World Cup Draft Discussion Thread

redzerdrog · 19-06-2010 07:22PM

grrrrrrrrr i had a shortlist of 2 players and hoped 1 would make it to me but neither did give me a few mins now till i decide who to go with

The Volt · 19-06-2010 07:24PM

I've two I'll settle for gladly and neither are gone yet

Bounty Hunter · 19-06-2010 07:30PM

was hoping against hope that a Puskas or Cryuff would make it through to me (more likely the latter as i think he fits better with my team) but will now just have to hope my remaining picks that fit my current plans will still be available come no.18. no matter what in will get a quality addition but so far down the line i can not be guaranteed that it will be in the position i want. Not neccesarily becuase their will be no legends left that can fill that void but because id say that the best ones for it will be gone and by that stage deviating from my original plan may be more beneficial in terms of quality of player available to me.

Xavi6 · 19-06-2010 07:37PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

grrrrrrrrr i had a shortlist of 2 players and hoped 1 would make it to me but neither did give me a few mins now till i decide who to go with

If you could do it in the next ten it'd be sweet cause it's 2.40am and I've a game in the morning so will be heading off.

Cheers

The Volt · 19-06-2010 07:40PM

Heading out tonight, could I PM someone my pick preference? Ideally someone who's already picked.

redzerdrog · 19-06-2010 07:49PM

pick made!!!

Bounty Hunter · 19-06-2010 07:52PM

Maldini and Platini that rhyming pair were both at the top of my shortlist

... ahh well time for plan Z

Necronomicon · 19-06-2010 07:56PM

Voltwad PM me if you like, I'll probably be on sporadically throughout the evening.

redzerdrog · 19-06-2010 10:16PM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Maldini and Platini that rhyming pair were both at the top of my shortlist ... ahh well time for plan Z

after your last post i guessed that platini might have been one of your picks:pac:

The Volt · 20-06-2010 02:40AM

Pick made and PM sent.

Delighted with Shearer. I feel he's somewhat a dark horse in this round

eagle eye · 20-06-2010 03:03AM

I'm a huge Alan Shearer fan for many, many years and you will understand why if you look at my sig. I would never say anything bad about that pick because he is my favourite player ever but I'm not sure others will see it that way.

bamboozling · 20-06-2010 03:03AM

I'm sorry Voltwad but in my book picking Shearer is as bad a pick as Palacios in the first round. He's not even the best English striker in history let alone in the top 10 picks of legends in the world. While he was an excellent player, there is no doubt, to say he is a legend is simply wrong. When you look at what he achieved in his career is one League with Blackburn. Contrast that with what the picks before you have achieved and you have a stark picture.

Shearer had the chance to go to United in 1996 and become a legend but instead he chose to go to his hometown club and settle for less. The man could have achieved so much had he gone there yet at the end of the day Djimi Traore won more trophies than Alan Shearer did in his career. A baffling pick considering the alternatives available.

The Volt · 20-06-2010 03:04AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm a huge Alan Shearer fan for many, many years and you will understand why if you look at my sig. I would never say anything bad about that pick because he is my favourite player ever but I'm not sure others will see it that way.

Ah there may be bias against him and at the end of the day I probably wont make it to the latter stages of this but I've no problem paying tribute to an absolute legend. Even being an Everton fan, thinking of THAT volley :pac:

The Volt · 20-06-2010 03:11AM

bamboozling wrote: »

I'm sorry Voltwad but in my book picking Shearer is as bad a pick as Palacios in the first round. He's not even the best English striker in history let alone in the top 10 picks of legends in the world. While he was an excellent player, there is no doubt, to say he is a legend is simply wrong. When you look at what he achieved in his career is one League with Blackburn. Contrast that with what the picks before you have achieved and you have a stark picture.

Completely disagree. Shearer is an absolute legend in what is one of the highest quality leagues in the world. Nearly 1 in 2 for his country as far as goalscoring goes and to discredit his legendary status is simply ignorant.

Shearer had the chance to go to United in 1996 and become a legend but instead he chose to go to his hometown club and settle for less. The man could have achieved so much had he gone there yet at the end of the day Djimi Traore won more trophies than Alan Shearer did in his career. A baffling pick considering the alternatives available.

Forgive a man for choosing the place where he's from over United.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUpILud2sZI

He more than had the ability to take apart any defence in the world and even mentioning someone like Traore in the same sentence is ridiculous on your part.

Bounty Hunter · 20-06-2010 03:12AM

Shearer will be a good focal point for attacks for any team and does also bring goals, its very hard to criticise any player that will be drafted in this round as they are all going to be quality but yes it is arguable (even Volt admits this) that people could see other picks as better than big AL.

eagle eye · 20-06-2010 03:14AM

Voltwad wrote: »

Ah there may be bias against him and at the end of the day I probably wont make it to the latter stages of this but I've no problem paying tribute to an absolute legend. Even being an Everton fan, thinking of THAT volley :pac:

Yeah that was for Newcastle but I'll never forget it, think it was a Sunday wasn't it?

