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Part-time staff 'can't afford' to work more hours

  • 27-09-2010 10:18AM
    #1
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭


    This article tallies with the known high welfare rates here especially when you have kids.
    I don't blame them to be honest, how on earth would they afford the high rents(900+ in Dublin corpo area for a lone parent) on a single wage if they worked more hours? (unless they were on high wages in these jobs which is a no-no)

    Another incentive to significantly reduce Rent Allowance so these workers would be worth their while working more hours.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/parttime-staff-cant-afford-to-work-more-hours-2353424.html
    indo wrote:
    Employers have slammed the Government over social welfare rules which mean that part-time workers are better off if they don't increase their working hours.

    They make more money by working only a three-day week and then making up the balance with social welfare payments.

    It means that the State is losing out on PAYE revenue, while at the same time paying out millions in social welfare.

    Marissa Carter, 27, is the founder of 'Carter Beauty' in Blackrock, Dublin. She set up business in 2007 and believes that neither employers nor staff are getting a good deal.

    She explained: "I began interviewing for two new full-time employees. I gathered from the women I interviewed that they could only work three days a week if they wished to retain their social welfare benefits, including lone-parent and rent allowance. If they work more than 20 hours, they risk losing all their benefits.

    But a 29-year-old worker who spoke to the Sunday Independent confirmed that she was better off part-time.

    She receives €221 through the lone-parent allowance and believes there is no incentive for her to work full-time. Taken together, her lone-parent and rent allowances are equivalent to a basic wage.

    "I can't work more than 20 hours a week and I have told my employer this as the rent will go up otherwise. There is no incentive for me to go back to working 40 hours a week, so what's the point?"

    Lara Casey of Lara Boutique in Dublin has seen how this dilemma affects retail outlets.

    "Many of their staff are restricted to working up to 20 hours a week, not 21 or 22, but 20. There is a cut-off point and they don't get the dole otherwise" she said.

    Another businesswoman told a similar story . She said many of her staff refused to work five minutes' overtime as they feared it would push them over the limit.

    "It's a huge bugbear of mine," she said. "My staff are all paid well above the minimum wage, but as they only work from 9am until 1pm each day, the amount of income supplement the Government gives them is more beneficial to them.

    "As they are working part-time, they don't have to pay tax, PRSI or an income levy. They are entitled to a medical card because their income is under a certain level; they get children's allowance, unmarried mothers' allowance and housing allowance. It is not to their benefit to work full-time."


«1

Comments

  • #2
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,231 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Something clearly wrong with a social welfare system that promotes the "It's not worth my while to work" line. Imagine people ever saying that in the 1980's? People would do literally any kind of work during that recession. Ireland needs to wake up.


  • #3
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    What is wrong is not so much the individual unemployment payment but all the additional benefits coming with it...

    Remove/reduce rent allowance, add in higher cost for medicard, review all additional grants etc. and esp. for any one who's been using them for 2/3 years and why there are not automatic downard adjustments on all payments (i.e. after 3 years you only get 50% benefit etc.).

    I'll put that up there before the "But think of the elderly/disabled/single mother/vulnerable" brigade come in to point out that lowering/removing benefits is impossible and as cruel as kicking kittens.


  • #4
    munstergirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭munstergirl


    The whole social welfare system is a mess, the way its going your better off not working, having kids and getting council house or rent allowance.

    Sunday independent also had man in kerry, living in his lovely detached house driving his 2010 van. But he has no money, he's living on social welfare.


  • #5
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Well I'm not sure why someone would apply for a full time role and then explain in the interview they only wanted part time hours.
    That's wasting everyones time,

    Realy is an excellent website
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie
    One-Parent Family Payment and work
    If you take up full time work you may be eligible for extra tax allowances under the Revenue Job Assist scheme.
    Revenue Job Assist, introduced in 1998, is an additional tax allowance for people in Ireland who have been unemployed for 12 months or more and who are now returning to employment. The scheme is an alternative to existing employment schemes, such as the Back to Work Enterprise Allowance. In other words, you cannot avail of both options. An extra tax allowance can be claimed for each qualifying child (see below). The tax allowance can be claimed for 3 tax years and may begin with either the tax year in which the employment commences or the following tax year.

