Ardoyne and Utter Hypocrisy

paky · 14-07-2010 05:42PM #1

I've nothing but sysmpathy for the people of ardoyne. I honestly cant believe that nationalists in the ardoyne are being made out to be the bad guys.
The orange order will be the ones who will drag northern ireland back into conflict. There nothing but a fascist organisation that the police happily back up by spending millions of pounds every year just as long as they can march.
The 12th offers nothing for the people of northern ireland as a whole.
Does anyone else agree?

super_furry · 14-07-2010 05:44PM

paky wrote: »

The 12th offers nothing for the people of northern ireland as a whole.
Does anyone else agree?

Nope. It's a very important expression of a community's cultural identity.

Denerick · 14-07-2010 05:44PM

No.

Its obvious that a few young scumbags who will never have a job were looking for a row.

The people of Ireland are sick and tired of people who want to be offended.

P.S- Its time for Northern nationalists to grow the fúck up.

paky · 14-07-2010 05:49PM

Are you telling me by burning the tricolour, Irelands national flag, on top of a bonfire is part of someones cultural indentity?

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 05:49PM

I think that the OO should only march were the communities want them to. That is fair.

They should seek approval and engage in dialog with the nationalist community. They should not be allowed march were they are not wanted. These contentious marches, only a handful, go ahead merely as a display of triumphalism and bigotry, and serve as an "up yours" to the nationalist areas they march through as they are powerless to stop them.

Denerick · 14-07-2010 05:50PM

paky wrote: »

Are you telling me by burning the tricolour, Irelands national flag, on top of a bonfire is part of someones cultural indentity?

Is that any different from the nationalist mob burning the Union Jack?

Or is it one standard for your own and another for the other?

paky · 14-07-2010 05:52PM

I would challenge anyone from the south of ireland to go north for the 12th of july celebrations and see how welcome you will be.

Denerick · 14-07-2010 05:56PM

paky wrote: »

I would challenge anyone from the south of ireland to go north for the 12th of july celebrations and see how welcome you will be.

The OO manage just fine at Rossnaula. Or is that because they aren't met with a wall of anti Protestant bigotry?

I agree the chauvinism and jingoism of it all is pretty horrible, and its deliberately provocative when they march through Catholic areas like that. But the riotious reaction does not do anything for the Nationalist cause. The people who rioted are the kinds of little scumbags you wouldn't let your sister anywhere near.

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 05:58PM

I commend and applaud those who engaged in peaceful protest, and condemn the violence.

deliberately provocative when they march through Catholic areas like that

Do you think they should be allowed to do so?

Jaap · 14-07-2010 06:00PM

paky wrote: »

I would challenge anyone from the south of ireland to go north for the 12th of july celebrations and see how welcome you will be.

On the news on Monday a group from Sligo went to Brookeborough in Co. Fermanagh to witness the Twelfth celebrations there...they were at first afraid...but they seemed to be intrigued by it!!!

The Twelfth celebrations also extend to Donegal (Rossnowlagh) on the Saturday before the Twelfth...never any trouble there!!! Yes...there are parades in Donegal...and I repeat no trouble ever happens there!!!

silverharp · 14-07-2010 06:00PM

I dont think the nationalists have a leg to stand on, its a public road and I cant think of any sensible moral stance that says that people cant peaceably walk down a public road.

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 06:02PM

Jaap wrote: »

On the news on Monday a group from Sligo went to Brookeborough in Co. Fermanagh to witness the Twelfth celebrations there...they were at first afraid...but they seemed to be intrigued by it!!!

The Twelfth celebrations also extend to Donegal (Rossnowlagh) on the Saturday before the Twelfth...never any trouble there!!! Yes...there are parades in Donegal...and I repeat no trouble ever happens there!!!

The parades in Dún na nGall have no current relevance, it is not controlled by the British is it?

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 06:02PM

silverharp wrote: »

I dont think the nationalists have a leg to stand on, its a public road and I cant think of any sensible moral stance that says that people cant peaceably walk down a public road.

Would you let a KKK parade go through a black community? Would that be moral?

paky · 14-07-2010 06:04PM

So its acceptable for the PSNI to remove a peaceful protest by force and expect there to be no rioting? The PSNI represents one community in Northern Ireland, always has and always will.

Jaap · 14-07-2010 06:05PM

Denerick wrote: »

I agree the chauvinism and jingoism of it all is pretty horrible, and its deliberately provocative when they march through Catholic areas like that.

The Ardoyne geographics where the march is is like this....shopfronts on one side and about 20 houses on the other....a 100 metre strect of main arterial road with protestant areas at both ends of the 100 metre stretch!!
If the marches can walk along the road without any trouble at 9am in the morning without any rioting...why does voilence and vandalism enter the fray at 7pm-ish??? Maybe when the recreational rioters waken up out of their beds!!!
The parade was also restricted by the parades commission...limited numbers plus no music!!! Can people not walk home along an arterial route???

Rented Mule · 14-07-2010 06:06PM

It is incredible to me how ridiculous both sides are on the issue.

Jaap · 14-07-2010 06:07PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The parades in Dún na nGall have no current relevance, it is not controlled by the British is it?

I'm talking about Donegal not Dublin!!!

Denerick · 14-07-2010 06:08PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Would you let a KKK parade go through a black community? Would that be moral?

Nowhere near the same scale.

I don't know if the OO shouldn't be allowed to march through Catholic areas. Clearly it would be prudent if they stayed away.

