Autorised Dealer and a questionable NCT

BenEadir · 30-09-2010 12:00PM #1

Hi all,

I've got a situation I need some serious advice on. I don't know much about cars or mechanics in general so as a long term Boardsie I know I will get some solid advice here.

I recently bought a used XXX brand of passanger 4x4 from an authorised XXX dealer. The car looked in great condition, had reasonable mileage, had a full service history (most of which was with this dealer) including a very recent service and new tyres. We agreed I'd pay €YYY after trade in of my old car and I was very happy with the price agreed, particularly from an authorised XXX dealer as I had been looking at prices for a while and this was by far the best deal around for equivalent models etc. Given my lack of mechanical knowledge I place a lot of value in the comfort of buying from an authorised dealer.

The deal was conditional on the following:-

1. I was to get a 6 month "bumper to bumper" warranty.
2. The dealer said he had had the car in stock over 6 months and the NCT was out but he'd get it renewed before I collected the car.

We shook hands on the deal and agreed I'd return 3 days later with a draft by which time he'd have put it through the NCT.

I returned as agreed and the NCT had been done as promised although the certificate only runs until January 2011 which the dealer explained was as a result of the fact it was back dated to the expiry of the old cert. This sounded reasonable and I assumed old cert ran out in Jan this year which added to the 6 months the car was in stock wasn't implausible. I handed over the draft and set off on my way.

Within 2 minutes of leaving the dealer I noticed a 15 inch horizontal crack along the very bottom of the windscreen. In fairness it was sitting behind and perhaps partly obscured by the wipers so I went back pointed it out to the dealer and he agreed to replace the windscreen no problem but he'd have to get it into stock etc.

While I was waiting for the windscreen to to come into stock I noticed that the Air Con was only blowing warm air and that one of the tail lights had a 4 inch crack which was letting water into the brake light assembly and discolouring it. I called the dealer and again he agreed to replace the brake light assembly and fix the Air Con at the same time as the windscreen was being done. It did dawn on me and I mentioned it to the dealer that both the cracked windscreen and cracked tail light should have been picked up during the NCT but as he was happy to replace/fix them I was happy to just let it go with making the comment and I was very happy that the dealer was standing over the warranty without question.

So far a few niggles but everything's getting fixed so what's the problem????

Yesterday I was driving down the country and there has been some feedback through the steering wheel which I noticed when I originally got the car and put down to the new tyres needing to be balanced. I decided to let the tyres bed in for a few weeks but as yesterday I had a meeting near a tyre shop so went in and got them to balance the two front tyres. They are a large and busy tyre business and have a new(ish) laser balancer. I came back as they were doing it and the owner of the business called me aside to ask me where I got the tyres as they are clearly new. I told him and he pointed out that none of the 4 tyres (which are Triangle M+S TR 258 P235/65R17's) have the obligatory E mark. I told him the car passed it's NCT very recently and he was very surprised as it should have failed on the tyres. He made a few off the cuff comments which gave me the impression that dealers sometimes get cars through NCT's because of their cosy relationship with the people doing the testing. BTW each tyre took +/- 200 grams of weight which amazed the technician. He said it was a huge amount and very very unusual for new tyres.

My problem now is what can or should I do?? If you count each illegal tyre as a fail point on it's own (and a single illegal tyre would fail the car) there were at least 6 failures missed by the NCT. Do I make a complaint to both the NCT authorities and the XXX master distributor or do I give the XXX dealer an opportunity to put legal tyres on the car? Did the XXX dealer do anything wrong selling a car with illegal tyres?

4 new decent tyres (the Triangles feel crap and are fairly slippy) will set me back €600 so I want to avoid that if possible.

To make matters worse the CV joint on the front left drive shaft started clicking a few days ago and this morning when turning tightly into a parking spot the ledt front side of the car starting lurching and at one point even though I pushed the accelerator the car wasn't moving forward so I need to go back to the dealer and get this fixed under the warranty but before I do I need to know how best to deal with the illegal tyre and questionable NCT issue.

If you have taken the time to read through all the above, thanks. If you can give me the benefit of your experience and some practical advice to help me resolve this situation I'd be very grateful.

Lastly, If the recently acquired NCT needs to be renewed in January does that mean the last NCT ran out in Jan 2008 and the car was without an NCT for 19 months??