    I'd never heard of this scheme before
    If the lady went back working full time she would get extra tax credits. If it's an incentive it's not working, she didn't think it was enough


  • #6
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    munstergirl wrote: »
    The whole social welfare system is a mess, the way its going your better off not working, having kids and getting council house or rent allowance.

    Sunday independent also had man in kerry, living in his lovely detached house driving his 2010 van. But he has no money, he's living on social welfare.
    It certainly seems like for a certain class of individuals, having a bunch of kids and no job is certainly working out for them financially.


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  • #7
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,231 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The myriad of "entitlements" should not be so high that we need to "entice" people back to work. The dole should be a subsistence existance, nothing more. That is what it is over the border or in Germany. The government here has upped "dole" by €5 a month to a whopping €364! If you refuse to take a job offer after a set time they reduce this by 30%!! Totally crazy in Ireland in comparison, just crazy.


  • #8
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Hmmm

    On the other hand, isn't it better to have lone parents working part time and getting some benefits than for them not to be working at all and getting full benefits?

    IMO any changes here would be to encourage lone parents to work some part time hours and enforce issues as to whether they actually are lone parents or not (i.e. if their partner lives with them for part of the week or is staying close by to get the benefits, they should be cut off and prosecuted).

    Thus it would ensure that people claiming lone parents allowance 1) are genuine lone parents, 2) putting a bit of work in and 3) not milking the system.

    Rent allowance should also be dropped due to the declining market, and they could also reduce the payment slightly and increase the number of hours that can be worked e.g. reduce it to 190 and let them work 25 hours per week etc.


  • #9
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    If the lady went back working full time she would get extra tax credits. If it's an incentive it's not working, she didn't think it was enough

    You'd want a ginormous amount of tax credits to make it worthwhile. Remember, some of these jobs would pay less than 30k pa full time. Rent cost of about 900quid per month is approaching half their take home pay if they opted for full time work.

    And then who will mind the kid? If they don't have a granny, you can guess the creche costs which would leave them with nothing in net pay!

    Accommodation costs aka rent is the primary problem here, its the biggest chunk of an expense.


  • #10
    changes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    I'm glad to see this topic getting some attention. For the last 2 years on here it was all public servants pay.

    22 billion was spent on social welfare last year. The system has always been a farce its just that now we are in resession and with 450,000 people out of work its becoming clear how bad things are.

    Social welfare needs to be cut for everyone so that nobody can be better off not working than working and there is a real incentive to get a job.


  • #11
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Good grief! people are using two Independent stories (papers who don't have an axe to grind, oh no) to have a moan about people on SW and propose their own swinging cuts. I await for people to arrive on this thread with their own anecdotes about welfare sponger x,y & z they know or have heard of.

    Yer having a laugh, the problem isn't feckless people not wanting to work, it's our economy is fecked and 450k are on the dole and people emigrating.

    Go ahead, suggest RA should be cut, who loses out then? you realise it's the landlords who'll lose out then as well as the tenants. Depress our economy more.

    Increase medical card costs, let people get more sick.

    Slash LPA, but keep child benefit subsidies to the middle classes, what a joke.

    Ironically i bet it'll be the same people who'll moan about the minimum wage and the like.

    We need to accept that going on extensive welfare cutting programmes, cutting public service pay & reducing government spending is all well and good, it'll satisfy the petty ideologues, the begrudgers down the pub and the Indo ownership, but it's jobs that are needed, and to do that a change of Government is needed.

    People are great in identifying what they they think should be cut, but i've yet to hear any concrete proposals for reducing our unemployment rate, just whinging about people, who through no fault of their own find themselves with two options: go on the dole or emigrate.


