M3 Parkway rail to Docklands - Why ?

Oasis44 · 06-09-2010 08:20PM

Well well well - too good to be true is all I can say

Been waiting for months for this new station to open - closer to my home, free parking etc. €26.80 is what your man tried to charge me today for a weekly return ticket from m3 parkway to town. That compares with €19.30 for every other station on the line including Dunboyne - what a rip off. Now you could say that they have built in the parking into the price which would be sly in itself but here's the best bit - the 'free' parking in the m3 parkway is only for the first few months, "free parking initially" is the words on their literature.

So a few months from now you'll be paying €34.80 including parking Vs €27.30 for dunboyne including parking - the difference? One measly stop. This is on top of the trains only going on half hour intervals and getting dropped in no mans land every time aka docklands. Those VERY EMPTY CAR SPACES will be barron for some time to come I think.

BTW I refused to pay their 26.80 and went down to clonsilla where I can park for free in a mates house.

westtip · 07-09-2010 09:29AM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Without being wishing to be unduly negative am I the only one here that thinks this new service is shaping up to be an utter fiasco?

JD now here is an interesting one - I have jusst stumbled into this thread, and although I live in sligo - and I am not prime target market for using Docklands on a regular basis - if I knew it existed as I go to dublin 2 or 3 times a month at most (less so with the recession) I might work out if it would do me any good. I don't think I can recall one item on TV about Docklands line, one item in the papers or magasines, and certainly have never picked up a "tube map" of dublin (ie the iconic tube style map) that shows all the suburban lines, Luas lines and all the stations and possibly some of the primary bus routes in a schematic fashion that could become imprinted on our psyche. It just seems to me that absolutely no thought goes into the communication of our transport into out of and around our capital city actually exists. Am I wrong? or am I just not loooking in the right places.

Judgement Day · 07-09-2010 10:02AM

I visit Dublin on a fairly regular basis and have never seen any map or other useful information relating to the Docklands line - still haven't been down there yet but I'm sure I will be pleasantly surprised when I do. :rolleyes:

I was thinking the other day, why is it that the Docklands line or the single line diverging from it and crossing to Connolly could not instead go underground and terminate under Connolly. This would have the effect of freeing up suburban platform space which is at such a premium. By reversing the layout at Glasnevin Junction services from Heuston and the Kildare line could also run into Connolly underground. If further space needs freeing up in Connolly the mainline from Belfast could be moved slightly eastwards to serve new platforms where the carriage maintenance plant is at Connolly. Of course I'm not an engineer but I do have some practical experience of squeezing track layouts into tight spaces. I think the answer to my question is that CIE/IE engineers, in common with most in their profession, like the sexy, expensive project like the Inter-connector (of course paid for by somebody else) and if they had to pay for it themselves might examine less expensive but more practical options. Sorry for wandering off topic. I await all the expert opinion to tell me why it wouldn't be feasible. As I say, I'm no engineer so there are probably a myriad of reasons why such a plan is impractical.

ongarboy · 07-09-2010 01:44PM

TheChrisD wrote: »

Am quite annoyed at the need to have to change trains at Clonsilla to get to Drumcondra, since the vast majority of my journeys in the near future are up to DCU.

I also hope that the Dunboyne station is attended for most of the day as well, as otherwise I can't get my free travel pass ticket, similar to what happened to me at Coolmine station at about 9.30 in the morning a few months back.

While I haven't yet been on the new train line, I wonder how (if at all) it's affecting how busy the 70 service usually is in the evenings.

But surely having a service that involves one train change to get to your destination is better than having no service at all which is what Dunboyne had up to last week (assuming Dunboyne is your starting point). Most commuters in other international city train networks have to make several train changes to get to their end destination (the Tube in London as an example). Although if you are having to wait more than 10 minutes at Clonsilla for a connecting train (as it appears some of the evening/weekend services are scheduled that way), then I agree that is a nuisance.

TheChrisD · 07-09-2010 02:49PM

ongarboy wrote: »

But surely having a service that involves one train change to get to your destination is better than having no service at all which is what Dunboyne had up to last week (assuming Dunboyne is your starting point).

Depending on the time of the train and if it's one of those ones where a massive wait is required at Clonsilla, I'd actually be faster sticking with the 70 bus.

dowlingm · 07-09-2010 04:42PM

JD - having DMUs terminate underground might be a problem. The excavation and ventilation would cost a pretty penny, no?

Judgement Day · 07-09-2010 04:49PM

dowlingm wrote: »

JD - having DMUs terminate underground might be a problem. The excavation and ventilation would cost a pretty penny, no?

