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A post for Soul Winner

  • 02-09-2010 08:36PM
    #1
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I have had the same post deleted three times now from the christianity forum by PDN.

    When I first found my post to be deleted, I reposted it, as I didn't see any reason for it to have been deleted. This 2nd post was then edited to inform me of the breach of charter, specifically...
    10. No swearing or facsimile thereof (includes textspeak such as "wtf"). Such words will be edited and warnings issued. Banning will occur if it continues.

    It turns out my use of the word ''fúcked'' resulted in my whole post being deleted. Note, my post wasn't edited, it was deleted, and I didn't receive a warning or a banning, no notification at all.

    So, I posted it a third time EXCLUDING all profanity and once again it was completely deleted along with the 2nd post which PDN had edited himself, still no warning or banning.

    Of course, the post couldn't have been all bad seeing as it's still there quoted in Wicknight's post.

    So, I'll post it here instead, in response to Soul Winner, if he/she happens to be a visitor here.
    Originally Posted by MagicMarker
    Stalin didn't do it because he didn't believe in God, he did it because he didn't believe in unicorns. See what I did there?

    You can't do something in the name of atheism, it doesn't even make sense. Atheism is just a disbelief in a deity. Stalin did what he did because of his own fúcked up ideologies, he just happened to be an atheist as well. This seems to be the only argument you theists can come up with, and it's been debunked time and time again.

    And I'm afraid you're wrong about atheist's ''double standards''. If a religious person happens to do a bad thing that has nothing to do with religion, then no one will say they did it in the name of religion, because that's just stupid.

    It's just unfortunate PDN feels he has to resort to such petty actions.


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    Zillah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    This is ill advised, as was your attempt to repost it after it was deleted. Their forum, their insufferably conservative rules.

    Also, mods will form ranks regardless of religious beliefs, because if you defy one, you defy the system. And the system cannot allow that.

    They're like feudal lords that way.

    Don't worry Dades, I've got this one, my liege.


  • #3
    Zillah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Fuck > fúck


  • #4
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Zillah wrote: »
    Fuck > fúck
    Sorcerer!!! :eek:


  • #5
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    If only we could get "muppet" defined as a swear word on boards.ie. We'd effectively make every PDN post disappear ;)


  • #6
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    In fairness, I couldn't possibly see why it would have been deleted, so I reposted.

    None the less, there was no reason why it couldn't have been edited (as per the charter) and a warning issued. At least then I'd know what the problem was. As it stood, I would have never known it was deleted, had I not gone back and checked, likewise with the 2nd and 3rd attempts. Besides, it's quotes in Wicknight's post, so what? Is breaking the charter okay so long as it's in quotes?

    And again, I edited ''fúcked'' out of the last post, but it was still deleted.

    Under the circumstances, I think it's understandable to believe there are ulterior motives at play.

    Oh, and I must admit, I'm assuming it was PDN who deleted the posts, as I saw he was the one who edited my 2nd one.


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  • #7
    Zillah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Thread being locked in 5, 4, 3...


  • #8
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Now ladies, you all know the rules -- no gosipping about the neighbours, lest Dades or myself have to start getting all, ah, feudal about things.


  • #9
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    Try this one, it will pass right through PDN's filter:
    Stalin didn't do it because he didn't believe in God, he did it because he didn't believe in muppets. See what I did there?

    You can't do something in the name of atheism, that's just muppetry. Atheism is just a disbelief in a deity. Stalin did what he did because of his own muppety ideologies, he just happened to be an atheist as well. This seems to be the only argument you theists can come up with, and it's been debunked time and time again.

    And I'm afraid you're wrong about atheist's ''double standards''. If a religious person happens to do a bad thing that has nothing to do with religion, then no one will say they did it in the name of religion, because that's just muppetry.


  • #10
    stevejazzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,247 ✭✭✭stevejazzx


    Goduznt Xzst wrote: »
    Try this one, it will pass right through PDN's filter:


    Wow, I wish I had of thought of that, PDN's filter:); could've saved myself a right old time. Nice.


  • #11
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Zillah wrote: »
    Fuck > fúck

    Ah, well played. My favourite til now has been fuck.


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  • #12
    Zillah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Only the finest will do. Spared no expense.


  • #13
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Zillah wrote: »
    Fuck > fúck
    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    Ah, well played. My favourite til now has been fuck.

    Atheism is great eh? Great bunch of lads altogether!

    FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK


  • #14
    Coraline Angry Bedbug
    Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Coraline Angry Bedbug


    You should take it to the resolution procedure thingy they have, with PMs and feedback. I think christianity mods are usually grand but best to resolve something like this :)


  • #15
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Kiddies, I know that you've all just started school this week, but please cut out the new word you've all just learned.

    The forum's halberd is close to myne twitchinge handde.


  • #16
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    robindch wrote: »
    The forum's halberd is close to myne twitchinge handde.

    Thou doth speak'th ye'olden wordings? :eek:


  • #17
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Stalin didn't do it because he didn't believe in God, he did it because he didn't believe in unicorns. See what I did there?

    You can't do something in the name of atheism, it doesn't even make sense. Atheism is just a disbelief in a deity. Stalin did what he did because of his own fúcked up ideologies, he just happened to be an atheist as well. This seems to be the only argument you theists can come up with, and it's been debunked time and time again.

    And I'm afraid you're wrong about atheist's ''double standards''. If a religious person happens to do a bad thing that has nothing to do with religion, then no one will say they did it in the name of religion, because that's just stupid.

    Well when one considers the thoughts of Joseph Stalin one is inclined to disagree with you on this one. He says:

    "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas." Joseph Stalin

    Ideas that were different to his I suspect.

    "The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." Joseph Stalin

    That was sweet of him.

    "The only real power comes out of a long rifle." Joseph Stalin

    Sound like something a kid would say, no wonder Saddam admired him so much. Plus this quote contradicts the first one I quoted a tad which suggests the guy was somewhat confused to boot.

    When a dictator says things like these and then carries out the atrocities that he carried out, one is convinced that his motives where driven by his frame of reference and his value system, both of which where atheistic at their core. Don't translate this into "I think all atheists have no good values." There are many atheist that have great values systems. I was simply asked a question in relation to Stalin and I'm just answering it. I think that if Stalin had been a genuine God fearing leader of men then he would not have carried out the things he did. Same goes for men who purport to be God fearing leaders who also carry out atrocities, at least Stalin was upfront about his God fearing status, he didn't have one.

    Bracing oneself for forthcoming the barrage of slurs....:eek:


  • #18
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    Soul Winner wrote: »

    When a dictator says things like these and then carries out the atrocities that he carried out, one is convinced that his motives where driven by his frame of reference and his value system, both of which where atheistic at their core. Don't translate this into "I think all atheists have no good values." There are many atheist that have great values systems. I was simply asked a question in relation to Stalin and I'm just answering it. I think that if Stalin had been a genuine God fearing leader of men then he would not have carried out the things he did. Same goes for men who purport to be God fearing leaders who also carry out atrocities, at least Stalin was upfront about his God fearing status, he didn't have one.

    Bracing oneself for forthcoming the barrage of slurs....:eek:

    So because he didn't believe in a higher power he automatically is more prone to massacres? That had he believed in God he wouldn't have killed millions?

    ...Wait so no god-loving/fearing man ever commited atrocities?
    Ever? That if they do they aren't really Christian?

    That's a pretty handy cop out card, that.


  • #19
    Otacon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    ...one is convinced that his motives where driven by his frame of reference and his value system, both of which where atheistic at their core...

    What atheistic values exactly? The only thing I have in common with Stalin is a lack of belief in God.


  • #20
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    mehfesto wrote: »
    So because he didn't believe in a higher power he automatically is more prone to massacres? That had he believed in God he wouldn't have killed millions?

    ...Wait so no god-loving/fearing man ever commited atrocities?
    Ever? That if they do they aren't really Christian?

    That's a pretty handy cop out card, that.

    Its not that he didn't believe in God, its that he didn't fear God. Big difference. There are plenty of leaders who believe in God but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are God fearing leaders. If they were, then they too wouldn't do some of the things they do either.


  • #21
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    Otacon wrote: »
    What atheistic values exactly?

    I quoted them. Had he been a genuine God fearing leader he wouldn't have said those things nor done the things he did. He wasn't a bad person because he was an atheist but his atheistic ideology did drive his thinking and ultimately his actions.


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  • #22
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    I quoted them. Had he been a genuine God fearing leader he wouldn't have said those things nor done the things he did. He wasn't a bad person because he was an atheist but his atheistic ideology did drive his thinking and ultimately his actions.

    Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Christian, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Atheist Sex Maniac Strikes Again." Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Christian would do such a thing." The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about a Protestant man whose brutal actions make the atheist sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Christian would do such a thing."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman


  • #23
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    So he didn't fear God, therefore he had no moral qualms with the killings of millions? That's your belief, yeah?

    Isn't that a bit simplistic?

    And what's this about genuinely fearing God? Is this another 'no true scotsman' argument?

    The Spanish Inquisition were pretty God fearing and they slaughtered thousands.

    I think your argument has pretty large holes in it.


  • #24
    thirtythirty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭thirtythirty


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    I quoted them. Had he been a genuine God fearing leader he wouldn't have said those things nor done the things he did. He wasn't a bad person because he was an atheist but his atheistic ideology did drive his thinking and ultimately his actions.

    That's a very brave and surefooted statement.

    Assumption makes an ass of you and me you know.


  • #25
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    Its not that he didn't believe in God, its that he didn't fear God. Big difference. There are plenty of leaders who believe in God but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are God fearing leaders. If they were, then they too wouldn't do some of the things they do either.

    Elijah......David.....Moses.

    Any questions?


  • #26
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    George Bush, god fearing simpleton, never did anything wrong?


  • #27
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    Like I said guys. Genuine God fearing leaders would not do what Stalin did for the reasons Stalin did them. A person can be God fearing even if it turns out that God does not exist. Elijah didn't do anything like what Stalin did. David killed in self defense and in battle, he did not kill millions of people arbitrarily just so he could stay in control. Plus all these guys lived in a time when it was kill or be killed. Stalin didn't have to commit the atrocities he committed in order to stay in power. He was just an evil bastard. Plus I never said that people who believe in God don't do evil things, I said that genuine God fearing people wouldn't do the likes of what Stalin did. George Bush IMO is not a God fearing man, Tony Blair maybe but not Bush. At least Blair is showing signs of regret for the war in Iraq or for the deaths that resulted at least, you don't see Bush doing that. Anyway I believe that you can be God fearing and fight wars worth fighting but that's where its stops, as soon as you would stoop to whatever level you think justifies you staying in power no matter what then you have lost the plot altogether. Stalin lost the plot and the reason he had no qualms about it is because he didn't believe that he would be ultimately held accountable to anyone for his actions. People who genuinely believe that they will be ultimately held accountable for their actions in this life would not do these types of things unless they are insane. I hope for George Bush's sake that the reasons he gave for invading Iraq were honest reasons before he meets the God he professes to believe in, because he might have fooled most of the world but if God exists then he didn't fool Him. If God exists then everyone will give an account of their lives to Him. If you don't believe that then without a genuine love for your fellow man then God knows what lengths you'll go to get what you want. As for the Inquisition. What they did was utterly wrong. But if one delves a bit deeper into their theology then it is easy to see that their religion was gone way off the track of what Christ laid down for the Church. They weren't turning the other cheek, or welcoming to strangers, or loving their enemies. These were Christ's commands and if they genuinely loved Him then they too would not have committed the atrocities they committed either.


  • #28
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    Its not that he didn't believe in God, its that he didn't fear God. Big difference. There are plenty of leaders who believe in God but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are God fearing leaders. If they were, then they too wouldn't do some of the things they do either.

    Indeed, one's atheism, the other is not. So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter whether Stalin believed in God, his beliefs were still atheistic at their core, even if he did believe.

    Does this make sense to anyone else?


  • #29
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    I believe in paragraphs.


  • #30
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I agree with SW in that had he been a genuine "God fearing" theist he might have thought twice about becoming a genocidal dictator.

    However, not all believers (i.e. non-atheists) are "God fearing" in this sense so that point means nothing in this discussion.

    Robert Mugabe is superficially a Roman Catholic, so I think it's safe to say he is a believer of sorts. Are his actions a result of his catholicism or of his megalomania?

    In short one's belief or not in a supernatural being doesn't necessarily guide you in your actions. People do what they will do, regardless of what they believe, not because of it.


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  • #31
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Fair play for being able to type this "I said that genuine God fearing people wouldn't do the likes of what Stalin did. George Bush IMO is not a God fearing man" with what I'd imagine was a straight face less than half a page down from this:
    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Christian, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Atheist Sex Maniac Strikes Again." Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Christian would do such a thing." The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about a Protestant man whose brutal actions make the atheist sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Christian would do such a thing."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    I don't think I could have done it.


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