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  • #12
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    IMO any changes here would be to encourage lone parents to work some part time hours and enforce issues as to whether they actually are lone parents or not (i.e. if their partner lives with them for part of the week or is staying close by to get the benefits, they should be cut off and prosecuted).

    Thus it would ensure that people claiming lone parents allowance 1) are genuine lone parents, 2) putting a bit of work in and 3) not milking the system.

    Crikey Johnnyskeleton,you appear to be an Elephant-in-the-room hunter of some note ! ;)

    If and I stress IF,the DSP,the HSA and the myriad Local Authorities possessed a hymn-sheet written in the same language,and if....IF,mind you,their employees were able to actually interface with each other then we would see one truly massive potential for Social disorder.

    Our spineless and essentially corrupt leadership are many things,but suicidal is not one of them.


    Gurramok posted....
    And then who will mind the kid? If they don't have a granny, you can guess the creche costs which would leave them with nothing in net pay!

    Ah the great unanswered question,repeated the lenghth and breath of the Country....."What about my Children....who`ll look after them ?"....

    A question perhaps best asked,or at least considered,before embarking on the procreation process.....:D :D:D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #13
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Good grief! people are using two Independent stories (papers who don't have an axe to grind, oh no) to have a moan about people on SW and propose their own swinging cuts. I await for people to arrive on this thread with their own anecdotes about welfare sponger x,y & z they know or have heard of.

    Yer having a laugh, the problem isn't feckless people not wanting to work, it's our economy is fecked and 450k are on the dole and people emigrating.

    Costs have to be cut in areas where there is no incentive to work.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Go ahead, suggest RA should be cut, who loses out then? you realise it's the landlords who'll lose out then as well as the tenants. Depress our economy more.

    Oh, those poor poor landlords. Tenants won't lose out. How does less money going to private landlords depress the economy?:rolleyes:
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Increase medical card costs, let people get more sick.

    Slash LPA, but keep child benefit subsidies to the middle classes, what a joke.

    Ironically i bet it'll be the same people who'll moan about the minimum wage and the like.

    We need to accept that going on extensive welfare cutting programmes, cutting public service pay & reducing government spending is all well and good, it'll satisfy the petty ideologues, the begrudgers down the pub and the Indo ownership, but it's jobs that are needed, and to do that a change of Government is needed.

    People are great in identifying what they they think should be cut, but i've yet to hear any concrete proposals for reducing our unemployment rate, just whinging about people, who through no fault of their own find themselves with two options: go on the dole or emigrate.

    You're ranting here. Even if there is full employment, these people will not increase their working hours as benefits are too high.

    Maybe you are landlord and is disturbed by a cut in Rental Supplement?


  • #14
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    AlekSmart wrote: »

    A question perhaps best asked,or at least considered,before embarking on the procreation process.....:D :D:D

    There are people on lone parents allowance who are widows and widowers, it happens thousands of people a year who are suddenly left alone with a family

    Sure you are a professional driver, more experience of witnessing accidents then most of us here.

    Lone parents allowance is there to support people like this
    It's the fraudsters who ruin it for the deserving cases :(


  • #15
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    gurramok wrote: »
    Costs have to be cut in areas where there is no incentive to work.

    What areas are these then? enlighten me.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Oh, those poor poor landlords. Tenants won't lose out. How does less money going to private landlords depress the economy?:rolleyes:

    Duh! RA is paid to a lot of landlords, cut it or get rid of it then you are depressing the rentals market even more. Good for people like me who'll get cheaper rent, bad for landlords and tenants reliant on RA.

    Whether we like or not a lot of LLs are struggling as it is, this just increases their woes. Let's push more people into financial trouble, great idea!.

    gurramok wrote: »
    You're ranting here. Even if there is full employment, these people will not increase their working hours as benefits are too high.

