CAP2 Exams

DaeryssaOne · 20-08-2010 09:35AM

NewSue wrote: »

Hi the ICAI did it again short notice, of course no one has a life, we all just sit around waiting to be summoned by them!

I have requested that they video it (in case it is any good) and put it up online, the way they did for some of the lectures. Of course I got no response from the ICAI.

Can you all email them to do this and pass the request around as they may listen and do it if enough students contacts them.

Thanks!

Hi Sue, our firm received an email yesterday about the debriefing and we were told that it will be filmed:

"For students outside Dublin who are not able to attend, it is hoped that the session will either be streamed live on the CAI website or posted there shortly afterwards for download."

prinz · 20-08-2010 11:04AM

Anyone have any further info on this session? I can't find anything about it on the website.

leanne249 · 20-08-2010 11:15AM

prinz wrote: »

Anyone have any further info on this session? I can't find anything about it on the website.

Hi prinz, did you receive an e-mail?
Apart from e-mail there is now information on the website.In case you didn't get e-mail here is the copy of it:

Dear CAP 2 Student
Following publication of the CAP 2 results last week, the Institute contacted the Chartered Accountants Student Society Dublin to request a meeting. The focus of this meeting was on what positive action can now be taken to address and improve the current pass rate in the autumn repeats.
The Institute are particularly concerned that students may be feeling overwhelmed and disheartened by the number of exams they have to repeat and that this could adversely affect performance in the repeats.
In light of this, the Institute are proposing to run an “Examination Debriefing” this Saturday, 21st August from 10am to 1pm in Chartered Accountants House, 47 - 49 Pearse Street, Dublin. The emphasis of this session will be on practical steps that students can take, both now and during the exam itself, to increase their score. If you choose to attend, please bring copies of the 2010 exam papers, which are available on the website, as well as a pen, paper and a calculator.
The proposal is that members of the Institute would perform a “walk-through” of the Summer 2010 CAP 2 papers, addressing the principal issues within each one and demonstrating the optimal approaches to solutions. A key element of the learning would be that students would leave with an enhanced understanding of both the style and structure of answer required by examiners – that they would leave more confident, more knowledgeable and better equipped to score marks.
If you have any interest in attending this session, please send a very brief email to cassdinfo@gmail.com confirming your interest. It will be extremely helpful if the CAI have an idea of the expected turnout.
For students outside Dublin who are not able to attend, it is hoped that the session will either be streamed live on the CAI website or posted there shortly afterwards for download.
Depending on the levels of interest and response to it, there is a possibility that this seminar could be repeated at later dates.
The session has been suggested for this coming weekend to avoid clashing with the revision courses the Institute are running between now and the repeats.
Wishing you all the very best of luck in the Autumn sitting.

leanne249 · 20-08-2010 11:23AM

just received one minute ago by email this:

Dear Student,
Please note that for those of you who are unable to make the exam debriefing the session the session will be posted on the Student Services website next week.
Kind regards
Student Services

daddydick · 20-08-2010 03:06PM

Hi guys,

I'm wondering which exam papers should I tackle for the tax repeat outside of the ICAI papers which I have done inside out.

Which ACCA/CPA papers are similar and where can I find these papers?

Thanks

R0N BURGUNDY · 20-08-2010 04:46PM

lol - just reading the exam report here for fr:

"This EPS question was poorly answered overall with an average of 6.7 / 18 marks (37%)."

lol - fu<king hell. if half the dublin class didnt have the solution in front of them, im sure the average would have been alot lower ffs.

Odats · 20-08-2010 04:57PM

daddydick wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm wondering which exam papers should I tackle for the tax repeat outside of the ICAI papers which I have done inside out.

Which ACCA/CPA papers are similar and where can I find these papers?

Thanks

I'm only familiar with FR so:
ACCA paper F7 Financial Reporting and P2 Corporate Reporting (both Int variant)
CPA is Prof2 Corporate Reporting.
From a quick google I'd say for the others:
ACCA F6 Taxation (Irish variant)
ACCA F5 Performance management for SFMA and P5 Advanced Performance Mgmt (SFMA)
ACCA F9 Financial Mgmt (SFMA) and P4 Adv Financial Mgmt (SFMA)
ACCA F8 Auditing (Irish Variant)

Sunny84 · 20-08-2010 06:34PM

R0N BURGUNDY wrote: »

lol - just reading the exam report here for fr:

"This EPS question was poorly answered overall with an average of 6.7 / 18 marks (37%)."

lol - fu<king hell. if half the dublin class didnt have the solution in front of them, im sure the average would have been alot lower ffs.