Regards,

Ben

Henry Ford III · 30-09-2010 12:23PM

Not sure what advice to give tbh. Looks like you bought a wrong'un however.

Why didn't you check the car over fully beforehand? A cracked windscreen and non working a/c are simple to spot.

Tyres wise I'd go back to the seller. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he put conforming tyres on just to pass the NCT.

thewintermute · 30-09-2010 12:52PM

It's complicated with the trade in, but I'd be looking a refund.The vehicle you bought is not fit for purpose, would not pass an NCT today and has probably not been NCT'd for a year and a half. Whn it comes to Januarys NCT it will definitely not pass as is.I find that becoming reasonably vocal in full view and earshot of potential customers works well, so pick a busy time. (Similar situation with a motorbike some years back)Do you really want to drive around for a few years in something you were never happy with from day one? I wouldn't.

BenEadir · 30-09-2010 12:54PM

Hi Henry,

I know you're right about checking it beforehand but a) I'm not in anyway qualified or experienced so don't really know what to do other than look for obvious problems (which I didn't even spot!) and b) I asked the dealer if there was anything I should know about the car and he said no, it was in tip top condition.

It didn't even cross my mind that he could have swapped the tyres for the purpose of passing the NCT. Goes to show you how little I know!!

Alternative suggestions anyone?

Ben

DublinDilbert · 30-09-2010 12:57PM

No solutions on your current problem, but I'd be fairly sure that plenty of dealers have a cosy relationship with the NCT centers.

BenEadir · 30-09-2010 01:01PM

Hi Winter,

The problem is (and this may sound stupied) the car is actually very good to drive and so far I'm very very happy with it. The dealer fixed the three issues I pointed out without question and the CV joint could go at any time so in a way it's better it goes now than a few weeks after the warranty runs out.

the niggling problem I have is that I can't help thinking the dealer, either by deliberate action or by error, has palmed off 4 illegal tyres on me which will fail the NCT in January. That is sticking in my craw.

I'm guessing I should just put my concerns in writing to him (to have an audit trail) and let the cards fall wherever they fall?

Ben

Sofiztikated · 30-09-2010 01:03PM

I don't have much to offer in way of advice, but wow, 200 weights on the tyres!

And Triangles are the lowest of the low regarding tyres. I wouldn't even put them on a trailer.

mickdw · 30-09-2010 01:08PM

If it wasnt for the fact that you are up for NCT so soon, I wouldnt be overly worried about the tyres. Seeing that you are up again for the test in 6 months, you should certainly do something about it.
I would say its a sure cert that he did in fact change to proper tyres for the test. Being a dealer for that make, Im sure he had something else in tock that he just whipped the wheels & tyres off for the day of the test.
To be fair though, the dealer does seem to be offering a very good service and has addressed all your complaints so far.

kmick · 30-09-2010 01:13PM

They could easily have changed the tyres to get it through the NCT and changed them back to non-e tyres after. Would not read to much into it.

30-09-2010 01:55PM

kmick wrote: »

They could easily have changed the tyres to get it through the NCT and changed them back to non-e tyres after. Would not read to much into it.

He'll be hit for a big bill come NCT time then, also OP, it would appear the car was due for NCT on Jan 09.

mullingar · 30-09-2010 01:57PM

@OP

I would book it in for another NCT during the next few weeks!

You are allowed to do its Jan'11 3 months early = October 2010

Ring the NCT booking line and get an appointment ASAP

kildare.17hmr · 30-09-2010 02:04PM

Ben,

You say your nct runs for 6 months until jan 11 and you still have bumper to bumper warranty from the dealer yes? im guessin you have the car what 3 monthas or so?
You can put the car through its nct now(up to 3 months before its due date) and whatever it fails on go back to the dealer and see what he can do.

What is the car by the way?

keithclancy · 30-09-2010 02:07PM

Those tyres are bloody crap !

http://www.xtire.com/bias_truck_specs.html

Cheap chinese rubbish. They don't even sell them in Germany !!

30-09-2010 03:08PM

keithclancy wrote: »

Those tyres are bloody crap !

http://www.xtire.com/bias_truck_specs.html

Cheap chinese rubbish. They don't even sell them in Germany !!

I've only ever seen them on VW for some reason.

