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Documenting Ireland's cycle lanes

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  • #272
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    By the way, on the left here is a very nice Panini shop:

    1-211.JPG

    Map Link

    Nowhere to lock a bike though, which is a shame.


  • #273
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    That's my guess too. Bizarre though, isn't it? I guess they think that crossing the two lanes of traffic is beyond the skills of cyclists. To be fair, it is beyond the skills of many. Generally, cyclists who can't traverse multiple lanes carefully and sequentially should really use a pedestrian light, not swing suddenly across both lanes at right angles, as those markings seem to be suggesting you do. It does look as if there's a pedestrian light there, but it should really be more like a UK Toucan crossing.

    Yeah, this is your view as you come into the junction:

    1-181.JPG

    If you're turning right, you need to be brave enough to take the lane and move into the right filter lane. At no point is it signposted (that I saw) that there'll be an opportunity to turn right when you get to the junction.

    Then when you get to this section, the crossing sends you across the road at 90 degrees, separate from the pedestrian crossing.
    All it says to me is that they painted the straight ahead lane and then realised "oops, we forgot to give people an option for turning right" and just got the white paint out and did some kind of bodge job.

    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    By the way, on the left here is a very nice Panini shop:

    1-211.JPG

    Map Link

    Nowhere to lock a bike though, which is a shame.

    Yep, very tasty. Limited parking too though, so increasing the temptation to park on the bike lane or footpath.


  • #274
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    I saw this yesterday and was going to take a photo but was in a rush. Signs pointing to a lane closed to traffic for road works. Oh, the cycle path is not under any repairs, but it's ok to block it for signage:
    1-79.JPG

    This one was worse imho - on the humpback bridge between Leeson St Upr & Lwr
    map

    1-115.JPG

    1-116.JPG


    The signs on the cycle path at Belfield are annoying (and stupid), but this arrangement above just dumps cyclists into very tightly packed traffic. You can see from the two lads (and myself, when I got there) don't actually know what to do. When I put away the camera a bus pulled up behind the black Mercedes, positioned close enough to the parked truck that you couldn't even fit between the two if you were on foot.

    I ended up having to jump up on the path as it felt safer.


  • #275
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Then when you get to this section, the crossing sends you across the road at 90 degrees, separate from the pedestrian crossing.
    All it says to me is that they painted the straight ahead lane and then realised "oops, we forgot to give people an option for turning right" and just got the white paint out and did some kind of bodge job.
    The Clonkeen Road version of it is even worse as it puts you sitting directly in front of traffic to your left, except at a 90 degree angle to them so you are slower starting off than they are if you wait for the lights:

    1-13.JPG


  • #276
    n-dawg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭n-dawg


    Blowfish wrote: »
    The Clonkeen Road version of it is even worse as it puts you sitting directly in front of traffic to your left, except at a 90 degree angle to them so you are slower starting off than they are if you wait for the lights:

    1-13.JPG

    I actually find this very handy...


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  • #277
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    n-dawg wrote: »
    I actually find this very handy...
    How so? If you are turning right, just move into the right hand lane.


  • #278
    n-dawg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭n-dawg


    Blowfish wrote: »
    How so? If you are turning right, just move into the right hand lane.

    Yes I agree but at this praticular lights the traffic on the left (just out of photo) gets a green light before the right turning filter lane!

    Also crossing the 3 lanes of traffic to get to the right filter can be a bit of a pain unless your lucky and get a break in cars or the cars are slowing down for a red light. The speed limit for this section of road is 80km/hr and most cars will do more.


