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Is it a kick in the face for irish people to take Ivor Callely's excuse

  • 03-06-2010 10:17am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 23


    Is it maybe a bridge to far for the Irish people to take the excuse "I didn't do anything wrong" in relation to Ivor's claiming of expenses?

    I'd just like to pose the question that just because something might not be legally wrong, there is a moral hazard when it comes to this sort of thing and that seems to be left on the platform time and time again when it comes to the matter of political expenses.

    It seems to get more far fetched with every new revaltion and are the Irish tax payer's the most gutless bunch of mice on the planet?

    My answer would be no cause Irish people are the the finest there are but rather the politicians are maknig the rules up to suit themselves.

    Interested to know what 'ya think and if ya can take it?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    We should be used to this kind of response. Look back at John O'Donoghues self serving resignation speech and the pathetic attempt by Cooper Flynn to get a standing ovation going at the end of the speech.
    Says a lot about the standard and moral respectability of these politicians (generally FF) that this this whole episode and his speech in the Seanad yesterday do not surprise me in the least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    He may have been within the rules but the rules are a joke.

    It's public money, all expenses should be vouched and there should be no 'allowances'.

    Are we supposed to believe that these guys are so busy and important that they can't ask for a receipt?

    I'd love to see a breakdown of which politicos use the most Oireachtas envelopes too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's the Irish "cute hoor" culture - if you do something which isn't technically wrong, or if you can find a technicality to avoid being found wrong, then it must be OK.

    Despite decades of Roman Catholic oppression we have somehow managed to miss one of the only good messages of the RCC - "Do unto others..."


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Politics in this country in the eyes of the people is damaged badly. What Ivor Calleley is doing is wrong and is dragging the reputation of politics event further into the gutter (as if we thought that was possible!).

    If Cowan has any leadership qualities at all he would expel Calleley from Fianna Fail and publically demand that he resign. Then again does wee Ivor have something over Brian or others within the inner circles of the soldiers of destiny ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    We have been kicked in the face so often and for so long by those we elect to public office, that the Callely incident is water off a ducks back at this stage. We have no pride, spine, self - belief or that ability to translate criticism into action that others have. And this is encouraged by the media because a weak people are easier to rule and control.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Sulmac


    We have been kicked in the face so often and for so long by those we elect to public office, that the Callely incident is water off a ducks back at this stage. We have no pride, spine, self - belief or that ability to translate criticism into action that others have. And this is encouraged by the media because a weak people are easier to rule and control.

    What adds insult to injury is that Callely wasn't even elected, he was one of the Taoiseach's nominees.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Sulmac wrote: »
    What adds insult to injury is that Callely wasn't even elected, he was one of the Taoiseach's nominees.

    F*ck that makes it worse:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    /off topic - Gandalf was deadtiger? :eek:

    On topic, I really should care and on one level I do but on another, I can't be arsed. I think Callely will get his marching orders though, if only for the sake of the FF party looking good (less bad).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    seamus wrote: »
    It's the Irish "cute hoor" culture - if you do something which isn't technically wrong, or if you can find a technicality to avoid being found wrong, then it must be OK.

    Despite decades of Roman Catholic oppression we have somehow managed to miss one of the only good messages of the RCC - "Do unto others..."


    No it ****ing isnt.


    Please everyone stop with this utter bull****


    "Irish Begrudgers" "Irish Cute Hoor"


    This same thing happens everywhere there is a politician with access to an expense account


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    It's the Irish "cute hoor" culture

    I wonder what caused the English expense scandal then? Is Irishness spreading?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    imo, this is just the typical attitude of FF in its entirety. They feel that they are the power and can do what they like. Even then they think they are answerable to no-one, not even their boss when they are asked to explain themselves. They just look on with a smug grin.

    Nice leadership team we have there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    mike65 wrote: »
    /off topic - Gandalf was deadtiger? :eek:

    On topic, I really should care and on one level I do but on another, I can't be arsed. I think Callely will get his marching orders though, if only for the sake of the FF party looking good (less bad).

    the way that **** Beverly Cooper Flynn got her marching orders? ie let back in after us goldfish forgot about it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Pittens wrote: »
    I wonder what caused the English expense scandal then? Is Irishness spreading?
    The "cute hoor" thing isn't the expense scandal in the first place, it's the reaction to being caught. In the UK, politicians end up resigning or apologising or otherwise looking like complete plebs.

    Over here we say, "I didn't do anything wrong" and then refuse to talk about it. Willie O'Dea did the exact same thing until evidence came out to show that he infact *did* do something wrong, and then he resigned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,634 ✭✭✭flutered


    it is just what i expect from a f.f. politician, and i am not too sure about the other breeds,


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭stantheman8


    Seems like an obvious question?
    Like many others posting here I'm enraged to see my hard earned tax euros being siphoned off by these spineless leeches.