A bit of historical perspective from our own side here. Before the Clontarf Monster meeting was called off, Danial O'Connell had broken his back to ensure the ralliers wouldn't interfere with the sizable Protestant community in the area in any way. In fact he ordered the ralliers to walk around the vicinity of the church (Adding 3 miles to a walk which for some people took them days to get to) etc. etc.

It'd be far better form if the OO did this of their own accord, but I don't think they will.

Either way, the Nationalist reaction was typically hysterically over the top. It was a rent a riot, an exaggerated sense of grievance.

The only people I feel sorry for out of this are the injured policemen who have to deal with this **** from certain members of the nationalist community who are intent on continuing to live in the dark ages.

paky · 14-07-2010 06:09PM

its not just ardoyne. derry seen the worst violence in years on the 12th. the nationalists fault i suppose

Jaap · 14-07-2010 06:09PM

silverharp wrote: »

I dont think the nationalists have a leg to stand on, its a public road and I cant think of any sensible moral stance that says that people cant peaceably walk down a public road.

It is a main arterial road that links a protestant area to protestant area...one side is all shopfronts for God sake...the parade also only takes about 5 minutes!!!
It would be a different story if it weaved through the Ardoyne estate!!! It just touches the fringes!!!

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 06:10PM

Nowhere near the same scale.

It is along the same lines. In this case it is religion, not skin color.

The OO have and always have shown a hatred towards Catholics.

Denerick · 14-07-2010 06:13PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It is along the same lines. In this case it is religion, not skin color.

The OO have and always have shown a hatred towards Catholics.

The Orange Order is much more diverse than the KKK. Thousands of Northern men have been a member and were not active bigots. The KKK was a terrorist organisation. The differences are vast.

There is good and bad in the OO. For many its just a family day out. For others its a chance to get one over the Catholics. But don't try and tell me there aren't plenty of Catholic groups that have nothing but contempt for Protestants - there is nothing in Northern Ireland that is free from the taint of sectarianism.

Jaap · 14-07-2010 06:13PM

paky wrote: »

its not just ardoyne. derry seen the worst violence in years on the 12th. the nationalists fault i suppose

5 shots were fired at police in Londonderry...recreational rioters again, with probably a few dissident republicans thrown in!!!
There is no justification...let them destroy their own areas...but I feel sorry for the residents who can not stand up to the rioters for fear of attack themselves!!!

LordSutch · 14-07-2010 06:14PM

paky wrote: »

I've nothing but sysmpathy for the people of ardoyne. I honestly cant believe that nationalists in the ardoyne are being made out to be the bad guys. The orange order will be the ones who will drag northern ireland back into conflict. There nothing but a fascist organisation that the police happily back up by spending millions of pounds every year just as long as they can march. The 12th offers nothing for the people of northern ireland as a whole. Does anyone else agree?

That's just rediculous, the Orange March was given permission by the parades commission of Northern Ireland, and the residents of the Ardoyne were aware of this. I would suggest that the obvious villians of the peace are some of the residents (and those bussed-in) who pelted the police with all types of missiles including Petrol Bombs & concrete bricks (real scum bags) :mad:

I am not an Orange supporter myself, but I commend the restraint of their followers who had every opportunity to retaliate by putting some bricks & petrol bombs back into the Ardoyne itself! > But thankfully this did not happen.

Rockfish · 14-07-2010 06:15PM

Denerick wrote: »

The Orange Order is much more diverse than the KKK. Thousands of Northern men have been a member and were not active bigots. The KKK was a terrorist organisation. The differences are vast.

There is good and bad in the OO. For many its just a family day out. For others its a chance to get one over the Catholics. But don't try and tell me there aren't plenty of Catholic groups that have nothing but contempt for Protestants - there is nothing in Northern Ireland that is free from the taint of sectarianism.

Ok then name a mass catholic group with such beliefs?

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 06:16PM

Denerick wrote: »

The Orange Order is much more diverse than the KKK. Thousands of Northern men have been a member and were not active bigots. The KKK was a terrorist organisation. The differences are vast.

There is good and bad in the OO. For many its just a family day out. For others its a chance to get one over the Catholics. But don't try and tell me there aren't plenty of Catholic groups that have nothing but contempt for Protestants - there is nothing in Northern Ireland that is free from the taint of sectarianism.

You said yourself that they should reroute, why don't they do that? Most nationalists have no issue if they march: were they are wanted.

Denerick · 14-07-2010 06:17PM

Rockfish wrote: »

Ok then name a mass catholic group with such beliefs?

The Ancient Order of Hibernians.

Wolfe Tone · 14-07-2010 06:19PM

Denerick wrote: »

The Ancient Order of Hibernians.

Much smaller in scale, and I don't seem to hear about them marching through protestant areas.

paky · 14-07-2010 06:23PM

Jaap wrote: »

5 shots were fired at police in Londonderry...recreational rioters again, with probably a few dissident republicans thrown in!!!
There is no justification...let them destroy their own areas...but I feel sorry for the residents who can not stand up to the rioters for fear of attack themselves!!!

I feel sorry for the nationalists in northern ireland. northern ireland is a sectarian state upheld by the british. as long as britain has involvment in northern ireland there will always be sectarianism there. plain and simple

dlofnep · 14-07-2010 06:23PM

It's amusing how those who don't live in areas which are overrun by Loyalists on the 12th, are apparently experts on what occurs and the mindset that surrounds it.

NSNO · 14-07-2010 06:25PM

paky wrote: »

I feel sorry for the nationalists in northern ireland. northern ireland is a sectarian state upheld by the british. as long as britain has involvment in northern ireland there will always be sectarianism there. plain and simple

Please tell me how the current power-sharing government and the state it governs is sectarian?

Ardoyne and Utter Hypocrisy

Comments