Home brewed cider from store bought juice.

rabbit Stew · 18-08-2010 01:09AM #1

Hi guys.
Was just reading this article on "Turbo Cider" from the River Cottage forum
http://community.rivercottage.net/users/IanT/forums/processing-and-other-crafts/viewtopic/topic_id:6434
Thought i might give it a try so checked Tesco on-line for Cheap juice and found this.
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=264586610
Apple and elderflower juice drink (45% juice content)
I know it's not pure juice but is it worth a try? €6.36 for 8Ltrs
Or should I splash out and buy pure apple juice? €9.78 for 8Ltrs
I was going to use a yeast starter made from washed yeast from my last batch of Coopers Lager.

If anyone has tried this or has any suggestions before I start i'd love to hear them.

Ps. Or I could be safe and just buy a cider kit for €16?

BeerNut · 18-08-2010 09:30AM

You'll need pure apple juice. I use the cloudy juice from Lidl with good results. It's 99c a litre.

Mantel · 20-08-2010 08:19AM

Most if the supermarkets have their own brand pressed Apple juice, mainly cloudy but some also have filtered clear juice.

A juice drink is watered down and sugared up. It'll still ferment well enough and since It's cheap It's always worth a shot

rabbit Stew · 20-08-2010 11:22PM

What about washed ale yeast that I've recycled from my coopers kit?
I know it will do the job and personaly I prefer a sweeter cider.
That's why I'm avoiding the wine and champange yeasts.
Anyone tried it?

thelynchfella · 22-08-2010 06:01PM

i would imagine its going to turn out a dry cider regardless of what yeast you use

BeerNut · 22-08-2010 11:25PM

If you add Splenda with your priming sugar (half as much again, or maybe a bit less) you can get a nice sweetness in turbo cider.

thelynchfella · 23-08-2010 03:41PM

oh yeh, and splenda doesnt ferment so you can really use as much as you like without the fear of exploding bottles!!!

Degsy · 15-09-2010 06:02PM

I'm gonna have a crack at this later on..how much sugar will i need for say 15 litres of juice?

oblivious · 15-09-2010 06:51PM

Degsy wrote: »

I'm gonna have a crack at this later on..how much sugar will i need for say 15 litres of juice?

None juice Dunne's not from concentrate apple juice has an original gravity of 1.050 or so that will produce a 6% cider

rubadub · 15-09-2010 07:43PM

Tesco own brand pressed is 1.35, also in tesco squeez apple juice is on offer for 99c but it is from concentrate.

For those who brew with cloudy ones does it clear at all when you add finings? I am just wondering how you guage if the yeast has settled.

Did you know unfermented apple juice already contains methanol, and some cleared ones have even more, then when fermented I think the pectin leads to more methanol being produced.

Some fruit juices are naturally high in methanol - for example apple juice can have 0.2-0.3% methanol, or if derived from pulp by enzymatic degradation, the levels can be 2 to 3 times higher.

In http://archive.food.gov.uk/maff/archive/food/infsheet/1993/no17/17orange.htm orange juice contains 10 to 50 times as much methanol as sugarmash.

The lethal dose of methanol is at least 100 ml that is equal to about 80000 mg or you need 27000 liters of mash at least to get that amount.

also from the webpage: "Dietary surveys have shown that an extreme consumer of orange juice drinks slightly over 2 litres/day. The estimated maximum intake of methanol based on this consumption would be 455 mg for a 60 kg adult which is below the maximum advisory intake of 600 mg per day for a 60 kg adult, recommended by the Department of Health."

"sugar mash" is just fermented sucrose, which is popular for distillers as it makes a very cheap and clean alcohol. You could also clear sugar mash and then treat it with carbon to remove tastes and other nasties, this is similar to those liquer kits but far less expensive.

The Long Ashton Research Station did some studies that showed that ciders and apple juices clarified with pectic enzymes are higher in methanol due to the demethylation of juice pectins. The methanol content varied from 10 to 400 ppm in the test samples. I don't know which fruits are highest/lowest in pectin content, but apples are commonly considered the highest.