  • #279
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    1-182.JPG
    1-13.JPG

    I guess they are attempts to formalise the "hook turn":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn
    Also mentioned here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055694898&page=2


  • #280
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    I've been cycling a lot of that route for a few years now, if I may offer some commentary:

    Classic spot for broken glass after the weekend or people standing behind the bus shelter:

    Beware this left turn, no one yields to cycle traffic and you have no view of what is around the corner until very late on, to me it's a major hazard and requires a "yield to cyclists" sign or similar:

    A regular occurrence at any bus stop. Don't mind me, I'm happy to stop and wait for the bus to arrive and then for you to get on it:

    Never follow the lights at White's cross, cars regularly (always) go through the lights, if you are looking at the green light you will get mowed down:

    Lunacy, I had a bus nearly try and pull in on top of me yesterday despite being several yards ahead of him and going at speed. I yield when they are ahead of me and I expect the same from them:

    Ah yes, the disappearing cycle lane. You basically merge with pavement then turn back onto cycle lane after the bus stop. There is a big kerb so going onto the bus lane is not an option:

    Been nearly crushed here a few times by left turning traffic not yielding:

    And here:

    Yup here again, turning left into Esso station, twice by lads cutting out of traffic and trying fast left handers:

    Here I hop onto the bus lane (if it's clear) and continue until the 2nd set of traffic lights. Much, much safer, trust me. Those driveways are lethal:

    I saw this yesterday and was going to take a photo but was in a rush. Signs pointing to a lane closed to traffic for road works. Oh, the cycle path is not under any repairs, but it's ok to block it for signage:

    This is where I nearly got taken out by an angry bus driver for using the bus lane. I have a total block about the cycle path here, I've seen cars come out of the side entrances there and they stop when they reach the stop sign. You can't see it in Chris' photo, but the walls obscure a lot of driver's field of vision and basically you are hoping they will yield at the cycle lane and not at the bus lane. I refuse to use them unless there is very heavy traffic and I slow to a crawl:

    Ah, double parked, just like I said:

    Followed by risk of dooring or car pulling out, lovely:
    But apart from that, it is OK - right?


  • #281
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Oh yeah it's dandy! These are really just my "mental notes", I can navigate it quite freely for the most part.

    It would be perfect if the cycle lane usage was optional. Some sections I prefer to be on them, I don't like holding up traffic and parts of it are ok to cycle on, but other sections are downright dangerous and it would be nice if avoiding them didn't send other road users into a blind rage.

    Well done to Chris, that is some amount of photo taking and pretty comprehensive. You must have trebled your journey time :)


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  • #282
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    Well done to Chris, that is some amount of photo taking and pretty comprehensive. You must have trebled your journey time :)

    No worries, I'm intending to do basically the same thing via Blackrock and Mount Merrion tomorrow (if the weather's nice enough).

    I'll keep you posted! :D


  • #283
    n-dawg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭n-dawg


    -Chris- wrote: »
    No worries, I'm intending to do basically the same thing via Blackrock and Mount Merrion tomorrow (if the weather's nice enough).

    I'll keep you posted! :D

    Thats the way I cycle every day so if I see you I'll say hello... Im coming from Bray and would never use the N11 after Clonkeen road, the Rock road is flatter and has no cycle lane, perfect :p


  • #284
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,239 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    @ tomasrojo: A bit off topic from the Thread title - but FYI there are plans to introduce the "Hook Turn box" into Galway City for the upgraded Seamus Quirke/Bishop O Donnell Road where they are putting in new Bus Lanes. Currently we dont have any "Hook Turn" boxs in Galway city. Since when has it been creeping into road designs up in Dublin?


  • #285
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    n-dawg wrote: »
    the Rock road is flatter and has no cycle lane, perfect :p

    Not if you're trying to document cycle lanes! :D

    I may have to reassess.


  • #286
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    what_traffic wrote: »
    @ tomasrojo: A bit off topic from the Thread title - but FYI there are plans to introduce the "Hook Turn box" into Galway City for the upgraded Seamus Quirke/Bishop O Donnell Road where they are putting in new Bus Lanes. Currently we dont have any "Hook Turn" boxs in Galway city. Since when has it been creeping into road designs up in Dublin?
    I must say that before this thread I wasn't aware of any hook-turn designs anywhere in Ireland.

    Galway really is undergoing a period of experimental cycle-design, isn't it?

    Of course, I can't let any opportunity go by without showcasing this beauty:

    93919.JPG


  • #287
    n-dawg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭n-dawg


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Not if you're trying to document cycle lanes! :D

    I may have to reassess.