    If i'm ranting then you're stereotyping, "these people" are a construct in your petty mind. If you'd like i can introduce you to people i know who are on P/T work and in recipient of dole, they are not on the dole for the laugh and good times, they are on the dole because the employer has cut their hours to a bare minimum because, guess what!, the economy is going down the drain.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Maybe you are landlord and is disturbed by a cut in Rental Supplement?

    Maybe you're just a begrudger who thinks everyone's on a free meal ticket. Word to the wise, stop relying on the Indo for your info. It's a load of crap.


  • #16
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    There's an issue with the single parent payments thats a bit of conundrum, by paying significant additional benefits to single parents (and assess it as such that if the father is found to be present these payments are removed) do you encourage single parent families (most often single mothers) which may result to further costs down the line.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCR/is_4_35/ai_84017196/

    In reference to the article in the Sindo.
    I don't really understand the last business womans point, she has staff working 9-1 eg 4 hours a day, on my understanding you could only claim part time dole if working under 3 days a week (sunday excluded), therefore only 12 hours work a week, leaving scope for 8 hours of overtime. I also thought it was interesting that they interviewed 3 "business woman" from the southside beauty business (wonder if there's any family relations :confused: )

    On a different note I would have thought it was in business advantages to have these payments, I know of experienced people that are willing to take up part time contracts rather than full time because of these payments where as they would not be consider on the pro rata rates offered by the businesses.

    ps not sure if thats good for the country but its definitly good for the business.


  • #17
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    3 couples in our village, all on the dole, f##k off to Spain for a 2 week holiday. 1 of these couples has a moritorium on the mortage, the other 2 live in council houses

    Now tell me there isn't a social welfare problem in Ireland


  • #18
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    What areas are these then? enlighten me.

    Err, the highlight of Rent Supplement. The govt control 50% of the private rental market, it costs about 500m quid.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Duh! RA is paid to a lot of landlords, cut it or get rid of it then you are depressing the rentals market even more. Good for people like me who'll get cheaper rent, bad for landlords and tenants reliant on RA.

    Whether we like or not a lot of LLs are struggling as it is, this just increases their woes. Let's push more people into financial trouble, great idea!.

    So what if they are struggling? Property is an investment where investments may go up or down. Many LL's do not have big mortgages, they bought prudently.

    Depressing the rental market is a good thing, it helps reduce our cost base.

    Exactly how do high rents benefit you who is allegedly a renter? This i'd love to hear.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    If i'm ranting then you're stereotyping, "these people" are a construct in your petty mind. If you'd like i can introduce you to people i know who are on P/T work and in recipient of dole, they are not on the dole for the laugh and good times, they are on the dole because the employer has cut their hours to a bare minimum because, guess what!, the economy is going down the drain.

    Yes, and if they wanted more hours work they cannot take them as they would be better off on welfare.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Maybe you're just a begrudger who thinks everyone's on a free meal ticket. Word to the wise, stop relying on the Indo for your info. It's a load of crap.

    Eh, the sums they get is not. So anyone who opposes a PAYE worker giving out about the ludricous benefits a section of welfare recipients get is a begrudger, absolute genius of an argument.

    Do the maths yourself. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66188084&postcount=337


  • #19
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    gurramok wrote: »
    Err, the highlight of Rent Supplement. The govt control 50% of the private rental market, it costs about 500m quid.

    So whad do you propose? cut RA, let the economy go to **** for another year, then cut it again? and again, do you have anything other then proposals to cut welfare? maybe the Indo has another article you can qoute that suggests how we end our chronic unemployment & emigration rates?
    gurramok wrote: »
    So what if they are struggling? Property is an investment where investments may go up or down. Many LL's do not have big mortgages, they bought prudently.

    Fine, let LLs go to the wall, serves them right says you.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Exactly how do high rents benefit you who is allegedly a renter? This i'd love to hear.

    Did i say high rents benefit me? no, stop making things up.


    gurramok wrote: »
    Yes, and if they wanted more hours work they cannot take them as they would be better off on welfare.

