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Irish borrowing rates climb to new euro-era high

  • 23-09-2010 03:15PM
    #1
    rumour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭


    Joyiously this week I thought our problems were over, we had loan sharks queing up to lend us money at a measily 6~%....isn't that great, job done. We can simply just not talk about when it needs to be paid back. Problem solved!!!

    Now, I've just read this;

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5A01HJHTO0CXly3U0Z9daWdQGvgD9IDLE580

    Why do they insist on talking about it, how will the problem ever go away?

    I'm off to talk to my Union about this:confused:


«134567

Comments

  • #2
    wobbles-grogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭wobbles-grogan


    Woot woot!

    Seriously tho, this is a joke. How could they get so high? When will this end? Not soon, i imagine.


  • #3
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭liammur


    rumour wrote: »
    Joyiously this week I thought our problems were over, we had lone sharks queing up to lend us money at a measily 6~%....isn't that great, job done. We can simply just not talk about when it needs to be paid back. Problem solved!!!

    Now, I've just read this;

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5A01HJHTO0CXly3U0Z9daWdQGvgD9IDLE580

    Why do they insist on talking about it, how will the problem ever go away?

    I'm off to talk to my Union about this:confused:

    How on earth could you have assumed our problems were over? They are just starting.


  • #4
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    rumour wrote: »
    Joyiously this week I thought our problems were over, we had loan sharks queing up to lend us money at a measily 6~%....isn't that great, job done. We can simply just not talk about when it needs to be paid back. Problem solved!!!

    Now, I've just read this;

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5A01HJHTO0CXly3U0Z9daWdQGvgD9IDLE580

    Why do they insist on talking about it, how will the problem ever go away?

    Not talking about the elephant in the room that was the housing bubble is what got us into this mess in the first place. How do you think ignoring the problems will make them go away now?


  • #5
    rumour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭rumour


    liammur wrote: »
    How on earth could you have assumed our problems were over? They are just starting.

    Really:eek: Here was I thinking loan sharks being the jolly cahps that they are will just keep giving us money forever.

    Seriously it's worse than just starting, things are fubar, we are so far down the path that any sensible country or even person would avoid and yet when listening to the media this week you would have thought 'everythings grand'.

    FUBAR


  • #6
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭liammur


    rumour wrote: »
    Really:eek: Here was I thinking loan sharks being the jolly cahps that they are will just keep giving us money forever.

    Seriously it's worse than just starting, things are fubar, we are so far down the path that any sensible country or even person would avoid and yet when listening to the media this week you would have thought 'everythings grand'.

    FUBAR

    Our financial shares are in freefall as we speak. Foreign investors have no confidence in the country. The worst is yet to come imo.


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  • #7
    MrDarcy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭MrDarcy


    166527317.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1285258341&Signature=42v5oNp9q1okcgwiP7EpbSp67G4%3D


  • #8
    wobbles-grogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭wobbles-grogan


    rumour wrote: »
    Really:eek: Here was I thinking loan sharks being the jolly cahps that they are will just keep giving us money forever.

    Seriously it's worse than just starting, things are fubar, we are so far down the path that any sensible country or even person would avoid and yet when listening to the media this week you would have thought 'everythings grand'.

    FUBAR

    Really? Any sensible person would avoid? Then why is a whole load of people in this country in huge negative equity? Why didn't anyone listen to those economists back in 2006-7-8 when they were saying that "this is all going to end, be careful".

    Oh yeah, "sensible". That's right....


  • #9
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    as far as i can see the concerns and volatility of these rates will continue until 2 things happen, govt gives a final price on Anglo (hope you're enjoying your newfound wealth Mrs. Seanie) and the budget is announced with at least the mooted 3 billion in cuts.


  • #10
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭liammur


    bamboozle wrote: »
    as far as i can see the concerns and volatility of these rates will continue until 2 things happen, govt gives a final price on Anglo (hope you're enjoying your newfound wealth Mrs. Seanie) and the budget is announced with at least the mooted 3 billion in cuts.

    The problem is far more serious than that i'm afraid. Cuts have to be well above 3bn and silly projects like metros need to be axed, along with pay cuts, redundancies, etc, etc.


  • #11
    waitingforBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 173 ✭✭waitingforBB


    Croke park agreement needs to be reviewed. Clause referencing unforseen budgetary deterioration has to be relied upon. We're in the sh*t and sorry PS, but Croke Park agreement should never have happened. Now that it has at least there is a viable exit clause.


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  • #12
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    waitingforBB wrote: »
    Croke park agreement needs to be reviewed. Clause referencing unforseen budgetary deterioration has to be relied upon. We're in the sh*t and sorry PS, but Croke Park agreement should never have happened. Now that it has at least there is a viable exit clause.