Compared to the inter-connector?

Or perhaps it could be an electrified link from Heuston/Kildare. I don't believe FG are going to let the morons in CIE/IE build the interconnector anyway.

Oliver1985 · 07-09-2010 05:04PM

If F.G Get in you can say goodbye to many more rail lines in the country,
I know things are bad now but F.g are not the shining light that people think they are!!! FACT!!

Knowing Enda Kenny he will probably spend the Dart Underground on a new Mayo underground !!!:mad:

dowlingm · 07-09-2010 10:37PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Compared to the inter-connector?

A terminal platform or two doesn't really compare a through tunnel and several stations JD. But I'm sure you know that.

Carawaystick · 07-09-2010 10:50PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

As I say, I'm no engineer so there are probably a myriad of reasons why such a plan is impractical.

Seville Place or Sherrif street might get in the way

Transportuser09 · 07-09-2010 11:02PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

If further space needs freeing up in Connolly the mainline from Belfast could be moved slightly eastwards to serve new platforms where the carriage maintenance plant is at Connolly.

Thing is though where would you put the carriage maintenance plant? If you move it to the yard, then you have to put those sidings in the carpark, in which case where do you put the carpark? There's no more room.

Art(h)ur · 07-09-2010 11:34PM

I know this has been debated many times but I still think there is a bit of an excuse on IE side in the famous Connolly bottleneck argument. I happen to pass that station everyday and it looks to me that a few simple things could be done to make it work better - not sure how much it would increase the capacity but at least some 'planned delays' (don't think any other railway in the world has come up with this) could be gone.
1) Better timetabling - if every single day the same trains have to wait a few minutes before entering the station then clearly either they or the ones that block their way could be moved to 1-2 minutes earlier/later to avoid the clash. These are not high frequency lines by any standard - every 10-15 minutes at most so this would not bunch the trains up.
2) It happens way too often that a train departs (going north) and nearly immediately stops to let the other one through - could it not just wait an extra minute at the platform? It looks like an obvious way of using a station next to a junction - trains call in when other are manoeuvring and when these clear the way the former can depart. It's the basic rule of any rail simulator!

3) On the northern approach there are is a multitude of tracks but only a few of them used by darts and commuters - the majority (on the east side of the approach) is left for shunting etc, which is an exactly opposite proportion to what is needed. I guess that at most a tiny bit of new track would have to be built to provide the crossovers so that all the northern commuters and enterprises could terminate in the shed (platforms 1-4) without interrupting the dart and maynooth line traffic.
4) The trains going south onto the loop line leave an obligatory gap of 2-3 minutes between each other, stopping others from entering the station - this looks like some (health & safety?) requirement of minimum space between trains. There may be some technical reason behind it but somehow in many other cities trains can run faster and with a 1 or 2-minute frequency on the same track without any risk of bumping into each other. I remember that a year or two ago there was some upgrading of signalling at the loop line done (at least that was given as the reason for delays at the time) in order to reduce this problem - it looks like it hasn't really happened.

Aaron1 · 07-09-2010 11:40PM

TheChrisD wrote: »

Depending on the time of the train and if it's one of those ones where a massive wait is required at Clonsilla, I'd actually be faster sticking with the 70 bus.

I don't see why most Dunboyne trains can't go to Connolly, Monday to Friday. Apart from an hour or two in the morning and evening, there shouldn't be capacity issues at Connolly - surely DARTs and commuter services aren't that frequent.

In reality Docklands is not the choice of destintions for most people, apart from commuters to the IFSC area. Because of this, I reckon offpeak trains will be very empty. Instead, I would argue that offpeak Dunboyne trains should go to Connolly, Tara St, and Pearse and also serve all stations along the way. IMO this would lead to much better usage, and would bring much better train frequencies between Clonsilla and Connolly/Pearse. Granted, this would not help peak hour commuters, but would help offpeak.

The same applies to the Saturday/Sunday services to Connolly. Looking at the timetable, a lot of the trains seems to be idle for at least 30min before the return journeys start. Why not serve all stations, and go to Tara Street and Pearse.

TheChrisD · 10-09-2010 06:40PM

Alright, so having been on the train from Dunboyne to Docklands this afternoon, and having had to come back via Drumcondra later on, I really am still flummoxed about the passenger levels.

About 5 people got on at Dunboyne for the 12:38 train, and when I got off at Docklands, I swear there were only about 12 people on it.

Coming back was a different kettle of fish as I had to go via Drumcondra. The 1650 from Drumcondra (having come from Pearse) was absolutely packed full. Yet when I got off at Clonsilla and changed onto the other train, it was only about 5% full. Although it did stop at some stops along the way so I can't say for sure that it was like that since Docklands...