    Stupid point to make tbh. The business isn't there, more likely that the business will go under and they'll have to go on the dole (or leave Ireland) the way things are going. Taking money out of the economy by cutting welfare to ribbons like you propose will only hasten this process. People in recipient of dole want to work too y'know? (or possibly don't if you just read the indo all the time:rolleyes:).

    gurramok wrote: »
    Eh, the sums they get is not. So anyone who opposes a PAYE worker giving out about the ludricous benefits a section of welfare recipients get is a begrudger, absolute genius of an argument.

    I replied to your silly strawman - insinuating i'm a landlord - with another bout of whataboutarray - you're a begrudger. Stop posting these bouts of stupidity when replying to my posts and i won't call you a begrudger.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Do the maths yourself. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66188084&postcount=337

    No you do some maths, cut x amount out of the economy by slashing welfare rates and you will send more people onto the dole and/or out of the country. This isn't rocket science ffs.


  • #20
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Good grief! people are using two Independent stories (papers who don't have an axe to grind, oh no) to have a moan about people on SW and propose their own swinging cuts. I await for people to arrive on this thread with their own anecdotes about welfare sponger x,y & z they know or have heard of.
    Tipp Man wrote: »
    3 couples in our village, all on the dole, f##k off to Spain for a 2 week holiday. 1 of these couples has a moritorium on the mortage, the other 2 live in council houses

    Now tell me there isn't a social welfare problem in Ireland


    See what i mean rolleyes.gif, anecdotes & indo articles, a great way to discuss SW policy.


  • #21
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    See what i mean rolleyes.gif, anecdotes & indo articles, a great way to discuss SW policy.

    You can call it an ancedote if you want but it is a FACT


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  • #22
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    You can call it an ancedote if you want but it is a FACT

    Riiigghhht, so do you have intimate knowledge then of these couples personal finances then? you know how much they have in the bank, who might give them money or indeed whether they work or not in the black economy as examples.

    I'm going to reckon you don't, these kind of "FACTS" might go down well when you're perched on your highhorse/barstool. But certainly not conducive to any serious discussion when it comes to discussing SW policy.


  • #23
    changes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Riiigghhht, so do you have intimate knowledge then of these couples personal finances then? you know how much they have in the bank, who might give them money or indeed whether they work or not in the black economy as examples.

    I'm going to reckon you don't, these kind of "FACTS" might go down well when you're perched on your highhorse/barstool. But certainly not conducive to any serious discussion when it comes to discussing SW policy.

    There are plenty of examples of this sort or thing in every village, town and city in ireland. They can't all be wrong. I happen to know of a few also who manage their yearly and somethies twice yearly holiday thanks to the dole and the black economy.


  • #24
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    So whad do you propose? cut RA, let the economy go to **** for another year, then cut it again? and again, do you have anything other then proposals to cut welfare? maybe the Indo has another article you can qoute that suggests how we end our chronic unemployment & emigration rates?

    How does cutting RA let the let the economy go to **** for another year? A part of the reason the economy is in the crapper is due to high property prices and rents both commercial and residential.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Fine, let LLs go to the wall, serves them right says you.

    Some will, so what?
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Did i say high rents benefit me? no, stop making things up.

    You said "Good for people like me who'll get cheaper rent, bad for landlords and tenants reliant on RA.".

    Thats defending high rents for LL's.

    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Stupid point to make tbh. The business isn't there, more likely that the business will go under and they'll have to go on the dole (or leave Ireland) the way things are going. Taking money out of the economy by cutting welfare to ribbons like you propose will only hasten this process. People in recipient of dole want to work too y'know? (or possibly don't if you just read the indo all the time:rolleyes:).

    Maybe I should label you as a reader of the Beijing Times? How does that feel like to be labelled?

    If they want to work more hours, they can't. Its been explained to you why. Not all jobs are cutting hours, its silly saying 100% are.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    I replied to your silly strawman - insinuating i'm a landlord - with another bout of whataboutarray - you're a begrudger. Stop posting these bouts of stupidity when replying to my posts and i won't call you a begrudger.