    I've had enough.
    But being angry and not doing something about it doesn't solve anything.

    What I'd like to understand is how we stand up to these cheating b@stards and make sure that the government - and indeed all politicians - hear the message, loud and clear that Irish people are sick to the core of the abuse of taxpayers money.

    Most obvious choice is not to elect them again - which poses the question if the rest are any better ...but that's another day's work.

    I tried leaving a message on Callely's website but, conveniently, that is not possible.

    Apart from organising marches on the streets what other options do we have as a public to ensure that this behaviour is dealt with so forcefully that it will put the fear of God in anyone considering pulling cash out of our coffers/pockets in the future?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Callely of course isn't elected. This will be his last hurrah and then he'll have just the odd pension or three to keep him going.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    This seems to be much more than a solely Irish thing. Look at the wholesale trough feeding frenzy in the European Parliament and Commission, the expenses scandal in the UK and, no doubt those we haven't heard about in other EU countries. It almost appears that throughout much of Europe politicians have evolved into a class that holds it's electorate in thinly veiled contempt. Perhaps that's why the feeling is mutual?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Fair play to the citizen http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0603/callelyi.html

    Least someone has a spine


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Least someone has a spine

    Obviously not Batt O'Keeffe
    Minister for Enterprise and Innovation Batt O'Keeffe has said he understands people's annoyance over Senator Callely's expenses.

    However, he said 'generally speaking' deputies and senators incur a lot of expenses due to travel, overnight stays and general daily maintenance.

    Does O'Keeffe just not want to get the fact that Callely lives in Dublin ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    The real problem is that cute-hoorism isn't just rampant in Irish politics, it is integral to the whole society.

    Almost everybody cheats in some way or another and that's why hardly anyone can stand up with good conscience, point the finger and demand change ...they might get found out themselves. :D

    Best keep shtumm and cheat some more to get your own back.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    course it wasn't Batt O'Thief. It was someone with a functioning brain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Apparently someone called to a copshop but was told it wasn't within their remit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Still though,nothing will be done by the Irish people so behaviour like this will continue.
    "Ah sure Jaysus,Id hate to complain"
    They have us well trained.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Almost everybody cheats in some way or another and that's why hardly anyone can stand up with good conscience, point the finger and demand change ...they might get found out themselves.

    Rubbish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭deanh


    As this West Cork house is supposed to be a second home, it will be interesting to check if he has paid the €200 levy, or did he claim that on expenses?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    "Ah sure Jaysus,Id hate to complain"

    No, nobody ever complains.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Pittens wrote: »
    No, nobody ever complains.

    No,nobody ever complains effectually.
    e.g:to the barman,partner,friends,on boards etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    deanh wrote: »
    As this West Cork house is supposed to be a second home, it will be interesting to check if he has paid the €200 levy, or did he claim that on expenses?

    as himself and the wife own a lot of property in Dublin he'll be well aware of the €200 levy, no doubt he used some of the surplus cash received through his expenses.

    All political expenses should be vouched.
    For instance, Finian McGrath publishes all his expenses on his website, not many other TD's or senator's brave/honest enough to do that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭stantheman8


    bigeasyeah wrote: »
    No,nobody ever complains effectually.
    e.g:to the barman,partner,friends,on boards etc.

    Which is why I'm asking:

    "Apart from organising marches on the streets what other options do we have as a public to ensure that this behaviour is dealt with so forcefully that it will put the fear of God in anyone considering pulling cash out of our coffers/pockets in the future?"

    I've considered contacting my local politician but fear that they are not going to disturb the status quo.
    Leaving the country and taking my business elsewhere is another - somewhat extreme - option.

    If there were some more effective ways of venting anger then let's pursue them, get some momentum going and try to bring about some real change instead of crying into our pints!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    Is this not simple fraud. Everyone and their dog knows the man lives in Dublin. Could every Dublin TD not simply buy a little cheap shack in Connemara, say that that is their main residence, and essentially rob each tax payer.
    All these politicians know what to expect when they run for Leinster House or are elected to the Seanad. Why in gods name should they be given money for turning up to their job, and given travelling expenses. I am a teacher, if i apply for a job in Dublin, I do not get travelling expense, I do not get more money on top of my basic salary for simply turning up to work, I do not get subsidized meals. the system is still rotten to the core, despite the small measures being taken at the moment to restructure the procedures.
    But then again, do the electorate punish these politicians. Rest assured JO'D will easily be re-elected in the next election, as will Healey Ray, who is not shy of making the most of these expenses.


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