    Well I could tell you my two key annoyances, the new junction at sping hill and the traffic cone that has been cemented to the road (In the cycle lane) just before tara towers. The bits of cycle lanes on this road are mostly short ~100m jobs around traffic lights and are all the on road varity.


  • #288
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    n-dawg wrote: »
    Thats the way I cycle every day so if I see you I'll say hello... Im coming from Bray and would never use the N11 after Clonkeen road, the Rock road is flatter and has no cycle lane, perfect :p

    I am not sure why anyone heading into town from Loughlinstown/Bray/Shankill direction would want to use the N11 over Deansgrange/Rock Road. There is a good bus lane a lot of the way, the road surface is reasonably good and the bus lane is much quieter than the N11. There are no off road cycle lanes to be forced onto and if you cross at Merrion gates, no traffic lights for long stretches. I am not sure of the quality of the stretch from Merrion Gates through Ballsbridge as i use Strand road/Beach Road.. I look forward to Chris' report.


  • #289
    manwithaplan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭manwithaplan


    It's probably been answered elsewhere in this thread but what's with the time-limited cycle lanes. There are signs on the Howth Road near Harry Byrne's (and probably elsewhere) stating something along the lines of "Cycle Track 07:00 - 10:00, 16:30-19:00". This is an on-road cycle lane of less than a metre's width beside a single lane of traffic. I understand the point of peak hour bus lanes but how does this apply in the case of a cycle lane?

    What use could it be? I know taxis sometimes queue outside Harry Byrne's although it's not an official rank and that cars are often parked on the road at night. Maybe it's to indicate that you can park there outside peak hours. It might allow a driver "undertake" a right turning vehicle also, I suppose. It struck me as being a bit odd (although it doesn't bother me in the slightest) - anyone got the (peak hour) inside track?


  • #290
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    I don't know about the specific example you mention but in Ranelagh the purpose is to allow cars to park in the "cycle lane" outside of rush hour.


  • #291
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    I don't know about the specific example you mention but in Ranelagh the purpose is to allow cars to park in the "cycle lane" outside of rush hour.
    Indeed, though typically enough the hours are rarely enforced so cycle lanes with this restriction are quite often useless as cars just park in them regardless.


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  • #292
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    manwithaplan wrote: »
    It's probably been answered elsewhere in this thread but what's with the time-limited cycle lanes. There are signs on the Howth Road near Harry Byrne's (and probably elsewhere) stating something along the lines of "Cycle Track 07:00 - 10:00, 16:30-19:00". This is an on-road cycle lane of less than a metre's width beside a single lane of traffic. I understand the point of peak hour bus lanes but how does this apply in the case of a cycle lane?

    What use could it be? I know taxis sometimes queue outside Harry Byrne's although it's not an official rank and that cars are often parked on the road at night. Maybe it's to indicate that you can park there outside peak hours. It might allow a driver "undertake" a right turning vehicle also, I suppose. It struck me as being a bit odd (although it doesn't bother me in the slightest) - anyone got the (peak hour) inside track?

    If the lane is less than a metre, then presumably it's an advisory (dashed line) lane rather than a mandatory (solid line) lane? If so, then the undertaking thing doesn't apply as vehicles can legally track into an advisory lane during its hours of operation (as long as a cyclist isn't coming up its inside- the driver is supposed to check first).

    Parking is the most likely excuse (though some parking is permitted in advisory lanes anyway for periods of less than 30 minutes- discussed previously here in considerable detail).

    The alternative interpretation is that, instead of seeing it as a cycle lane that only operates temporarily, it is a parking area where parking is temporarily suspended during rush hour to provide a measure of priority to cyclists at peak hours.

    PS I don't understand the point of peak hour bus lanes- why is additional road capacity for general traffic required/provided when there are fewer cars on the road? Seems to just encourage a wider spread of vehicles and, thus, potentially higher speeds, while quite possibly imposing a delay on the (admittedly less frequent) buses (and taxis, and bikes).


  • #293
    manwithaplan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭manwithaplan


    I'm pretty sure it's a dashed line alright. So it's a parking thing.