It's all still a little perplexing.

dowlingm · 10-09-2010 06:55PM

TBH I don't entirely blame IE - the express initial service gives a good first impression to the new catchment and they should be able to look at ticketing data to see where people are originating from that currently transfer at Clonsilla, thus giving a reasonable expectation of where stops should be made. On IRN they are complaining about the train running ahead of schedule with long station waits but in fairness Hansfield isn't online yet so that will claw back a few mins. They have three months until the new timetable so hopefully they are beavering away crunching the numbers :rolleyes:

Judgement Day · 10-09-2010 09:42PM

TheChrisD wrote: »

Alright, so having been on the train from Dunboyne to Docklands this afternoon, and having had to come back via Drumcondra later on, I really am still flummoxed about the passenger levels.

About 5 people got on at Dunboyne for the 12:38 train, and when I got off at Docklands, I swear there were only about 12 people on it.

Coming back was a different kettle of fish as I had to go via Drumcondra. The 1650 from Drumcondra (having come from Pearse) was absolutely packed full. Yet when I got off at Clonsilla and changed onto the other train, it was only about 5% full. Although it did stop at some stops along the way so I can't say for sure that it was like that since Docklands...

It's all still a little perplexing.

Sounds like you were here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

Redsoxfan · 11-09-2010 01:07PM

I passed Dunboyne Station Car Park on Friday morning at around 7.30. There were less than half a dozen cars in the car park. Given that there would have been a train at 7.13 and another due at 7.43, I was surprised not to see more cars, especially given what I am used to seeing in Maynooth at that time, and before that, Portmarnock.

I guess the majority of passengers are able to walk to the station, or perhaps the 8.13 is the most popular service? Or is utilisation really low?

TheChrisD · 11-09-2010 03:42PM

I'll assume it's a combination of low utilisation as well as being within walking distance of the most of the eastern half of the village.

When I got my train Friday afternoon, the car park was just as practically empty as you mentioned it was in the morning.

rums08 · 11-09-2010 10:30PM

Hi all,

I live in Trim and both my husband and myself work in Dublin 2. We have been driving to Dublin for the past 4 years! We tried the new train from M3 Parkway the whole of last week - and I don't know about others but we found it brilliant. The Docklands is very close to Connolly station - max a 5 to 6 min walk. Luas is a 2 min walk from the station as well. I work in the Pearse St area and my husband works in the Stephen's Green area. Though for us, the journey time is the same, the stress of commuting is virtually eliminated.

I came across a lot of posts on this topic which were quite negative. In my opinion I think it is a very good thing that this train does not go to Connolly. I have travelled on the trains to Pearse from Maynooth and by the time I get to work (my work place is close to Pearse station) - I feel so tired cos of the crowd in those trains - in sharp contrast, by travelling in the train to Docklands - not only we get to town in 31 mins, but the walk to our work places is very refreshing.

All in all, I think this was a good idea and I am sure that slowly but surely more people will start using this facility.
I also saw somebody post a message that the car park is free initially. I do not think that is correct. I went through the articles on most newspapers and they all say that the carpark is free!

My two cents worth - no offence to anyone intended!

Oasis44 · 12-09-2010 12:08PM

The car parking at M3 parkways is only free initially - that's straight from their flyer which you can get at any of the stations and was confirmed to me by email by their customer service manager

Their plan is to wait until the customer base is built up at the station and then bam bring them in. These parking charges will be on top of the €26.80 they charge for a weekly ticket vs the €19.30 they charge at dunboyne. The CS manager was able to explain to me why their using docklands and that the timetable will be improved going forward but he had noting to say re the extra €7+ they are charging at m3 parkways for a weekly ticket.

I told him they were just ripping people off that were using that station.

Bluetonic · 12-09-2010 05:24PM

Fares vary, it's hardly a rip off. You're giving out about €7.50 a week. How much petrol, wear and tear and time and effort would it take to travel that extra mile and a half every day, twice?

You're going to do an extra 15 miles a week to save €7.50. Hardly worth getting excited about one way or the other.

How would you price up the fare structure and why? Have you even given it any thought?

Oasis44 · 12-09-2010 06:28PM

Bluetonic wrote: »

Fares vary, it's hardly a rip off. You're giving out about €7.50 a week. How much petrol, wear and tear and time and effort would it take to travel that extra mile and a half every day, twice?

You're going to do an extra 15 miles a week to save €7.50. Hardly worth getting excited about one way or the other.

