Fidel Castro admits Cuban communism doesn't work anymore

mike65 · 09-09-2010 05:27PM #1

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An almost off the cuff remark by the one time scourge of the USA but not one I was expecting. I guess when you are near the end and no longer in power one has the latitude to speak freely.

No doubt under Raul there will be a push to open Cuba up and get in the investment the country desperately needs which in turn should force Washington DC to get real. Cuba is no more a threat than I am.

Wolfe Tone · 09-09-2010 05:37PM

Communism in one country never does.

ei.sdraob · 09-09-2010 05:40PM

It must be a cold day in hell :P

Sergeant · 09-09-2010 05:41PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Communism in one country never does.

Has there been any examples where it worked with more than one country?

Wolfe Tone · 09-09-2010 05:44PM

Sergeant wrote: »

Has there been any examples where it worked with more than one country?

I meant never will.

karma_ · 09-09-2010 05:45PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I meant never will.

It's actually never been tried.

Wolfe Tone · 09-09-2010 05:47PM

karma_ wrote: »

It's actually never been tried.

Pure communism? Never got past the socialist stage has it?

Permabear · 09-09-2010 05:47PM

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karma_ · 09-09-2010 05:51PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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If only the US hadn't sanctioned them they need not have had to.

evercloserunion · 09-09-2010 05:55PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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You really think that had it not been for Castro the people of Cuba would have lived long affluent lives? Just like the rest of South America yeah?

If the right gave two sh*ts about the Cuban people they would've opposed the US embargo.

Permabear · 09-09-2010 05:57PM

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karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:04PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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Why then were they not given a chance?

BlaasForRafa · 09-09-2010 06:13PM

mike65 wrote: »

article

An almost off the cuff remark by the one time scourge of the USA but not one I was expecting. I guess when you are near the end and no longer in power one has the latitude to speak freely.

No doubt under Raul there will be a push to open Cuba up and get in the investment the country desperately needs which in turn should force Washington DC to get real. Cuba is no more a threat than I am.

Castro also came to the defence of Israel which was a bit unexpected http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/08/fidel-castro-criticises-mahmoud-ahmedinejad

Sergeant · 09-09-2010 06:15PM

karma_ wrote: »

Why then were they not given a chance?

They were. For the past 48 years they have been the subject of an embargo from the United States. They are free to trade with almost every other country on earth. Since the massive flow of subsidies from the USSR dried up, the country has stagnated.

The country is ruled by a totalitarian elite. Human rights abuses are numerous. It is naive to blame all of the ills of the Cuban people on the USA. Blame the leadership who crush the rights of the Cuban people, blame a failed political system and ideology.

It ain't a small country putting it up to Uncle Sam, it is a dictatorship.

karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:16PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Castro also came to the defence of Israel which was a bit unexpected http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/08/fidel-castro-criticises-mahmoud-ahmedinejad

I don't see this is unexpected? Like I said in another post, Jewish people have long been entwined in Left-wing politics. Left-wing politics is at its roots is about equality and fairness for all.

Valmont · 09-09-2010 06:20PM

I wouldn't have said that Cuban communism has failed, it gives the impression that communism worked somewhere else. Oh wait, all of those other communist countries weren't 'proper' communist regimes because communism is awesome and...

Just thought I'd get that argument out of the way early.

karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:22PM

Sergeant wrote: »

They were. For the past 48 years they have been the subject of an embargo from the United States. They are free to trade with almost every other country on earth. Since the massive flow of subsidies from the USSR dried up, the country has stagnated.

The country is ruled by a totalitarian elite. Human rights abuses are numerous. It is naive to blame all of the ills of the Cuban people on the USA. Blame the leadership who crush the rights of the Cuban people, blame a failed political system and ideology.

It ain't a small country putting it up to Uncle Sam, it is a dictatorship.

What you actually mean is that it's a dictatorship that the US didn't approve of because of its paranoia of left-wing politics. The US only support right-wing dictators and have never shirked from overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing dictators instead when it suited them.

Valmont · 09-09-2010 06:23PM

karma_ wrote: »

Left-wing politics is at its roots is about equality and fairness for all.

Yum, that sounds all fluffy and equitable. Tell me, when fairness and equality have been achieved in this social democratic society, how do you decide who collects the bins?