    No need to call me names like 'begrudger'. You are defending landlords who are milking the state to the hilt and I'm criticising the injustice to workers. Big difference.
    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    No you do some maths, cut x amount out of the economy by slashing welfare rates and you will send more people onto the dole and/or out of the country. This isn't rocket science ffs.

    Oh boy, these parents on which the topic is about get feck all dole. They get LPA, RS & child benefits are their primary means of income.


  • #25
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    Riiigghhht, so do you have intimate knowledge then of these couples personal finances then? you know how much they have in the bank, who might give them money or indeed whether they work or not in the black economy as examples.

    I'm going to reckon you don't, these kind of "FACTS" might go down well when you're perched on your highhorse/barstool. But certainly not conducive to any serious discussion when it comes to discussing SW policy.

    Not intimate knowledge but I do know that 1 of the couples owes money to his builders for his house AND he has not paid his mortage in several months and has moritorium. That is for definite

    Amazing what you can do when you want to spend money in 1 area but not in another


  • #26
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    No you do some maths, cut x amount out of the economy by slashing welfare rates and you will send more people onto the dole and/or out of the country. This isn't rocket science ffs.

    But selling Irish bonds at extortionately high rates (over 6%) in order to fund the day to day running is? The way I see it, there are two choices:

    1) Slash everything in order to try balance to books which may eventually give us a chance to clear our debt

    2) Do nothing and maintain the current level of spending which lets be honest is astronomical and is likely never to be repaid. Only in this case everyone suffers.


  • #27
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Or point 3
    Increase taxes significantly (and a bit of 1 and 2)


  • #28
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Or point 3
    Increase taxes significantly (and a bit of 1 and 2)

    Increase taxes so that the public sector and the social welfare sector can continue with their cushy lifestyles while the rest of us mugs are working our asses off to pay for it

    Thats social equality for ya


  • #29
    Scarab80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    No you do some maths, cut x amount out of the economy by slashing welfare rates and you will send more people onto the dole and/or out of the country. This isn't rocket science ffs.

    This is the usual argument used by the unions, they twist keynesian economics into a belief that it supports high public sector pay and welfare rates, it does not.

    The more you spend on a PS worker, the less productive they are, the same applies to welfare as they are not productive at all.

    Government spending in a recession should be focused on areas which are productive and reduce unemployment such as infrastructure projects or the SEAI grant system, which I think is a very good use of public money.

    Maintaining high wages and welfare is counter productive.


  • #30
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Lone parents allowance is there to support people like this
    It's the fraudsters who ruin it for the deserving cases

    Spot-On feelingstressed.

    Just as with many other Social Allowances,the State slackened off the reins to a massive degree with the,not surprising,result that folks flocked to a good thing.

    The issues are not with widowed parents or those genuine people left in the lurch,but the significant numbers of claimaints who are dei-facto families with seperate income streams in many cases.

    From what we can now glean the various embargo`s now ensure that the DSP can only give the most cursory glance at a well prepared application,especially if it`s supported by documentation such as a Doctors Letter or similar.

    For many applicants these tricks-of-the-trade will be supplied by siblings who have moved on and up the benefit ladder.

    Tipp Man asked .....
    Now tell me there isn't a social welfare problem in Ireland

    Of course there`s no Social Welfare problem in Ireland....it`s just Tipperary that`s different !! ;););)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #31
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Or point 3
    Increase taxes significantly (and a bit of 1 and 2)

    Frankly you have to be very wary of increasing taxes. Increasing taxes on tradesmen might force them more into the black economy, thus having the opposite effect to the one intended.

    In this case it ends up being the PAYE workers who end up being screwed. Considering in Google Dublin for example, 75% of the workers there are non Irish, I hardly think we want to force them out of the country through higher taxation. Especially when we are so heavily reliant on them.

    We certainly don't want to force those who can take their skills elsewhere as the tax take will only be reduced further.


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