Where is the examiners report for CAP2? Can you post a link to it here, or even the actual report if you have a copy. I would like to see what it says! :eek:

Thanks!

levi · 20-08-2010 10:57PM

daddydick wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm wondering which exam papers should I tackle for the tax repeat outside of the ICAI papers which I have done inside out.

Which ACCA/CPA papers are similar and where can I find these papers?

Thanks

I'm lookin for more tax questions too!

leanne249 · 21-08-2010 12:09AM

Sunny84 wrote: »

Where is the examiners report for CAP2? Can you post a link to it here, or even the actual report if you have a copy. I would like to see what it says! :eek:

Thanks!

Here you go!

SL10 · 21-08-2010 01:34PM

Did anyone go to the meeting today? How did it go?

seven-iron · 21-08-2010 02:27PM

Well, I knew this session would have a slim chance of being actually useful. However with a small sense of optimism, I went along as like everyone else who attended, my efforts at these repeats will dictate what will happen in my career for the next few years at the very least.

Sadly, my suspicions were right. This session held by the education officer was laughable. It might be just me, but how can someone who is not an accountant give feedback on accountancy exams.

Also, this chap, (who's name I dont want to remember) was massively insulting to everyone who showed up. For instance, one of his main pieces of advice was to prepare a study plan. You dont need to say that to graduates. Period. His constant passing remarks to his own time studying for his MBA made me think he was just trying to justify his own self-worth to us.

Secondly, for anyone who wasnt there today, im going to explain his reasoning for the drop in pass rates (65% to 35% for all four). His logic was that a large percentile of students last year 'barely' scraped through, which lifted pass rates. In his words "they were lucky". Now I dont know about you, but luck should not come into the equation in obtaining any professional qualification.

Now I'm not having a rant as I knew I was not going to get some magical answer today. Even so, it would have been nice to have gotten some sort of sincere talk (not a lecture) from someone who has been through this. Someone who has felt the pain of sitting silently in a packed RDS not knowing the answer to a ten marker which could make or break your pass.

Instead we get the education officer who wont admit when theres a flaw in the system. He didnt seem to have an issue with some people having an answer to the EPS question and others not. One honest soul rightly said "I would have passed FR if I had that solution but it still wouldnt have been a genuine pass". Yet Mr. MBA saw no issue with the whole thing.

To finish, good luck everyone in the repeats. It is stressful but what can you do. Its not forever so a good focused effort will get you over the line.

smcgiff · 21-08-2010 02:53PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Secondly, for anyone who wasnt there today, im going to explain his reasoning for the drop in pass rates (65% to 35% for all four). His logic was that a large percentile of students last year 'barely' scraped through, which lifted pass rates. In his words "they were lucky".

For this to fully explain the drop from 65% to 35%, statistically, would make winning the lotto two weeks in a row look more plausible. :rolleyes:

Sean Bateman · 21-08-2010 02:57PM

Not sure I agree with the above. I found it valuable. Some people need a reality check. There are three reasons people failed these exams. 1. They're lazy and hadn't done the work. Solution - Do the f..king work. 2. They're as thick as pig s..t. Solution - Stop trying to be an accountant. 3. They've done the work, they're not thick but something else is preventing them from passing these exams. Today's session focussed on Category 3. Stress, time management, handwriting, not answering the question and regurgitating generic answers seem to be the main issues. Jesus, apparently there were Financial Reporting students using company names and figures from revision packs rather than the actual question! And people with other issues (e.g. health etc) were urged to contact the Institute.

As for the pass rates, what he said makes sense. The change in the average grades is relatively small but the change in the overall pass rates is relatively large. That can only mean that last year a lot of people 'just about passed' and that this year a lot of people 'only just failed'.

And the Financial Reporting examiner was fired, so they did take the EPS question issue seriously.