This is why all the old books on cider making refer to a condition called "apple palsey" - it's the massively painfull hangover from the high methanol content. In order to prevent this (I'm sure distilling the pectin turns it into methanol) distillers must fully clarify any fruit wine before cooking it. Rather than use clarifiers, put the wine into 2 or 4 liter plastic jugs (only filled half full) and freeze them solid, then thaw them out, this will result in perfectly clear (and chill- stabilized) wine ready for distilling. After the thawing is complete or maybe as much as a week after, the wine will be crystal clear.

oblivious · 15-09-2010 09:38PM

rubadub wrote: »

For those who brew with cloudy ones does it clear at all when you add finings? I am just wondering how you guage if the yeast has settled.

pectin hazy not many finings are designed again it. pectinase used in wine would clear it up and for the yeast 2-3 week in bottle most will have settelded out

Degsy · 15-09-2010 09:42PM

Got my juice today in lidl..79 cent a litre for clear juice.

oblivious · 15-09-2010 09:46PM

Degsy wrote: »

Got my juice today in lidl..79 cent a litre for clear juice.

Enjoy

Degsy · 16-09-2010 10:35AM

oblivious wrote: »

Enjoy

Checked it this morning and its fermenting away nicely.

Degsy · 21-09-2010 11:31AM

Its been ferementing now for 6 days..i havnt got a hydrometer so i need a rough idea of how much longer to leave it?

rubadub · 21-09-2010 11:47AM

Degsy wrote: »

Its been ferementing now for 6 days..i havnt got a hydrometer so i need a rough idea of how much longer to leave it?

Its hard to say, can depend on brewing temps and how good of a start it got. I had a hydrometer but did not use it a lot, I went by look and sound, if it is brewing it is giving off bubbles, so if you hold your ear to it you can hear it bubbling away like a glass of coke would if you held it to your ear. If the bubbling has stopped then the brewing has pretty much stopped. You can also take a clean soup spoon or ladel and take a bit out, if it is sweet it still has sugar, if it tastes dry it should be done. If you have an water type airlock you can see when bubbling has died down.

Degsy · 27-09-2010 02:45PM

Bottled it up yesterday,good colour and nice smell..i had a taste and its very close to shop-bought cider too so all in all a great sucess.

Got another 20 litres of juice in Lidl today so another brew is already underway!

Mantel · 28-09-2010 09:20AM

I've seen Lidl is doing a special this saturday on apple juice, price changed from €1.25 to 75c just this saturday

http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.Super_Saturday.Super_Saturday

rubadub · 28-09-2010 09:24AM

Mantel wrote: »

I've seen Lidl is doing a special this saturday on apple juice, price changed from €1.25 to 75c just this saturday

http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.Super_Saturday.Super_Saturday

Forgot about that, saw it yesterday. Tesco have kelkin pressed juice on offer too, it wasn't that great though, no zing to it. I like bramble hill pressed juice which can be got sometimes in supervalu or eurospar, it has a great zing to it, like biting into a granny smith.

Mantel · 28-09-2010 09:56AM

rubadub wrote: »

Forgot about that, saw it yesterday. Tesco have kelkin pressed juice on offer too, it wasn't that great though, no zing to it. I like bramble hill pressed juice which can be got sometimes in supervalu or eurospar, it has a great zing to it, like biting into a granny smith.

If you don't mind the quality of your juice too much there's tesco's clear allple juice (from concentrate) which they're selling at 75c for 1.5L atm, the price says €1.40 but the register sells it for 75c

I've used it before, it turned out fairly okay.

Degsy · 28-09-2010 11:49AM

Could you use,for example orange juice or mango juicde?
What would that give you?

oblivious · 28-09-2010 12:09PM

Degsy wrote: »

orange juice

It what they use in prison, you would call it "prison love"

rubadub · 28-09-2010 12:13PM

Degsy wrote: »

Could you use,for example orange juice or mango juicde?
What would that give you?

Yes, a mate of mine did it, I can't recall how it turned out, think he added sugar & water too. I once even fermented red lemonade! I think my mate might have tried fermenting coke too.