How would you price up the fare structure and why? Have you even given it any thought?

Why should commuters using m3 pay €26.80 and everyone else pay €19.30 at the other stations? Dunboyne station is a 5 minute drive away so I dont know where your getting your 15 miles from. The bottom line is they're hoping commuters think its because the parking is 'free' which in fact it isn't because they plan to introduce meters in the next few months. Maybe you dont have a problem paying an extra €7 a week but I do and there is bound to be a lot more annoyed too.

And the answer to to your question is €19.30 for ALL stations - simple:rolleyes:

L1011 · 12-09-2010 07:19PM

A '5 minute drive' twice a day, 5 days a week is where he's getting his 15 miles from.

Bluetonic · 12-09-2010 08:10PM

Oasis44 wrote: »

Why should commuters using m3 pay €26.80 and everyone else pay €19.30 at the other stations? Dunboyne station is a 5 minute drive away so I dont know where your getting your 15 miles from. The bottom line is they're hoping commuters think its because the parking is 'free' which in fact it isn't because they plan to introduce meters in the next few months. Maybe you dont have a problem paying an extra €7 a week but I do and there is bound to be a lot more annoyed too.

What cost is the extra 15 miles to you and your car each week? You realise you're not travelling that extra 15 miles for free to save €7?

Oasis44 wrote: »

And the answer to to your question is €19.30 for ALL stations - simple

You never answered my why question. Why €19.30?

Oasis44 · 12-09-2010 09:15PM

Bluetonic wrote: »

What cost is the extra 15 miles to you and your car each week? You realise you're not travelling that extra 15 miles for free to save €7?

You never answered my why question. Why €19.30?

€19.30 because thats the weekly price of a ticket at every other station on the line:rolleyes: Fair enough I might save on petrol etc by using m3 vs dunboyne but that's not my issue - my issue is why they are charging €7.50 extra for this station only. If they charged €7.50 extra for all the new stations on the line I would actually say fair enough because these things have to be paid for. But for some reason this station has been singled out for higher prices and I think thats out of order.

L1011 · 12-09-2010 09:17PM

I'm going to take a guess that its done purely on number of stops, hence why Maynooth's ticket prices are dearer.

Bluetonic · 12-09-2010 09:41PM

Oasis44 wrote: »

But for some reason this station has been singled out for higher prices and I think thats out of order.

So you chose to use a station where you save money on the train ticket but spend extra on time and petrol? Really you're not saving at all. I don't get that at all.

Any chance you can give me a straight answer as to how you value the ticket at €19.20 without saying cause thats what the price is.

Also not sure what the repeated use of the sarcastic smiley is for as you are saying nothing which is sarcastic.

eia340600 · 12-09-2010 10:20PM

€7.50 a week is a bit steep, it must be said.But charging the same for both stations would be wrong too.You'd then have people complaining that they have to pay as much as people who are going even further than them.I think that if Dunboyne is €19.30 a week then M3 should be €22.30 a week.Thats only an extra 50c extra per return journey if you do 6 journeys a week.Not much at all.Remember, if you travelled the same 1.34 miles on the Luas/Bus you might have to pay that much extra a too.Saying it's only one extra stop is a bad argument..Its only one stop for every zone change.

rums08 · 13-09-2010 01:09AM

If I am not wrong - (and please feel free to correct me if I am) - There are annual saver passes - tax free which if one commutes everyday could work out at €10-12 roughly a week - which is much cheaper than buying these monthly or weekly tickets. M3 Parkway comes within the short hop ticket!

I am not saying that €26.80 is not expensive, but there are ways around it. I have applied for the annual saver ticket and will be getting it from next month from my employer - they will be deducting off my gross wages for the next 6 months and it will save me money even if I have to pay for parking in the future....Any day it is better than driving into town!

All I am saying is we should appreciate what they are trying to do! Rome was not built in a day , the more people use it , the more they can provide a better service and better fares to cover their costs....and believe me all we can do is hope for the best!

I was looking at the Phase 2 plans - Wonder if that is going to go ahead?
Again no offence intended to anyone.

ongarboy · 13-09-2010 11:35AM

anyone else noticing any of the trains on the M3 - Docklands line leaving stops earlier than scheduled? I get the 9:17 from Clonsilla each morning and 3 times in the last week it has left at around 9:15. I'm thinking the driver is getting impatient having to make an artificial stop at Hansfield (unopened) so arrives at Clonsilla early and departs earlier too. Annoying if train has left even though you would technically have arrived at station on time!!

M3 Parkway rail to Docklands - Why ?

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