Folks, I'm no Institute apologist but some of the nonsense posted on these threads can't be taken as gospel. One such myth is the 'conspiracy theory' that the Insitutute want to make more money from repeat exam fees. That was blown out of the water today. They LOSE money on these repeats. And professional subs over someone's working life are obviously worth more to the Institute than one year's exam fees.

People (including me) need to look at themselves rather than blaming the Institute.

Prezatch · 21-08-2010 03:20PM

Hey guys, what time is the institutes audit grind at this weekend?

Foxtrol · 21-08-2010 03:46PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

One such myth is the 'conspiracy theory' that the Insitutute want to make more money from repeat exam fees. That was blown out of the water today. They LOSE money on these repeats. And professional subs over someone's working life are obviously worth more to the Institute than one year's exam fees.

Im sorry but that excuse was a load of crap. Most of the costs for repeats are sunk costs (eg. RDS, invigilators, setting the paper etc) with very few variable costs. By failing a lot of people in the high 40% bracket compared to previous years (what the guy today said happened) they get €100 per exam plus €100 per revision course. They know the majority that borderline failed will more than likely pass next time and thus it wont really effect their future revenue, Therefore in the short term they have basically increased their income from repeats while seeing very little movement in their costs. By also changing their recommendation on paid repeat leave they aren't overly affecting the firms (especially the larger, overstaffed big 4). The only people that comes out of this situation poorly is the student.

I sat through the meeting today & have to say it wasn't great. It was good to hear that the FR examiner was sacked but apart from that I heard too many mights, maybe's and should's such as "We might be changing tax to be the first exam", "You might receive your breakdown of marks & tutorial report before your repeats", "You should have sample answers to the exams you sat in the next ten days". I understand the rational behind why there was such short notice for this meeting but for them to call it when they don't have solid answers for us is pointless.

I'd also add that the Cassi guy didn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence. I'm obviously not privy to what goes on behind closed doors but this was a failed opportunity for Cassi to be the voice of the students they are supposed to represent and to call out the Institute on the farcical aspects of these exams and to demand that improvements are made.

Sean Bateman · 21-08-2010 03:58PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Im sorry but that excuse was a load of crap. Most of the costs for repeats are sunk costs (eg. RDS, invigilators, setting the paper etc) with very few variable costs. By failing a lot of people in the high 40% bracket compared to previous years (what the guy today said happened) they get €100 per exam plus €100 per revision course. They know the majority that borderline failed will more than likely pass next time and thus it wont really effect their future revenue and therefore they have basically increased their income from repeats while seeing very little movement in their costs. By also changing their recommendation on paid repeat leave they aren't overly affecting the firms (especially the larger, overstaffed big 4). The only people that comes out of this situation poorly is the student.

I sat through the meeting today & have to say it wasn't great. It was good to hear that the FR examiner was sacked but apart from that I heard too many mights, maybe's and should's such as "We might be changing tax to be the first exam", "You might receive your breakdown of marks & tutorial report before your repeats", "You should have sample answers to the exams you sat in the next ten days". I understand the rational behind why there was such short notice for this meeting but for them to call it when they don't have solid answers for us is pointless.

I'd also add that the Cassi guy didn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence. I'm obviously not privy to what goes on behind closed doors but this was a failed opportunity for Cassi to be the voice of the students they are supposed to represent and to call out the Institute on the farcical aspects of these exams and to demand that improvements are made.

What farcical aspects?

My issue is with the 'victim culture' among some people there today (and here in this thread).

We all failed at least one exam for one of the three reasons I outlined above.

We need to deal with it.

You're not seriously telling me that you believe that the Institute are deliberately failing people as a money making exercise. The guy today (and his assistant) were adamant that this year's results are a financial disaster for the Insititute. Do you really not believe her anecdote about the CEO turning pale when he heard the CAP2 repeats would cost the Institute €1,000,000? This is the victim culture. It's ridiculous. People want to blame the Institute, Fianna Fail or Uncle Tom Cobbly for their failure. The fact is, you and I failed because we're either lazy or stupid, or else because we made a dogs dinner of the exam on the day. There's no 'smoking gun' here.

Foxtrol · 21-08-2010 04:16PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

What farcical aspects?

My issue is with the 'victim culture' among some people there today (and here in this thread).

We all failed at least one exam for one of the three reasons I outlined above.

We need to deal with it.