    The croke park deal never should have been entered into at all and now that it seems very possible it will be thrown away, the whole thing just seems like a total waste of time. Larger Pay cuts should have been made and strikes tolerated. The government could have solved large scale industrial unrest by taking the following steps:

    1. PS workers will not be paid whilst on strike.
    2. If any sector of the PS strikes, pay should be stopped for ALL public servants until the offending parties return to work.
    3. Work to Rule should be regarded as striking in the fullest sense of the term.

    I don't like to bash PS workers but the state does need to discipline its staff because some public servants behave like spoilt children.


  • #13
    blue_steel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 408 ✭✭blue_steel


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    The croke park deal never should have been entered into at all and now that it seems very possible it will be thrown away, the whole thing just seems like a total waste of time. Pay cuts should have been made and strikes tolerated.


    What planet are you on? Paycuts were made! 15% for most ps workers.
    More than anywhere else on the planet. Try taking a paycut of that magnitude when you are a grownup (ie have kids, a mortgage and bills).
    I don't like to bash PS workers but

    LOL :) You are like one of those football managers who say "I don't want to blame the ref but..."


  • #14
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    blue_steel wrote: »
    What planet are you on? Paycuts were made! 15% for most ps workers.
    More than anywhere else on the planet. Try taking a paycut of that magnitude when you are a grownup (ie have kids, a mortgage and bills).



    LOL :) You are like one of those football managers who say "I don't want to blame the ref but..."


    I'm on the same cash strapped little island as you. My post wasn't clear, I should have said "further cuts" whilst I actually implied no cuts were made. It's cleared up so I apologise.

    And no, I'm not a foot ball fan who blames the ref for a teams mistakes but I am a realist who believes that paying public servants with money we don't really have isn't going to work. Alot of my family are civil servants, my own parents are too and I have been one myself in the past but that doesn't change the fact that we don't have the money to pay wages at 2004 levels (which is where, I understand, PS wages are right now).

    Thus, we need to roll back wage costs to a level we CAN afford and if that means my mother's pay must take a 30% cut then that must happen.


  • #15
    KindOfIrish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭KindOfIrish


    wobbles-grogan wrote: »
    Then why is a whole load of people in this country in huge negative equity
    Education is cr..p in this country. Majority people do not know what they are doing. Only idiots can think that a sh..t built house can cost 350000euro. There is no house in this country which cost more than 100,000 euro. But greedy capitalists will do anything to keep things as they are.


  • #16
    MrDarcy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭MrDarcy


    There's a lot of Twittering going on today on this subject, David Mc Williams has just tweeted that the 10 year bond rate today is 6.9% and if it goes above 7% it's basically game over for Ireland...


  • #17
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    MrDarcy wrote: »
    There's a lot of Twittering going on today on this subject, David Mc Williams has just tweeted that the 10 year bond rate today is 6.9% and if it goes above 7% it's basically game over for Ireland...

    How? Has he plucked the number out of thin air?


  • #18
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    MrDarcy wrote: »
    There's a lot of Twittering going on today on this subject, David Mc Williams has just tweeted that the 10 year bond rate today is 6.9% and if it goes above 7% it's basically game over for Ireland...

    Worrying :(
    davidmcw: Irish bond yields touching 7%, 6.99% actually. Once they break 7, its curtains

    davidmcw: means the bond market will shut to Ireland in coming days. we will go to European Bailout fund but wait the for EU's stringent conditions!

    davidmcw: EU's conditions for money could be a pale shadow of IMF. Yet, also time for Germany to air grievances about our corporate tax rate? Maybe?


  • #19
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Confab wrote: »
    How? Has he plucked the number out of thin air?

    RTE News at One just said they touched 6.8% this morning.

    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0928/anglo.html
    The premium demanded by investors to lend to Ireland over Germany has narrowed slightly after reports that the European Central Bank has been buying Irish Government bonds in the market.

    Bond markets remain on edge ahead of the Government's expected announcement of the final cost of bailing out Anglo Irish Bank.

    The interest rate demanded by investors to lend money to Ireland for 10 years was just under 7% by lunchtime. The gap, or spread, between this rate and the equivalent German rate dropped to 4.7 percentage points from a euro lifetime high of 4.75 points earlier in the day. The cost of borrowing for Portugal also surged this morning.


  • #20
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    irishconvert wrote: »
    RTE News at One just said they touched 6.8% this morning.

    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0928/anglo.html

    yep :(


  • #21
    rumour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭rumour


    irishconvert wrote: »
    RTE News at One just said they touched 6.8% this morning.

    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0928/anglo.html

    http://nbyslog.blogspot.com/2010/09/eu-meltdown-exclusive-ireland-is.html

    Info posted by a Hoplite in Irish Times this morning. This is the first time we start seeing the unimaginable being mentioned publically abroad. Time s up.