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 06:24PM

karma_ wrote: »

If only the US hadn't sanctioned them they need not have had to.

If communism worked they wouldn't need the US, but I agree that the embargo is ridiculous as China is basically an ATM for the US and with their ties to Saudi Arabia they can stoop no lower.

Einhard · 09-09-2010 06:26PM

karma_ wrote: »

What you actually mean is that it's a dictatorship that the US didn't approve of because of its paranoia of left-wing politics. The US only support right-wing dictators and have never shirked from overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing dictators instead when it suited them.

But it's still a dictatorship. And not because of the US. As you admit. So what exactly is your point?

karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:27PM

Valmont wrote: »

Yum, that sounds all fluffy and equitable. Tell me, when fairness and equality have been achieved in this social democratic society, how do you decide who collects the bins?

Is that the best argument against left-wing policies there is?

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 06:28PM

karma_ wrote: »

Is that the best argument against left-wing policies there is?

I think Cuba is a good arguement against it though.

karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:29PM

Einhard wrote: »

But it's still a dictatorship. And not because of the US. As you admit. So what exactly is your point?

I would favour letting Cuba be the architect of it's own destiny. Should the Cuban people want change it is up to them to force that change, free from outside interference.

Einhard · 09-09-2010 06:31PM

karma_ wrote: »

Is that the best argument against left-wing policies there is?

It's not exactly a good argument, but then neither is blaming Cuban totalitarianism and economic malaise on the US. But better that then blaming the people who actually ran the place with an iron fist over the past few decades eh?

Einhard · 09-09-2010 06:32PM

karma_ wrote: »

I would favour letting Cuba be the architect of it's own destiny. Should the Cuban people want change it is up to them to force that change, free from outside interference.

Kind of hard to be the architect for anything really when you're arrested, imprisoned and maltreated for even picking up the tools of change.

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 06:34PM

karma_ wrote: »

I would favour letting Cuba be the architect of it's own destiny. Should the Cuban people want change it is up to them to force that change, free from outside interference.

But Castro and his brother are the architect!

karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:34PM

Einhard wrote: »

It's not exactly a good argument, but then neither is blaming Cuban totalitarianism and economic malaise on the US. But better that then blaming the people who actually ran the place with an iron fist over the past few decades eh?

Of course you can't place the blame entirely on the US sanctions, but being denied access to a powerful and rich trading partner that close cannot have helped. If teh US actually thought it would not work, why fear it? Why not let not just let it fail?

Einhard · 09-09-2010 06:38PM

karma_ wrote: »

Of course you can't place the blame entirely on the US sanctions, but being denied access to a powerful and rich trading partner that close cannot have helped. If teh US actually thought it would not work, why fear it? Why not let not just let it fail?

Well the US is free to impose anctions on whomever it wishes. You might legitimately disagree with the sanctions, but they really shouldn't be used to excuse dictatorship and tyranny, which seems to be a reflexive reaction of many left wingers. And I don't use that phrase in a pejorative manner.

karma_ · 09-09-2010 06:40PM

Einhard wrote: »

Well the US is free to impose anctions on whomever it wishes. You might legitimately disagree with the sanctions, but they really shouldn't be used to excuse dictatorship and tyranny, which seems to be a reflexive reaction of many left wingers. And I don't use that phrase in a pejorative manner.

Of course you are correct in that there is no excuse for tyranny, my real issue is with the US, not that they oppose tyranny, but they only oppose one kind of it.

fontanalis · 09-09-2010 06:43PM

karma_ wrote: »

Of course you are correct in that there is no excuse for tyranny, my real issue is with the US, not that they oppose tyranny, but they only oppose one kind of it.

Why don't you oppose both kinds. People who oppose regimes like Pinochet nearly always have some soft defense for Cuba.

Einhard · 09-09-2010 06:46PM

karma_ wrote: »

Of course you are correct in that there is no excuse for tyranny, my real issue is with the US, not that they oppose tyranny, but they only oppose one kind of it.

So in the face of actual tyranny in Cuba, with people detained, tortured and disappeared for speaking out against dictatorial rule, your real issue is with US hypocrisy. No offence, but this kinda sums up why I have little time for the Irish Left in general.

Fidel Castro admits Cuban communism doesn't work anymore

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