You're not seriously telling me that you believe that the Institute are deliberately failing people as a money making exercise. The guy today (and his assistant) were adamant that this year's results are a financial disaster for the Insititute. Do you really not believe her anecdote about the CEO turning pale when he heard the CAP2 repeats would cost the Institute €1,000,000? This is the victim culture. It's ridiculous. People want to blame the Institute, Fianna Fail or Uncle Tom Cobbly for their failure. The fact is, you and I failed because we're either lazy or stupid, or else because we made a dogs dinner of the exam on the day. There's no 'smoking gun' here.

No im not saying theres a conspiracy or that they intentionally failed people, what I'm saying is that it was complete crap when they stated that they will be making a greater loss with the larger number of people failing their first sitting. Now if the fail rate is continued in the repeats then yes I agree it could be a potential disaster for them between long term fees & bad will from students and firms.

I've clearly stated why I think what they said today was either a lie or completely misleading (repeat costs are majority sunk cost vs higher revenue with fails) so as a budding accountant can you now please explain to me how its possible for the ICAI to be making a greater loss on the repeats with more people failing (and please dont say "I believe what they told me")?

Sean Bateman · 21-08-2010 05:05PM

It's a combination of the cost of the repeat and the opportunity cost of a high number of people not going on to FAE.

Roughly 1,600 students sat the CAP2's. The 2010/2011 FAE fees are just over €4,000. Only 35% of students haved moved on to FAE. That's 65% who haven't, and a potential loss of revenue this year of approximately €4.16 million. If people don't move on to FAE and stagnate at CAP2 level paying the odd €100 here and there to resit exams before eventually being fired, the Institute lose out bigtime.

Anyone who thinks this is all one big conspiracy has been spending too much time with Jim Corr.

smcgiff · 21-08-2010 05:56PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Not sure I agree with the above.

It cannot be (or is very highly unlikely) to be the sole reason for such a fall in the pass rates. He would have had to admit the exam this sitting was harder (even marginally) for that explanation to work - did he?

Foxtrol · 21-08-2010 06:05PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

It's a combination of the cost of the repeat and the opportunity cost of a high number of people not going on to FAE.

Roughly 1,600 students sat the CAP2's. The 2010/2011 FAE fees are just over €4,000. Only 35% of students haved moved on to FAE. That's 65% who haven't, and a potential loss of revenue this year of approximately €4.16 million. If people don't move on to FAE and stagnate at CAP2 level paying the odd €100 here and there to resit exams before eventually being fired, the Institute lose out bigtime.

Anyone who thinks this is all one big conspiracy has been spending too much time with Jim Corr.

So you're agreeing with my last post then. They're making more money on the repeat exams themselves and will only make this "€1,000,000 loss" if the failure rate is kept up.

This topic only arose in the meeting due to a girl asking if it was conflict of interests for the ICAI to mark exams which they could potentially manipulate in order to make money. No one said they were but they also avoided answering the question very well.

Foxtrol · 21-08-2010 06:23PM

smcgiff wrote: »

It cannot be (or is very highly unlikely) to be the sole reason for such a fall in the pass rates. He would have had to admit the exam this sitting was harder (even marginally) for that explanation to work - did he?

No he refused to admit that this year was harder. He actually even went as far as to deny that the CAP's are harder than the Prof's, the higher failure rate is purely down to it being open book and there being no compensation.

prinz · 21-08-2010 07:26PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Today's session focussed on Category 3. Stress, time management, handwriting, not answering the question and regurgitating generic answers seem to be the main issues. Jesus, apparently there were Financial Reporting students using company names and figures from revision packs rather than the actual question! And people with other issues (e.g. health etc) were urged to contact the Institute. People (including me) need to look at themselves rather than blaming the Institute.

What you said above is true... and this is what we heard, and rightly today. However what we didn't hear about is what causes a hell of a lot of the stress and issues with students, and personally one of the biggest, if not the biggest, is dealings with the Institute themselves,i.e. repeat failings on their behalf, which we didn't hear anything concrete about. A lot of the stress of the exams could be removed with some work on their side tbh. It would be a meaningful gesture if there hadn't been an almost identical talk last year. They came out with the identical lines, going foward this and that mistake won't happen again etc. Cop out as we have seen, as the same mistakes did happen again.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I sat through the meeting today & have to say it wasn't great. It was good to hear that the FR examiner was sacked but apart from that I heard too many mights, maybe's and should's such as "We might be changing tax to be the first exam", "You might receive your breakdown of marks & tutorial report before your repeats", "You should have sample answers to the exams you sat in the next ten days". I understand the rational behind why there was such short notice for this meeting but for them to call it when they don't have solid answers for us is pointless..