BenEadir · 30-09-2010 03:17PM

Thanks for all the info lad's. I don't want to think the dealer is/was trying to pull a fast one as I felt he was a decent guy and did the reapairs I wanted without any quibble but the more I read about the Triangle tyres and think about the sequence of events I can't help but think that I'm getting a rough deal on the tyres.

RoverJames, you're on the money. It's a VW Touareg. Why would you only see Triangle's on VW's????

Ben

Xios · 30-09-2010 03:33PM

I'd say get a refund and report the dealer to the proper authorities, if they're carrying on like this, i'd sooner see this dealer go bankrupt than continue. Giving the honest dealers a better chance and bringing a good standard to the industry.

Cyrus · 30-09-2010 03:41PM

i drove a car with triangles once, it scared the hell out of me, they are the worst excuse for a tyre ive come across,

the tyre places that sell crap like these should be ashamed

30-09-2010 03:41PM

BenEadir wrote: »

RoverJames, you're on the money. It's a VW Touareg. Why would you only see Triangle's on VW's????

Ben

Not a clue to be honest but I have only seen them on Passat's, Jettas and a few days ago on the convertible Golf sized thing (whatever that's called, Golf convertible :pac: ).

OldGuysRule · 30-09-2010 03:52PM

With the E mark, it might be worth checking whether it is on the inside of the tyre. I remember someone panicking that half the tyres on their car had the E mark, but not the other half, until both sides of the tyre were checked. Some trye manufacturers only have the E mark on one side for some reason, even though all the rest of the usual text is on both sides.

That is not taking away from the fact that they are a budget tyre though, and I know when putting new boots on either my car or my landy, that they are the piece of equipment that holds the big heavy mass of metal / glass / plastic / me etc onto the ground each time I brake or go round a corner.

ronanc15 · 30-09-2010 03:55PM

RoverJames wrote: »

Not a clue to be honest but I have only seen them on Passat's, Jettas and a few days ago on the convertible Golf sized thing (whatever that's called, Golf convertible :pac: ).

I would imagine that's just a coincidence. I've seen them on plenty of motors, usually owned by people who don't realise the importance of the only part that keeps contact with the road.

@OP, i have a good few friends working in main dealers and I can verify that as you imagined, they have a good relationship with NCT centres, this doesnt mean however that they will pass complete heaps either.

I would push the dealer to resolve the issues you have outline and that of the tyres and then continue to enjoy your new motor. It's all a learning curve so you'll know for next time!

OldGuysRule · 01-10-2010 08:50AM

May be worth checking whether the tyres on it are exactly correct for it? Incl load ratings etc

BeardyGit · 01-10-2010 10:25AM

It's also quite possible and reasonable to think that the car may have been NCT'd with the original tyres which would have passed unless they were damaged or very worn. The actual legal requirements for thread depth are way below what most of us would consider to be the point where we'll want them replaced. It could have been tested first to see if anything failed and he would have addressed the fail points before retesting. If it passed first time it's not always going to be the case that a kickback or brown envelope is involved. I've had cars pass the test with things wrong that should have caused it to fail - It's hardly my fault, nor is it the dealers if neither you nor an NCT tester spot something that should warrant a failure. The important thing is that he's looking after issues as you bring them to his attention, at least as far as I can tell.

The Triangles may have been fitted after the NCT, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for a dealer to assume the tyres he's ordered will be 'E' marked - He may not in fact know. Have you checked both tyre walls? From what you say this guy seems like a decent fellow to deal with so maybe just let him know that someone commented on the tyres not having an E-mark and would he mind double checking they're appropriately marked as it's to be NCT'd again in January.

Also, if you don't mind me saying (as much for the benefit of anyone else buying a car with new tyres as part of the deal) if you wanted €600 worth of new tyres instead of €360 worth, he'd have had to charge you more. I've had tyres fitted to a car by dealers before I take it and I'll always agree with them on the brand in advance and I'll pay the difference between a budget tyre they'll include in the sale and the tyres I actually want. Everyone's happy that way.

Best of luck with the car. Don't let a few niggles put you off, especially if they're all easily fixed and it's not costing you. Sounds like the warranty is being honored which is a good thing for your peace of mind. Give him a chance to set your mind at rest on the tyre thing too, and don't blame him for the fact that some dealers might be exploiting unscrupulous NCT operators.

Not everyone deserves to be tarred with the Boards/Motors brush, despite what you might read here!

Autorised Dealer and a questionable NCT

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