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How do you feel when you encounter a Burqua/Niqabi clad woman?

  • 27-05-2010 04:20PM
    #1
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    Encountered a woman yesterday in Saudi like garb, showing only her eyes. I felt sad and subconsciously a little scared of this culture.


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Comments

  • #2
    Kepti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Kepti


    Saw this nice little guide to the different Muslim veils on the BBC website a week or two ago, for those who may not know the difference.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/europe_muslim_veils/html/1.stm


  • #3
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,679 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I also feel uncomfortable with this way of dressing. I have never had to have direct dealings with someone dressed in a burqua or similar but I would find it difficult. Once the face is visible I would be ok with any other dress style.

    On occasions when I have had to interview people if they were wearing black sunglasses I would ascertain whether it was for medical reasons, and suggest they remove them. It is very much part of our society norm to be able to make eye contact - in fact it is considered necessary to make eye contact - and it is natural that you would feel uncomfortable talking to someone who's face you cannot see.

    Edit to say - that is an interesting guide on the BBC website. I have no problems with any of those veils apart from the burqua and to some extent the Niquabi.


  • #4
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #5
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    I have no problem whatsoever with the hijab, in fact I can see a lot of merits to it. The niquab and the burka however I do not agree with. I think they are dehumanizing. Humans are one of the few creatures on earth that recognize each other by faces. Eye contact forms a massive part of all relationships, big or small. Having no face reduces you from a person to a nondescript shadow and I think its wrong, even if you choose to wear it yourself, to sacrifice so much of your identity to protecting yourself from the male gaze.


  • #6
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    I feel disgusted, to be honest. The burqa/niqab completely remove women from the public sphere.


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  • #7
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    I don't like burqa. It is unnecessary under Islamic law. However I do respect the right of a woman to wear one if she chooses to do so.


  • #8
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Not nearly as disgusted as I do when I see people with jedward hair cuts etc, but then again, I'm not too au fait with current fashion trends.


  • #9
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Encountered a woman yesterday in Saudi like garb, showing only her eyes. I felt sad and subconsciously a little scared of this culture.


    we are compelled hrough PC to respect their ways, though the opposite is not the case. they should dress as Irish women when in ireland, just like irish women should dress according to their ways in their country.

    i have little tolerance for Irish women who marry muslims and then wear the veil.


  • #10
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,679 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Can anyone tell me why it is that you never see the men in traditional costume? I'm not sure what the various costumes would be but any time I see a couple including a woman in a veil, the man is in standard western clothing.


  • #11
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    looksee wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me why it is that you never see the men in traditional costume? I'm not sure what the various costumes would be but any time I see a couple including a woman in a veil, the man is in standard western clothing.


    its called hypocrosy


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  • #12
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    looksee wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me why it is that you never see the men in traditional costume? I'm not sure what the various costumes would be but any time I see a couple including a woman in a veil, the man is in standard western clothing.

    Stand outside any Mosque at prayer time and you will see lots of men in their traditional clothing.


  • #13
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Stand outside any Mosque at prayer time and you will see lots of men in their traditional clothing.

    That wasn't the question. Go to your local shopping center or whatever, you rarely see men in traditional costume while women are often seen in the full veil


  • #14
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Freiheit wrote: »
    How do you feel when you encounter a Burqua/Niqabi clad woman?

    The same as I did before and after. It's a few bits of cloth.


  • #15
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    I worry about what would happen to society if more of her menfolk were around...It scared me....


  • #16
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Curious.Both about their culture,the significance, and about how they look underneath(not in a naughty way)


  • #17
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Honest answer is that I feel uncomfortable. I do not like that way of dressing. The stereotype also does not add helpful elements to that situation.


  • #18
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    pity for thinking any sane person could think that its a vital part of religion..


  • #19
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,679 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    pity for thinking any sane person could think that its a vital part of religion..

    I agree, but its not that long since women here would not go into church with their hair uncovered, its a matter of degree, but the same idea.


  • #20
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I don't like burqa. It is unnecessary under Islamic law. However I do respect the right of a woman to wear one if she chooses to do so.

    Only if she is not forced to wear it.
    How does anyone know if she is forced to wear it or not brain washed into thinking she has to.




    In answer to question,I don't feel uncomfortable around them i suppose because i have alot of people around me who wear them.No problem but they should not be allowed wear in a shop or bank or in any other place i would not be allowed to wear something covering my face.As it is not a religious thing its cultural.
    Can see the new crime wave look for bank robbers :D


  • #21
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I don't like burqa. It is unnecessary under Islamic law. However I do respect the right of a woman to wear one if she chooses to do so.

    It isn't always the womans choice. This is an interesting piece from the Times, about a woman fined for wearing a Burqa in a town that has it outlawed. She is to be fined.

    Her husbands reaction is to remove her from society altogether rather than have men look at his wife.

    Her feelings don't seem to get a mention.



    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7115756.ece
    Ben Salah Braim, 36, the woman's husband and a building worker, said he would respect the regulation, but would have to confine his wife at home since the Koran forbade other men to see her face.
    “Amel may not be looked at by other men,” he told Corriere della Sera. “Our religion is explicit on this,” he said. “If this is the law in Italy, what can I do? I don't know how I am going to find the money to pay the 500 Euro fine.”

    As regards the OP, I feel completely horrified when I see a woman reduced to an anonymous nothing by having all individuality blacked out under a burqa.