+1... excuses and weasel words. I thought it was ironic how he advised us a few times in 'couching' our answers with get out clauses such as 'it appears'/'it seems'/ etc when giving advice in written exam answers, seeing as how the Institute seem to be masters of the art. He had no end of advice for students on how to prepare themselves, yet when it came to answering questions on how the Institute prepare themselves everything was clothed in business speak, going forwards, reviews, hopes, mights, would likes........endless. Nothing concrete whatsoever. Just a rehash of the same talk given last year, and we saw this summer how much of a real effect all the plans for the future had.

Nothing made me laugh more than his repeated references to professionalism on the part of students, when it is professionalism which is lacking sorely when it comes to courses and exam prep. The second year running they had to sack someone preparing the CAP papers for using parts of questions from past papers, that smacks of unprofessionalism in my view. Added to that, the continual mistakes in notes and same papers and solutions. How professional is it that they can't proof read a bloody sample paper and solution.

smcgiff wrote: »

It cannot be (or is very highly unlikely) to be the sole reason for such a fall in the pass rates. He would have had to admit the exam this sitting was harder (even marginally) for that explanation to work - did he?

Quite the opposite. Repeatedly denied any rise in difficulty. Basically shifted the blame entirely on to students, including denying that some groups having the solution to an 18 mark question in Fin Rep had a bearing on the pass rate, apparently their research showed those who scored well on that question scored well overall, and those who didn't score well tended not to score well overall so obviously their cock up had no real bearing on pass rates.

Which of course again was funny considering how prior to this he had been banging on about the importance of staying calm, confidence, focus........ I know how calm and confident I would have been approaching the rest of the Fin Rep paper if I knew I had the best part of 18 marks in the bag in a couple of minutes, having just to basically transcribe an answer and slot in the appropriate figures. :rolleyes:

Pisco Sour · 21-08-2010 08:05PM

prinz wrote: »

What you said above is true... and this is what we heard, and rightly today. However what we didn't hear about is what causes a hell of a lot of the stress and issues with students, and personally one of the biggest, if not the biggest, is dealings with the Institute themselves,i.e. repeat failings on their behalf, which we didn't hear anything concrete about. A lot of the stress of the exams could be removed with some work on their side tbh. It would be a meaningful gesture if there hadn't been an almost identical talk last year. They came out with the identical lines, going foward this and that mistake won't happen again etc. Cop out as we have seen, as the same mistakes did happen again.

+1... excuses and weasel words. I thought it was ironic how he advised us a few times in 'couching' our answers with get out clauses such as 'it appears'/'it seems'/ etc when giving advice in written exam answers, seeing as how the Institute seem to be masters of the art. He had no end of advice for students on how to prepare themselves, yet when it came to answering questions on how the Institute prepare themselves everything was clothed in business speak, going forwards, reviews, hopes, mights, would likes........endless. Nothing concrete whatsoever. Just a rehash of the same talk given last year, and we saw this summer how much of a real effect all the plans for the future had.

Nothing made me laugh more than his repeated references to professionalism on the part of students, when it is professionalism which is lacking sorely when it comes to courses and exam prep. The second year running they had to sack someone preparing the CAP papers for using parts of questions from past papers, that smacks of unprofessionalism in my view. Added to that, the continual mistakes in notes and same papers and solutions. How professional is it that they can't proof read a bloody sample paper and solution.

Quite the opposite. Repeatedly denied any rise in difficulty. Basically shifted the blame entirely on to students, including denying that some groups having the solution to an 18 mark question in Fin Rep had a bearing on the pass rate, apparently their research showed those who scored well on that question scored well overall, and those who didn't score well tended not to score well overall so obviously their cock up had no real bearing on pass rates.