    Hard times ahead, anyone with savings should be careful the government will probably try and have a share of these in the budget.


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  • #22
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I mean what happens at 7%? I know we're way above the rate we'd get from the EU/IMF funds, but is this really that bad?

    http://nbyslog.blogspot.com/2010/09/...reland-is.html

    That blog is the usual UK anti-EU crap. At least they can use quantitative easing. Not that it worked.


  • #23
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Confab wrote: »
    I mean what happens at 7%? I know we're way above the rate we'd get from the EU/IMF funds, but is this really that bad?

    I don't fully understand but from what I can gather it would be less expensive to take a bail out from Europe and IMF at this stage. However there would be very strict rules attached which would result in very severe cutbacks. Also our reputation would be in tatters.


  • #24
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    I remember reading somewhere that there was basically a 6% rule on sovereign debt - if the interest rates went over this point, it was pretty much game over and the IMF gets called in. Don't know why 7% is the new 6%, but regardless, the current situation is unsustainable. The government has got to get Anglo off the books.


  • #25
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I don't fully understand but from what I can gather it would be less expensive to take a bail out from Europe and IMF at this stage. However there would be very strict rules attached which would result in very severe cutbacks. Also our reputation would be in tatters.

    Isn't all the worry about the bond rate going to drive it higher still?


  • #26
    MrDarcy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭MrDarcy


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I don't fully understand but from what I can gather it would be less expensive to take a bail out from Europe and IMF at this stage. However there would be very strict rules attached which would result in very severe cutbacks. Also our reputation would be in tatters.

    The thing is, the cut backs need to be made! I see it posted on here regularly enough that Irish people are gloating at the worsening economic situation, almost wallowing in it, you'd have to ask why people are doing that???

    They are doing it because the private sector has already experienced default, look at all the businesses closing, behind every CRO number is a litany of people/employees who get shifted onto an immediate diet of poverty, 196 Euro a week, relationship problems that stem from all of this, huge depression, possible suicide, loss of hope and expectation, etc.

    Why should 500,000 people in the private sector, the hardest working people on this island, be exposed to this, while a whole congregation of people in the public sector get guaranteed jobs, a Croke Park deal that further enforces the notion of selfish entitlement and protectionism, with all the antiquated work practices carefully allowed to stay in place for fear that we might upset someone???

    We need redundancies in the public sector and we need a 30% salary "haircut" for those who get to keep their jobs...


  • #27
    Scarab80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    Confab wrote: »
    I mean what happens at 7%? I know we're way above the rate we'd get from the EU/IMF funds, but is this really that bad?

    http://nbyslog.blogspot.com/2010/09/...reland-is.html

    That blog is the usual UK anti-EU crap. At least they can use quantitative easing. Not that it worked.

    7% is used because that is the rate at which Greece withdrew from the markets.


  • #28
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    MrDarcy wrote: »
    The thing is, the cut backs need to be made! I see it posted on here regularly enough that Irish people are gloating at the worsening economic situation, almost wallowing in it, you'd have to ask why people are doing that???

    They are doing it because the private sector has already experienced default, look at all the businesses closing, behind every CRO number is a litany of people/employees who get shifted onto an immediate diet of poverty, 196 Euro a week, relationship problems that stem from all of this, huge depression, possible suicide, loss of hope and expectation, etc.

    Why should 500,000 people in the private sector, the hardest working people on this island, be exposed to this, while a whole congregation of people in the public sector get guaranteed jobs, a Croke Park deal that further enforces the notion of selfish entitlement and protectionism, with all the antiquated work practices carefully allowed to stay in place for fear that we might upset someone???

    We need redundancies in the public sector and we need a 30% salary "haircut" for those who get to keep their jobs...

    Fine, yes, but that won't stop us defaulting. Articles popping up all over the world in the last hour about Ireland's bond rates.

    Shit.


  • #29
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Confab wrote: »
    Isn't all the worry about the bond rate going to drive it higher still?

    No, it's the international market's concern about our finances which drives it higher. The more they think we do not have the ability to pay our debts the higher the rate goes.


  • #30
    GSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,377 ✭✭✭GSF


    Confab wrote: »
    That blog is the usual UK anti-EU crap. At least they can use quantitative easing. Not that it worked.
    The cost of UK borrowing at 3% would suggest that perhaps it did work.


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  • #31
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    RTÉ seem to be almost reporting this in a blasé fashion. The top story on their website is "Taoiseach Brian Cowen has launched a five-year overseas investment plan aimed at generating up to 300,000 jobs". Perhaps they are trying not to panic everyone. Does anyone else have a deep feeling of dread?


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