-paris-nicolas-sarkozy-ban-national-identity-france-muslim

onlyrocknroll · 30-09-2010 03:47PM

redto wrote: »

I got the remove helmet thing in a shop, there was a lady with a head covering but no one said anything to her

.

She sounds terrifying. :eek:

Im just having a rant because sometimes I think everyone has some special something that allows them to claim discrimination against them. Im a middle aged white irish guy who rides a motorcycle.

Im not a 'non national, traveler, colored, gay, bi, short, disabled, muslim, jewish, 'eastern european' therefore Im a nobody,

You're a nobody because you have to take off your helmet?

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-09-2010 03:51PM

redto wrote: »

Im not afraid of injuring myself,

some days sh t happens and i wonder where I live.

I got the remove helmet thing in a shop, there was a lady with a head covering but no one said anything to her.

Im just having a rant because sometimes I think everyone has some special something that allows them to claim discrimination against them. Im a middle aged white irish guy who rides a motorcycle.

Im not a 'non national, traveler, colored, gay, bi, short, disabled, muslim, jewish, 'eastern european' therefore Im a nobody,

I will pay my taxes and shut up and do what im told by everyone, legislation will be passed, notices put up but none for my benifit.

Rant over

What Joe Duffy nonsense.

Your helmet has a specific puropse - to offer your head a degree of protection when on your bike. You have no reason to be wearing it in a shop.

The lady in the headscarf, whether she me Catholic, Muslim or Jewish wears the scarf all the time.

This rant is the equivalent of me complaiing I'm discriminated agaisnt because swimmers are allowed wear speedos and nothing else in the pool, but when I do the same outside the girls primary school I have to wear a tag and sign on the register.

Context is everything. You have no business wearing that helmet in a shop, i have no business wearing a banana hammock around schoolgirls.

onlyrocknroll · 30-09-2010 03:57PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What Joe Duffy nonsense.
This rant is the equivalent of me complaiing I'm discriminated agaisnt because swimmers are allowed wear speedos and nothing else in the pool, but when I do the same outside the girls primary school I have to wear a tag and sign on the register.
.

There should be a funny analogy of the day award on boards.

Laminations · 30-09-2010 04:08PM

Redto, its not discrimination, it is double standards. However many on here will only agree with a campaign against doible standards if it is a minority or an ethnic or religious group being affected. People pointed out to you that some individuals in the past have worn helmets in the commission of crime. These instances, in their eyes, justify restrictions on you and everybody else who wears a helmet regardless of whether you have committed crimes or intend to commit crime. however it's the identity concealment attribute of a motor cycle helmet that makes it intimidating and dangerous. Regardless of whether you are a criminal or not, the fact that it hides your identity is the issue. This issue is present for any face covering but if you raise this as a double standard, you are shouted down as a bigot. I don't care if a burka wearer has no intention to commit a crime, just like I don't care whether you have no intention to commit a crime- you remove your helmet because of it's characteristics, and being required to do so in no way tarnishes your character. Same with burkas IMO, but many on here won't give an even handed approach when an issue involves something sensitive like religious beliefs. In certain areas/buildings face covering of any sort should be banned.

Laminations · 30-09-2010 04:14PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What Joe Duffy nonsense.

Your helmet has a specific puropse - to offer your head a degree of protection when on your bike. You have no reason to be wearing it in a shop.

The lady in the headscarf, whether she me Catholic, Muslim or Jewish wears the scarf all the time.

This rant is the equivalent of me complaiing I'm discriminated agaisnt because swimmers are allowed wear speedos and nothing else in the pool, but when I do the same outside the girls primary school I have to wear a tag and sign on the register.

Context is everything. You have no business wearing that helmet in a shop, i have no business wearing a banana hammock around schoolgirls.

Stupid analogy and it goes to prove the OPs point - that certain clothing is place/context appropriate. A more apt analogy for what he is saying is that you turn up outside a school in just your jocks and get arrested (rightly so) while next to you someone is equally scantilly clad but is wearing religious speedos so is allowed to continue to 'practice' their religion regardless of the appropriateness. It's not discrimination that you are arrested or that redto is told to remove his helmet, it's common sense. It is double standards when someone has religious reasons for doing things that are otherwise not allowed and they are free from interference for fear of offending them

dvpower · 30-09-2010 04:19PM

redto wrote: »

Is it discrimination when motorcyclists have to remove their helmets in shops banks etc to allow for identification and certain religeon's dont have to remove their head coverings?

What is the basis for the 'helmets must be removed' notices or is there any

Shops and banks can if they want require nuns and muslims to remove their head gear before entering.

They don't because they don't percieve a substantial risk. No discrimination. No double standards.

redto wrote: »

Im not a 'non national, traveler, colored, gay, bi, short, disabled, muslim, jewish, 'eastern european' therefore Im a nobody,

I will pay my taxes and shut up and do what im told by everyone, legislation will be passed, notices put up but none for my benifit.

I see now.
This has nothing to do with discrimination at all. Its just a thinly veiled:pac: dig at minorities.

KeithAFC · 30-09-2010 04:24PM

Being told im a protestant bastard and told to get out of Ireland. Sigh.