    I have been cycling along there for years and I actually only registered that I was in a cycling lane this morning. Now that I think of it, I seem to remember that cars used to line up side by side there in the morning rush hour so I suppose the cycle lane is doing its job.

    Thanks all.


  • #294
    cdaly_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    Doctor Bob wrote: »
    PS I don't understand the point of peak hour bus lanes- why is additional road capacity for general traffic required/provided when there are fewer cars on the road? Seems to just encourage a wider spread of vehicles and, thus, potentially higher speeds, while quite possibly imposing a delay on the (admittedly less frequent) buses (and taxis, and bikes).
    Oh, they're brilliant! When I'm driving outside the lane's operating hours most of the sheep drivers still stay out of the bus lane and I can drive contentedly past them all.



    until, that is, the Garda pulls me over to ask why I'm passing on the left...


  • #295
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Doctor Bob wrote: »
    If the lane is less than a metre, then presumably it's an advisory (dashed line) lane rather than a mandatory (solid line) lane? If so, then the undertaking thing doesn't apply as vehicles can legally track into an advisory lane during its hours of operation (as long as a cyclist isn't coming up its inside- the driver is supposed to check first).

    The one outside the beacon in Sandyford is by far the worst for this. Blorg reported it some years ago and I got to use it again yesterday. It's fine when there is a red light straight ahead, you just let the cars go. But no one ever gives you the right of way and I would worry about a cyclist who isn't aware of this just happily continuing straight on.


  • #296
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,239 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I must say that before this thread I wasn't aware of any hook-turn designs anywhere in Ireland.

    Galway really is undergoing a period of experimental cycle-design, isn't it?

    Of course, I can't let any opportunity go by without showcasing this beauty:

    93919.JPG

    I actually took that photo but "galwaycyclist" uploaded to the net. One thing about Doughiska Rd (road in the photo) is that this mess is very easy to rectify just by removing all the paint from the footpaths. Its already traffic calmed and there is very little speeding on this road. Problem solved, unlike other cycling paths here in Galway where you have concrete for pedestrians and tarmacadam for the bike paths.


  • #297
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Am I seeing it right that the roads coming from the right as you look at the picture have stop signs?

    If this is the case, why do cyclists have yield and motorists have stop signs at the same time - how are you supposed to decide who gets priority?


  • #298
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,239 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Am I seeing it right that the roads coming from the right as you look at the picture have stop signs?

    If this is the case, why do cyclists have yield and motorists have stop signs at the same time - how are you supposed to decide who gets priority?

    Your analysis is right. They do have "STOP" signs and cyclists have the yield markings on the path. The way they have done it makes it very confusing for all road users. Its a real grey area if you where to have an accident at one of these junctions. There are more photos for viewing at this link:
    http://www.galwaycycling.org/july-2010-cyclists-face-doomsday-as-director-of-services-says-doughiska-is-the-model-for-the-city/


  • #299
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Some on my route, D.15

    DSC_4382.JPG

    DSC_4391.JPG

    DSC_4384.JPG

    DSC_4379.JPG


  • #300
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    The roundabout kinda is interesting because you can only go left on the cycle path. No on/off ramp.

    The problem with bad lanes is many,

    1) Dangerous put you in the wrong place on the road (at junctions)
    2) People don't learn road skills (being in right lane)
    3) Driver don't learn to expect and anticipate cyclists on road
    4) Drivers don't learn to expect and anticipate cyclists in the right lane
    5) Modifications are more complex and expensive (than just a white line (or no line) on the road)
    6) Money spent would be better spend on widening the road where possible (removing hedgerows, ditches on narrow sections) and keeping the cyclist on the road.

    Cycle lanes/tracks on pavements in places like a park, or seafront, or around schools and estates where kids and inexperienced cyclists can use them, maybe. Or express cycle lanes for commuters. But for everyone else it makes more sense to be on the road, fitting into the existing traffic system, where everyone knows the rules. (well supposedly)


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  • #301
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    Does anyone want to compile some of this stuff into a word document or PDF and send it to TDs or Councillors. Or even send them a link to this thread or the flickr group?

    Its no use preaching to the choir here on the cycling forum.


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