66% of workers not in a union

OisinT wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I'm thrilled that 66% of workers are not in a union. Wish the numbers were higher actually.

Well I bring a particular experience to this discussion. I once worked in a US multinational in Ireland and contrary to what I expected, I was alarmed at how industrial relations matters were attended to. First of all from the get-go, union recognition was just not tolerated, you wouldn't even have muttered the word union in this workplace.

But a more sinister side of things I started to notice was that things that would just be taken for granted in a normal unionised workplace, were absent in this workplace. One thing in particular was access to promotions. In this workplace everything was done behind closed doors, no vacancies were advertised, people were selected for secretive interviews for vacancies on a nod and a wink basis. This all feeded into a culture of secrecy and corruption in the workplace, which fed into a serious morale problem within the workplace.

When I tried to confront this, and I said I wanted to join a union to have these matters addressed, suffice to say I didn't last very long in the company.

So my point behind that story is that unions have a purpose, I found when I asked A UNION OFFICIAL, why they couldn't represent me and help me get on top of this problem, I was basically left with the impression that there was some kind of an unwritten agreeement between the unions of this country and certain large multinational employers who "don't do unions"...

Whatever flavour of industrial relations legislation we wish to enjoy in this country, it must be made available to all workers, that's what has gone completely wrong here.

If you are a public sector worker in say the Dept. of Foreign Affairs and you have an issue with your pay, terms or conditions, you can take your grievance to the LRC, have it heard by a Rights Commissioner and the recommendation given if it is in your favour, is as good as an order made by the High Court.

However if you are working for some of the "closed order" multinationals based in this country, if you even attempt to step outside of the internal "in house" process for addressing these matters, you are basically targetted for dismissal or treated as an some kind of an industrial pariah or workplace deviant or freak.

I'm strongly of the view that whatever legislation we afford to workers of this country from herein, we cannot ever tolerate a situation again where industrial relations legislation is afforded to one group of workers but not to another. I read some of the submissions made by US lobby groups to the government during the Partnership discussions and some of what was being put forward was completely and utter wrong, it provided for a "closed order" or almost "commune" like provision for some multinationals that didn't want to recognise unions, yet these same organisations, telling their workers that they would not have access to industrial relations machinery, were big backers of IBEC who were chin deep in the partnership process.

The point I'm making is that certain businesses in this country have been telling their workers that they may have absolutely no say whatsoever in relation to national pay talks, and the development and sway of industrial relations legislation, but the same employers have been at those very talks themselves via IBEC and other lobby groups, setting the agenda for the whole country.

feelingstressed wrote: »

Unions do have a role to play still in Ireland

No country has perfect employment legislation but Ireland is pretty advanced and the LRC and Labour Court do good work.

There are areas of employment where employment rights are disregarded. Many of would have worked in hotels finishing at 4am after a 15 hours shift and told to be back for 8am breakfast shift if you want to keep your jobs. Minimum rest periods, ha! Yeah, it's private sector but why must you leave a job for somewhere else if your employer is being unreasonable?

Primetime Investigates have done excellent shows on terrible employment situations.

Very difficult to organize unions with lots of casual, part-time staff but is there a better way to do something about bad situations?

And while we have legislation, not everyone knows where to turn and unions can help here. Many young people lack the confidence to stand up to management and quote legislation or maybe you are new to Ireland and don't know where to check.
Stroll over to work forum and there are threads on people being pressured to leave so the company doesn't have to pay redundancy.

These are things that unions can focus on.
Negotiating unreasonable pay rates for some sectors only puts people out of work like the electricians.
And during the partnership talks I remember Congress issueing press releases on social housing, that has nothing to do with them!

Get back to what they were originally set up to do, helping to solve bad situations and helping members. Maybe go on recruitment drives if they think they can do something in some sectors

I recall having an issue that I wanted to take to the LRC and the reality of the situation was that my employer didn't even have to turn up!!! If they did, and a recommendation was issued in my favour, they were entirely at liberty to ignore it, no legal ramifications whatsoever!

This is the problem we are dealing with now, the same LRC recommendation in a public sector workplace is given the same weight as a High Court order. I remember being in this particular workplace and being told to my face that the company simply did not engage with ANY external parties in relation to a workplace dispute, they had all their internal procedures to deal with such issues when and where they arose. I was then told that basically I didn't fit into the organisation and that I was an unsuitable employee, when all I was trying to have addressed was a glaring issue that resulted in NO vacancies where we worked being advertised, it was all done on a nod and a wink.

Such treatment in any public sector workplace would not be tolerated for a second and rightly so, however some of the largest private sector employers in this state ride completely roughshod over what could be considered very basic and fundamental rights for workers, they then dictate the sway and tone of industrial relations legislation, to completely suit themselves and if they feel that they are not getting their way, they wheel out the same old boogeyman everytime with the line, "these companies will walk if they have to deal with a union", and the other well known one liner, "we're outa here if Corporation Tax goes up!"... These companies need to realise that even though they are large employers, they employ a very small percantage of the overall workforce on this island and they cannot hold a gun to the head of the nation and tell the whole country what industrial relations legislation that they can be entitled to...

Civilian_Target wrote: »

I don't understand why you guys are so heavily anti-union.

I'm not a unionised worker, but I do contribute a small amount to a union at my workplace every year? Why? Because they provide a valuable service of reading the contracts that we sign-but-don't-really-read, of keeping up to date with pay agreements and promotions in the company, promoting useful employee benefits like childcare and a buy-and-sell board.

Most importantly, you hear about things that management otherwise may not tell you, like the failure of a 40 million euro project. The union made details of the failed project (like the real project code) available that might not have otherwise been known to workers.

In short - unions aren't all about strikes!

You dont realise that you are paying ALOT MORE INDIRECTLY by having lousy services and waste in unionised jobs, be it your electricity or your healthcare.

MrDarcy wrote: »

These companies need to realise that even though they are large employers, they employ a very small percantage of the overall workforce on this island and they cannot hold a gun to the head of the nation and tell the whole country what industrial relations legislation that they can be entitled to...

I'm not so sure, if the medical companies were to leave Galway the city would be severely damaged. It would survive, it survived the closure of DEC and the depradations of Cromwell, but it would be set back by decades.

One more pressing reason to focus on domestic export based industries I guess...

Civilian_Target wrote: »

I don't understand why you guys are so heavily anti-union.

I'm not a unionised worker, but I do contribute a small amount to a union at my workplace every year? Why? Because they provide a valuable service of reading the contracts that we sign-but-don't-really-read, of keeping up to date with pay agreements and promotions in the company, promoting useful employee benefits like childcare and a buy-and-sell board.

Most importantly, you hear about things that management otherwise may not tell you, like the failure of a 40 million euro project. The union made details of the failed project (like the real project code) available that might not have otherwise been known to workers.

In short - unions aren't all about strikes!

There are good reasons why they're heavily anti-unions. A lot of them are businessmen or entreprenuers. They see workers as a commodity or rescource to make money from. If their workers are organised it means they can't exploit them as easily. Which means they make less profit. They will argue that it's good for the country for workers to have no representation and be at the mercy of employers. They will quote all sorts of surveys and economic papers to support their view that workers are over paid and under productive and blame this on Unions. It galls them no end that the public sector is highly unionised. They will rant and rave about how inieficent and overpaid the PS are because of this. Some of them are actually sincere and believe a lot of what they say. They equate what's good for them as being good for the country as a whole. So anything that prevents them exploiting their human resourses to the fullest extent must be bad. The irony is, because of their attitude there will always be a need for workers to organise themselves in order to protect their pay and working conditions and Unions will always be with us.