Which of course again was funny considering how prior to this he had been banging on about the importance of staying calm, confidence, focus........ I know how calm and confident I would have been approaching the rest of the Fin Rep paper if I knew I had the best part of 18 marks in the bag in a couple of minutes, having just to basically transcribe an answer and slot in the appropriate figures. :rolleyes:

They really are a shambles! Denying that exams are getting harder despite a 32% drop from 2008 to 2010 is laughable. What does he think, that the students are suddenly since 2009 onwards of a more stupid variety?!

prinz · 21-08-2010 08:10PM

04072511 wrote: »

They really are a shambles! Denying that exams are getting harder despite a 32% drop from 2008 to 2010 is laughable. What does he think, that the students are suddenly since 2009 onwards of a more stupid variety?!

It's not harder it's just 'different' :pac: No difference between the difficulty levels, just the format.

Pisco Sour · 21-08-2010 08:12PM

prinz wrote: »

It's not harder it's just 'different' :pac: No difference between the difficulty levels, just the format.

Yep, it is harder to pass but it is not a harder exam! Yep makes perfect sense to me!!:rolleyes:

Sean Bateman · 21-08-2010 09:44PM

04072511 wrote: »

Yep, it is harder to pass but it is not a harder exam! Yep makes perfect sense to me!!:rolleyes:

Given that there was compensation in 2008 and there isn't now, it makes perfect sense. People who got 40% in an exam in 2008 may have passed the exam. People who got 40% in an exam in 2010 definitely failed the exam. This is the salient point.

Odats · 21-08-2010 10:33PM

Just done abit of digging going through the Examiner reports of the previous Prof 3's to analyse the whole compensation factor so judging by the following percentages alot of people wouldn't have passed first time round at that level including myself (I'll admit it just Auditing btw)
So based on the examiners here's what figures were given pass rate per individual papers of candidates getting greater than 50%
2008 Summer sitting: Advanced Financial Accounting 79.7%
All other subjects were conveniently not given as AFAIK alot benefitted from compensation on the Auditing and MABF exam that year which there was alot of uproar about.

2007 Summer sitting: Advanced Financial Accounting 66% (71.8% June 06)
Auditing 41.9%
MABF 90% greater than 40% i.e. in compensation zone as the examiner report puts it
Tax :not given
2007 Autumn sitting: Auditing 43%
Advanced FA 61.9% (Autumn 06 64.7%)

So based on these figures assuming the the Auditing pass mark percentage per paper remained consistent there would of been a conservative estimate of in or around 45% as a pass mark for Summer 2008 if no compensation had been in place.

Therefore judging by this analysis which is just a quick one I believe the quality of the candidate sitting the exams has not reduced but compensation is a huge factor and so is open book as it increases the breadth of the syllabus thus making it more difficult.

Also there has been anecdotal evidence of people getting through the Prof 3's on one good result and quite normal of people getting through with compensation on 2 papers.

mu993ts · 23-08-2010 12:54AM

There’s over 2,600 posts with over 190,000 views across just 6 threads, so if anyone wants to get an idea of what to expect from a CA here’s the general picture:
The institute “is a joke”, “unprofessional”, “make it up as they go along”, “all the solutions which seem to be given out by the institute have errors in them”.
They’ve sacked examiners twice in the last two years for “half an exam hall having the answer verbatim”;
There’s just so much moaning and ranting and moaning and ranting and some more moaning about everything from having to go to lectures to having to study, about how hard the exams are and how difficult each subject is, some of which is done during office hours when you’re supposed to be working.
Some come on here looking for help because they attended few or no classes and want to find out what they missed or to announce that they’ve just come back from their two week holiday in the sun (taken during study leave) and are now refreshed enough to start studying.
People are complaining that those who passed in previous years had an easier ride than those sitting exams now. Pass rates are very high in previous years but they’re very low now.
I looked for similar threads contributed to by ACCA’s and didn’t find anything on this scale. The lack thereof suggesting that ACCA is a professional institute, students get stuck in and get on with the job of preparing for twice yearly exams. Exams and pass rates appear to be fairly consistent and an appropriate level.
Therefore if I’m hiring I should stay away from qualified CAs (they had it too easy) and part-qualifieds (they’re lazy and just not able for it), and instead hire ACCAs.
This is the public domain lads, nice one!!

prinz · 23-08-2010 09:10AM

mu993ts wrote: »

This is the public domain lads, nice one!!

Thanks. Great contribution.

CAP2 Exams

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