Laminations · 30-09-2010 04:25PM

dvpower wrote: »

Shops and banks can if they want require nuns and muslims to remove their head gear before entering.

They don't because they don't percieve a substantial risk. No discrimination. No double standards.
.

So you are saying that because motor cycle helmet wearers have committed crime in the past then anyone who wears that attire is a greater risk? What about people who wear tracksuits? Or women with Dublin accents pushing buggies? You seem to be saying that because of certain instances related to certain dress that it is ok to generalise? I'm sure you'd rightly object to similar generalisations in other areas? Why are motor bike helmet wearers seen as a greater risk?

dvpower · 30-09-2010 04:34PM

Laminations wrote: »

So you are saying that because motor cycle helmet wearers have committed crime in the past then anyone who wears that attire is a greater risk? What about people who wear tracksuits? Or women with Dublin accents pushing buggies? You seem to be saying that because of certain instances related to certain dress that it is ok to generalise? I'm sure you'd rightly object to similar generalisations in other areas? Why are motor bike helmet wearers seen as a greater risk?

Yes. Motor cycle helmets are commonly used by bank and shop raiders as a tool in the commissioning of the crime in order to hide their identity.

When criminals find some ingenious way of using tracksuits, Dublin accents and buggies in a similar way, I'll be supporting counter measures.

Scofflaw · 30-09-2010 04:45PM

I think we'll find that most robberies are committed by men. There are no religious traditions I know of that require concealing head gear for men. If there were, that might well have the same risk profile as a motorcycle helmet on a man, at least in areas where such head gear was common.

cordially,
Scofflaw

gurramok · 30-09-2010 04:47PM

One of the London bombers escaped wearing a Burkha. Nice pic too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6378863.stm

Noone should be allowed to cover their face in a bank.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-09-2010 04:48PM

Laminations wrote: »

Redto, its not discrimination, it is double standards. However many on here will only agree with a campaign against doible standards if it is a minority or an ethnic or religious group being affected. People pointed out to you that some individuals in the past have worn helmets in the commission of crime. These instances, in their eyes, justify restrictions on you and everybody else who wears a helmet regardless of whether you have committed crimes or intend to commit crime. however it's the identity concealment attribute of a motor cycle helmet that makes it intimidating and dangerous. Regardless of whether you are a criminal or not, the fact that it hides your identity is the issue. This issue is present for any face covering but if you raise this as a double standard, you are shouted down as a bigot. I don't care if a burka wearer has no intention to commit a crime, just like I don't care whether you have no intention to commit a crime- you remove your helmet because of it's characteristics, and being required to do so in no way tarnishes your character. Same with burkas IMO, but many on here won't give an even handed approach when an issue involves something sensitive like religious beliefs. In certain areas/buildings face covering of any sort should be banned.

The issue isn't about bicycle helmets per say, muslims also have to remove them.

The issue is about RISK and reduction therof. People have turned over too many banks wearing them for banks to allow them. Nuns and muslim women have not turned over banks wearing scarves, so banks don't feel the need to ask them to remove, even though they have the right to do so.

Their place, their rules. Its not some deep conspiracy positively discriminate, its about preventing robberies.

If you can give me a legitimate reason as to why someone needs to wear a motorcycle helmet in a bank, I'll consider their right to do so. If you can't, then they don't have one.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-09-2010 04:50PM

gurramok wrote: »

One of the London bombers escaped wearing a Burkha. Nice pic too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6378863.stm

Noone should be allowed to cover their face in a bank.

And if we were discussing counter terrorism, that might have relevance. We aren't, we are discussing banks and shops in Ireland, and I have never heard of a burka wearing thief. I have heard of motorcycle helmet wearing robbers though.

Its that simple. Risk is higher due to past experience.

southsiderosie · 30-09-2010 05:55PM

redto wrote: »

Im not afraid of injuring myself,

some days sh t happens and i wonder where I live.

I got the remove helmet thing in a shop, there was a lady with a head covering but no one said anything to her.

Just for clarification - she had her head covered or her face covered?

ChocolateSauce · 30-09-2010 06:46PM

The answer is yes, it is discriminatory.

southsiderosie · 30-09-2010 07:18PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

The answer is yes, it is discriminatory.

How?

If the logic behind not wearing motorcycle helmets is that they hide your face, then any apparel that hides the face should be illegal in a bank. If the woman was wearing a full niquab or burqua (which cover the face), then there would be a problem. But if she was just wearing a hijab (which leaves the face showing), then I don't see the problem. This is why I asked the OP to clarify what exactly he was talking about.

johnnyskeleton · 30-09-2010 10:52PM

If someone observes Islam to such an extent that they insist on wearing a burkah wherever they go, then they are very unlikely to set foot in a bank.

Much the same as you rarely see right wing christians buying condoms.

dvpower · 30-09-2010 11:08PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If someone observes Islam to such an extent that they insist on wearing a burkah wherever they go, then they are very unlikely to set foot in a bank.

.... so it follows that anyone wearing a burka in a bank isn't a Muslim, but is in fact, a raider about to carry out a robbery.

Discrimination

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