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  • #22
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    I think it is disrespectful to cover your face particularly when you are interacting with people. People pick up a lot of facial expressions subconsciously and this is extremely important for good communication. If a woman wants to wear it then it is her choice and she has to live with the consequences of that choice. I wonder how many women truly wear them under their own free will and are not pressurized into wearing them.


  • #23
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I think it is disrespectful to cover your face particularly when you are interacting with people. People pick up a lot of facial expressions subconsciously and this is extremely important for good communication. If a woman wants to wear it then it is her choice and she has to live with the consequences of that choice. I wonder how many women truly wear them under their own free will and are not pressurized into wearing them.

    I hate to say it the ones who are forced into believing they are evil or a slut if they don't.
    That's the impression i get from the women over in those countries who are fighting against it.Among other things.


  • #24
    ThunderApple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭ThunderApple


    I'm not afraid of them and I don't panic (some people do) when I meet women dressed up like that in a closed space but I'm uncomfortable with it. You never know...


  • #25
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I see it in the same context as a balaclava: it depends on the context. People wearing balaclavas playing paintball is okay. People wearing balaclavas in a bank, can be seen as bad. Likewise people walking down the street.

    As such, women wearing their burka to their church, no problem. People wearing their Burka walking down the streeet: not good.


  • #26
    Shelga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Hmm was talking about this with a friend recently. I really don't like seeing them in everyday contexts. I doubt that all the women who wear them are forced to do so; a more plausible explanation would be that most of them want to wear them, and it is culturally engrained in them to do so.

    As far as I can see there are two situations in which a woman wears one of these veils, and for me, both are bad:

    1. She is forced to- in which case, the burqa represents oppression and male dominance, obviously not good.

    2. She wants to wear it- in which case the veil is a religious symbol like any other, just more in-your-face (pardon the pun). I would have almost the same reaction to seeing someone clutching rosary beads or wearing a yamaka- all organised religion is dangerous and stupid. Might sound extreme but there you go. Oh and of course another dose of oppression of women.

    *runs to subscribe to Atheism and Agnosticism*


  • #27
    destinybabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31 ✭destinybabe


    I have to say I think the burqua is fairly extremist looking, personally I'd feel at a disadvantage if I was was trying to communicate with a woman wearing it, she'd see my facial expressions so I would have less to rely on non-verbal facial expressions are required to complement the verbal I find, the burqua looks quite claustrophobic although she probably is accustomed to it if it's a normal part of her culture/socialization. You have to respect a persons right to practise their religion/choices if it's for the right reasons, perhaps expecting others to stop wearing them because they reside in Ireland is abit much I can understand that when we go to their country we cover up but on the other hand we're living in an ever growing multi cultural Ireland and it's important to some groups identity so maybe abit of a compromise is needed.


  • #28
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    destinybabe wrote: »
    I have to say I think the burqua is fairly extremist looking, personally I'd feel at a disadvantage if I was was trying to communicate with a woman wearing it, she'd see my facial expressions so I would have less to rely on non-verbal facial expressions are required to complement the verbal I find, the burqua looks quite claustrophobic although she probably is accustomed to it if it's a normal part of her culture/socialization. You have to respect a persons right to practise their religion/choices if it's for the right reasons, perhaps expecting others to stop wearing them because they reside in Ireland is abit much I can understand that when we go to their country we cover up but on the other hand we're living in an ever growing multi cultural Ireland and it's important to some groups identity so maybe abit of a compromise is needed.

    Originally Posted by irishconvert viewpost.gif
    I don't like burqa. It is unnecessary under Islamic law. However I do respect the right of a woman to wear one if she chooses to do so.

    If we are meant to respect their ways in their country,they should compromise when they live in ours.


  • #29
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    caseyann wrote: »
    Originally Posted by irishconvert viewpost.gif
    I don't like burqa. It is unnecessary under Islamic law. However I do respect the right of a woman to wear one if she chooses to do so.

    If we are meant to respect their ways in their country,they should compromise when they live in ours.

    How far do you think they should go in "compromise"?
    Shoud they take off hijab?
    Should the drink alcohol?
    Should they wear mini skirts and wear low cut tops?
    Should they have sex outside marriage?


  • #30
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,679 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    irishconvert wrote: »
    How far do you think they should go in "compromise"?
    Shoud they take off hijab?
    Should the drink alcohol?
    Should they wear mini skirts and wear low cut tops?
    Should they have sex outside marriage?

    That really isn't a reasonable response to what has been a very reasonable discussion. I think it is perfectly obvious from the last few posts that the compromise being asked for is that the face is visible in normal communication. Possibly not when just walking along a street, but in dealings where conversation or communication is taking place it would be courteous to bow to local custom.

    I think that throughout this discussion, no-one has a problem with people following their own customs, with the exception of the one situation of not being able to speak face to face with another person. It goes against local mores to the extent of being considered ill-mannered, and this is the compromise that is being suggested.


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  • #31
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    caseyann wrote: »
    If we are meant to respect their ways in their country,they should compromise when they live in ours.

    Although one could agree in principle, this raises bigger questions?
    What are our ways?
    Who is "our" referring to?
    Who are "they"?
    What makes "theirs" different from "ours"?

    We could be all night discussing these things, and you might find that what you are considering to be "our ways" aren't really "ours" at all, "ours" in that they aren't mutually shared by all Irish people.


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