I was watching the game and it had gone a bit stale and then out of nowhere, bloody awesome. I looked for a youtube of it and they are all low quality except for this one, its the first one in this collection.

The Volt · 20-06-2010 03:22AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah that was for Newcastle but I'll never forget it, think it was a Sunday wasn't it?

I was watching the game and it had gone a bit stale and then out of nowhere, bloody awesome. I looked for a youtube of it and they are all low quality except for this one, its the first one in this collection.

We'd (Everton) gone 1-0 up. Yobo was sent off. We'd held on for aaages and out of nowhere with 5 minutes to go, BANG. **** me sideways >:( then Bellamy scores a deflected winner.

Anyway, that was just one match. Shearer's career and achievements can not be disregarded. He came up against quality opposition right up until the very end and always produced the goods

Xavi6 · 20-06-2010 03:28AM

I don't think Shearer is deserving of a place in the top 20 legends of the game. He was a great striker, don't get me wrong, but given the amount of amazing strikers that haven't been chosen yet then imo he's a poor choice. He definitely paid the price for loyalty when it comes to medals in the cabinet (he has one of any really value).

Having said all that, this is as much to do with how players fit a system than their individual capabilities so if Wor Al works for your side then happy days.

bamboozling · 20-06-2010 03:35AM

I still don't think Shearer is a legend in a football greatest player legend way. I think it's safe to say that the champions league and the world cup are the greatest stages a player can grace. Shearer played 2 seasons in the champions league in his career and did not distinguish himelf in any way, shape or form. Indeed in his first season in the champpions league he scored only once, from the penalty spot. Shearer played in one world cup, 1998, and again was pretty mediocre and outshone by an 18 year old.

I think the fact that we have been raised on a diet of English football and whichever foreign teams play in the champions league can give us an unrealistic assesment of a players true quality. This has happened with Shearer. If Shearer played abroad he would be shown up as slow, lacking finesse and that he was a hustle and bustle merchant. Let's not forget that this is the player Ruud Gullit referred to as "the most overrated player I have ever seen." Sums up for me why Shearer is no legend of world football.

The Volt · 20-06-2010 03:38AM

bamboozling wrote: »

I still don't think Shearer is a legend in a football greatest player legend way. I think it's safe to say that the champions league and the world cup are the greatest stages a player can grace. Shearer played 2 seasons in the champions league in his career and did not distinguish himelf in any way, shape or form. Indeed in his first season in the champpions league he scored only once, from the penalty spot. Shearer played in one world cup, 1998, and again was pretty mediocre and outshone by an 18 year old.

I think the fact that we have been raised on a diet of English football and whichever foreign teams play in the champions league can give us an unrealistic assesment of a players true quality. This has happened with Shearer. If Shearer played abroad he would be shown up as slow, lacking finesse and that he was a hustle and bustle merchant. Let's not forget that this is the player Ruud Gullit referred to as "the most overrated player I have ever seen." Sums up for me why Shearer is no legend of world football.

The same Ruud Guillit who could have relegated Newcastle had he stayed in charge? I could argue that with things that the late, great Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor etc have said about the man. I shouldn't have to point to his Premier League goalscoring record again but seriously, he's come up against the best and proven his worth

bamboozling · 20-06-2010 03:51AM

Voltwad wrote: »

The same Ruud Guillit who could have relegated Newcastle had he stayed in charge? I could argue that with things that the late, great Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor etc have said about the man. I shouldn't have to point to his Premier League goalscoring record again but seriously, he's come up against the best and proven his worth

Like I said earlier he was a great striker. But for me he came up against some of the best but he was never tested against the great defenders of Italy like Maldini or Spanish ones like Hierro. That's why for me there is something missing with Shearer. He was never tested in Europe and and that is crucial to the testament of any modern day player.

Would Fernando Torres have got the recognition he now has had he stayed at Atletico? No he would be a club legend and known throughout Spain as a quality player but not known as one of the best strikers in the world. Which is what Shearer is the English equivalant of.

He was pick no. 65 in the World Soccer greatest players of 20th century. And he had two crucial things in his favour, his career was easily remembered as he was at the peak of his powers and the majority of voters were English football fans. He was a great player but not a legend of the game. You really had so many better choices available to you Voltwad. That's the reason I think it's a bad pick. Nothing anti Shearer or anything of the sort I just think you could do so much better.

Mr.Nice Guy · 20-06-2010 04:06AM

bamboozling wrote:

Like I said earlier he was a great striker. But for me he came up against some of the best but he was never tested against the great defenders of Italy like Maldini or Spanish ones like Hierro. That's why for me there is something missing with Shearer. He was never tested in Europe and and that is crucial to the testament of any modern day player.

Don't like talking about players that haven't been picked yet but I think it should be noted he won the Golden Boot at Euro 96 and England beat Spain (featuring Hierro) along the way in that tournament. If memory serves me right Hierro missed in the shoot-out that day and Shearer scored. :pac:

Shearer wasn't someone I thought would be picked tbh but he is still a very dangerous striker and he would definitely be regarded as an English legend. The top scorer in Premier League history, by some distance, is not to be sniffed at.