One thing I will give a miss is fermented horse milk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis

Mantel · 28-09-2010 12:45PM

Degsy wrote: »

Could you use,for example orange juice or mango juicde?
What would that give you?

If you go for a pulp heavy juice be prepared to strain. Anything with sugar in it can be fermented, how it tastes is another matter

Fermented citrus fruit isn't supposed to taste the best

silliegillie · 07-12-2010 10:19PM

Hi Guys,it all sounds interesting, I was thinking of using some of the Lidl Stuff, I saw your man "craigtube" doing a simple Hard apple cider. He used nearly 5 litres of apple juice, 2 cups of sugar, and normal bakers yeast with some type of agitator( I did used bakers yeast and raisins crushed in warm water for an eldeflower champagne I made in june and was pleasantly suprised) Is this close to how you guys are doing it, do you guys add in yeast sugar ect..? Do you aslo bottle and prime it ? If any one has a simple recipe either to share or point me to a thread where there is one. For some reason I think I would prefer to make cider this way than buying a cider kit.

guildofevil · 08-12-2010 02:23PM

Just apple juice, yeast and time will give you cider.

A photo tutorial of the process can be found here.

I would recommend using a brewing yeast, rather than a bakers yeast. Champaign or cider yeast can be purchased cheaply from any homebrew shop.

If you want particularly strong cider you can add sugar, but most commercial apple juice will give you cider of about 5% Vol. without adding extra sugar. Lidl cloudy apple juice seems to be the most commonly used.

When the fermentation has finished, I would prime the bottles with 1/2-1 tsp of sugar (assuming 500ml bottles here) to give it a bit of fizz.

rubadub · 08-12-2010 02:26PM

guildofevil wrote: »

but most commercial apple juice will give you cider of about 5% Vol. without adding extra sugar. Lidl cloudy apple juice seems to be the most commonly used.

Instead of sugar you could add concentrated apple juice, many health food shops have it though it is pricey, not sure if you can still get those cans of squeez anywhere.

Mr Benevolent · 08-12-2010 06:53PM

rubadub wrote: »

Instead of sugar you could add concentrated apple juice, many health food shops have it though it is pricey, not sure if you can still get those cans of squeez anywhere.

I saw them in Eurospar yesterday.

FlipperThePriest · 12-12-2010 03:09PM

I've started a gallon batch on thursday at 1.046 with apple juice, yeast nutrient and cider yeast..It was mad busy for a few days and now it's slowed way down and is at 1.004 (about 5.7%). I don't think I want it too dry but it's only been fermenting for 3 days! Can it get much dryer since it's at 1.004? I'm thinking of clearing it in the next few days and bottle conditioning it! Any thoughts?

guildofevil · 13-12-2010 12:06PM

I have had cider do down to 0.998 on me so, yes it could have a way to go yet.

If you are going to bottle condition it, make sure it has finished fermenting first. Bottle conditioning involves adding sugar and allowing the yeast to ferment in the bottle, building up carbon dioxide pressure.

If you bottle before the yeast has finished with the sugars from the apple juice, it will ferment those sugars in the bottle, as well as the priming sugar you gave it at bottling time and produce more carbon dioxide than you bargained for.

This extra pressure will cause gushing when you open the cider and may even cause bottle to explode during conditioning.

Give it more time in the primary. A couple of weeks at least. Make sure it has completely finished fermenting before you bottle.

Mantel · 14-12-2010 03:28PM

rubadub wrote: »

Instead of sugar you could add concentrated apple juice, many health food shops have it though it is pricey, not sure if you can still get those cans of squeez anywhere.

A little honey is also an option and depending on the price of course

The cider kits that you can get are basically a can of concentrated apple juice. I used a blackrock one in my last cider and apple juice instead of water. I've left it to age a bit still in the primary and haven't touched it yet, no idea what it tastes like so far.

I have an elderflower cider going as well, straight from the tesco carton with a pound of honey added. Smells great

Home brewed cider from store bought juice.

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