Anyways, as Xavi touched on, it's not the individual parts that will win the game but the sum of the parts.

eagle eye · 20-06-2010 04:36AM

bamboozling wrote: »

Like I said earlier he was a great striker. But for me he came up against some of the best but he was never tested against the great defenders of Italy like Maldini or Spanish ones like Hierro. That's why for me there is something missing with Shearer. He was never tested in Europe and and that is crucial to the testament of any modern day player.

Would Fernando Torres have got the recognition he now has had he stayed at Atletico? No he would be a club legend and known throughout Spain as a quality player but not known as one of the best strikers in the world. Which is what Shearer is the English equivalant of.

He was pick no. 65 in the World Soccer greatest players of 20th century. And he had two crucial things in his favour, his career was easily remembered as he was at the peak of his powers and the majority of voters were English football fans. He was a great player but not a legend of the game. You really had so many better choices available to you Voltwad. That's the reason I think it's a bad pick. Nothing anti Shearer or anything of the sort I just think you could do so much better.

This is hugely anti-Shearer even though you try to claim its not and the reason I'm saying that is you are pointing to everything that you want as reasons why he shouldn't be considered a top player and using a quote from Ruud Gullit of all people but you don't mention that Shearer did in fact prove himself in elite company winning the Golden Boot in Euro '96. His goalscoring record in the Premier League is just outstanding too. He is one of the rare few to have won the PFA player of the year award twice, and he has been lauded by almost everybody from Alex Ferguson to Kenny Dalglish, Bobby Robson and even Pele.

titan18 · 20-06-2010 12:23PM

Sorry to bring this back up again, but no matter what way you look at it,it's unfair.One end had the advantage in 6 out of the 11 rounds including the 1st round and legends round, while the other had the advantage in 5 of those round including the non-WC player round.I think that's unfair and I don't see how anyone can see it as fair tbh.

My suggestion is to increase the draft by 3 rounds,1 extra defender,1 extra midfielder and 1 extra forward and add in an extra legend round at either 10 or 12.I think that balances out the draft a bit more.

Bounty Hunter · 20-06-2010 12:34PM

titan18 wrote: »

Sorry to bring this back up again, but no matter what way you look at it,it's unfair.One end had the advantage in 6 out of the 11 rounds including the 1st round and legends round, while the other had the advantage in 5 of those round including the non-WC player round.I think that's unfair and I don't see how anyone can see it as fair tbh.

My suggestion is to increase the draft by 3 rounds,1 extra defender,1 extra midfielder and 1 extra forward and add in an extra legend round at either 10 or 12.I think that balances out the draft a bit more.

honestly i kind of agree that it isnt fair but it was never really going to be 100% even with an uneven amount of rounds and the legends and first round being started by the same posters in both rounds. However at this stage we reluctantley have to consider it the luck of the draw as how would adding extra rounds really work? we all include a few subs perhaps and even if we did the later extra rounds with the exception of perhaps the 2nd legends round would make no major difference as they would be lesser players than those already gone.

As one of the people who was drawn near the end of the order id obviously be happy if we had another legends round but anything more that is a bit much imo and even though it would leave us with 1 extra player, it could mean people could plug any gaps in their team made by drafting poorly or whatever and the extra one could just be considerd the sides super sub.

if people are okay with the idea of 1 final legends rd at the end then awesome if not I think the whole discussion should really be put to bed now as it cant really be of any benefit at this stage.

Mr. Guappa · 20-06-2010 12:43PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't think Shearer is deserving of a place in the top 20 legends of the game. He was a great striker, don't get me wrong, but given the amount of amazing strikers that haven't been chosen yet then imo he's a poor choice. He definitely paid the price for loyalty when it comes to medals in the cabinet (he has one of any really value).

Having said all that, this is as much to do with how players fit a system than their individual capabilities so if Wor Al works for your side then happy days.

I thought that we were picking World Cup legends? Shearer played in one World Cup, scoring 2 goals (one was a penalty), very poor pick IMO.

Xavi6 · 20-06-2010 12:47PM

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I thought that we were picking World Cup legends? Shearer played in one World Cup, scoring 2 goals (one was a penalty), very poor pick IMO.

I agree with that but each to their own. I'm sure the point will be argued anyway when the teams come up against each other.

Too much moaning going on here anyway so it's taking the fun out if it. I'll gladly move to 20th in the picks from here on in if it means a few people stfu.

Necronomicon · 20-06-2010 12:48PM

I'd be completely against increasing the draft to be honest. And not because of where I'm placed before anybody suggests bias. I think having two legends in the XI would be excessive.

The only thing I can think of that might balance things out is having Round 9 start at pick 20, i.e. eagle eye ends the legends round and begins Round 8. I finish Round 8 but instead of having a double pick, eagle eye also begins Round 9. Then for the remainder it resumes back to double picks. This way I end up with the last pick in the game overall, which is probably fair since I had the very first.

Minto · 20-06-2010 02:12PM

Pick made and PM'd!

Necronomicon · 20-06-2010 02:14PM

Bad news Minto, Nesta was already picked in Round 4 - he hasn't retired.

World Cup Draft Discussion Thread

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