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Male/female insurance rant

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  • 10-05-2010 11:55am
    #1
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭


    Ok, so checking for a renewal on my insurance, i wanted to see how much i'd save if i was female. As a male i was quoted €2450, as a female (with exact same details) i was quoted €1375, 'rough figures'. This is probably a very common thread, so sorry if it's a broken record, but i was wondering is there any legal basis that they can discriminate people based on age/gender?
    My policy roughly costs 70% more more than the females, so if they were using statistics, males are 70% more likely to make claims?

    As for the stats themselves, where do they get them? And how accurate are they? Are they very clear cut statistics or do they take situations into account? (such as a wife on a husbands policy crashes the car, so does it count as a male claim or a female claim?) Is this information available to the public, if not then why? If yes then where?


«1345

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    #2
    Berty
    Registered Users Posts: 26,149 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    You're quoting statistics.

    Insurance companies have loads as well = Reason they can discriminate.

    Did you not know that you are a KILLER ON THE ROADS?


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    #3
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Apparently every bloke has the potential to be a bloody murderer every time they get behind the wheel of a car, whereas no woman has ever caused a car crash or made an insurance claim in the history of mankind... :rolleyes:

    Its shocking, but they have some kind of twisted stats to back it up, and we have no option but to accept it and pay if we want to drive cars (other than having gender reassignment) so its probably best not to think about it...


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    #4
    Berty
    Registered Users Posts: 26,149 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    I'll put it another way. We ALL went through it and you just have to accept it. I will NOT change. The older you get, subject to you remaining claim free, your premiums will come down.

    Im 29 and my insurance rates would be €320 fully comp on a 2004 Renault Megane 1.4.


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    #5
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    djimi wrote: »
    Apparently every bloke has the potential to be a bloody murderer every time they get behind the wheel of a car, whereas no woman has ever caused a car crash or made an insurance claim in the history of mankind... :rolleyes:

    Its shocking, but they have some kind of twisted stats to back it up, and we have no option but to accept it and pay if we want to drive cars (other than having gender reassignment) so its probably best not to think about it...

    On that note, I wonder how the insurance companies would class a person who had a sex change....would they still pay the extortionate male premium, or the female??

    This really pisses me off about insurance companies. Fair enough they're saying men are involved in more accidents therefore our insurance is higher but its blatant discrimination.
    I wonder what would they do if the statistics showed that (for example) black people were involved in the most accidents. Would they give white people the cheap insurance while piling on the cost of the premium for a black person? I think not.
    Its blatant sexist discrimination and I don't know why we have to put up with it and bend over for these insurance companies.:mad:

    /Rant


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    #6
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Xios


    Berty wrote: »
    ...you just have to accept it.

    But do we really? It's quite unfair and it's blatant inequality. I'd rather not prove how well i can drive on a year to year basis whislt paying insane premiums that are twice the price of the car itself. (i do understand that the car isn't the issue with insurance claims, but more so the injury caused by the offending driver to others)


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    #7
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Dean09 wrote: »
    On that note, I wonder how the insurance companies would class a person who had a sex change....would they still pay the extortionate male premium, or the female??

    This really pisses me off about insurance companies. Fair enough they're saying men are involved in more accidents therefore our insurance is higher but its blatant discrimination.
    I wonder what would they do if the statistics showed that (for example) black people were involved in the most accidents. Would they give white people the cheap insurance while piling on the cost of the premium for a black person? I think not.
    Its blatant sexist discrimination and I don't know why we have to put up with it and bend over for these insurance companies.:mad:

    /Rant

    Because they know they have us in a no win situation. Whats the alternative; drive with no insurance and potentially end up in prison? Go without a car? Its the same as petrol prices; we have no alternative but to suck it up and just accept it. I agree, its incredibly frustrating and very wrong, but Im not sure what the alternative is.


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    #8
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Xios wrote: »
    But do we really? It's quite unfair and it's blatant inequality. I'd rather not prove how well i can drive on a year to year basis whislt paying insane premiums that are twice the price of the car itself. (i do understand that the car isn't the issue with insurance claims, but more so the injury caused by the offending driver to others)

    Whats your alternative?


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    #9
    Berty
    Registered Users Posts: 26,149 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    Xios wrote: »
    But do we really? It's quite unfair and it's blatant inequality.

    Let us know how you get on fighting the Corporate beast. :eek:


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    #10
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Xios


    djimi wrote: »
    Whats your alternative?

    Organise an 8 car accident (possibly on a roundabout), where everyone is at fault, each with a different insurance company.


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    #11
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    djimi wrote: »
    Because they know they have us in a no win situation. Whats the alternative; drive with no insurance and potentially end up in prison? Go without a car? Its the same as petrol prices; we have no alternative but to suck it up and just accept it. I agree, its incredibly frustrating and very wrong, but Im not sure what the alternative is.

    The alternative is to have it fair and even accross the board. If the cost of all the insurance claims was spread out evenly between everybody, male and female alike, then the premiums would be fair for everybody. Nobody pays astronomically high premiums and nobody pays dirt cheap premiums. kind of a medium level premium for everyone which drops if you keep your no claims bonus.
    It doesnt take a genius to solve the problem and to stop being discriminative.


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    #12
    TestTransmission
    Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭TestTransmission


    Go on OP,have your rant.
    What age are you?whats the car?How long do you have your licence?


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    #13
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Dean09 wrote: »
    The alternative is to have it fair and even accross the board. If the cost of all the insurance claims was spread out evenly between everybody, male and female alike, then the premiums would be fair for everybody. Nobody pays astronomically high premiums and nobody pays dirt cheap premiums. kind of a medium level premium for everyone which drops if you keep your no claims bonus.
    It doesnt take a genius to solve the problem and to stop being discriminative.

    Of course thats the alternative situation in an ideal world, and thats what we should be striving to achieve. I meant whats the alternative to the OPs compaints; he either pays the asking price or what...? There isnt really any alternative that will result in him legally driving his car.

    You can fight it all you want but you will be doing a lot of walking/cycling/public transport in the meantime...


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    #14
    Twin-go
    Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Twin-go


    djimi wrote: »
    Whats your alternative?

    Risk equalisation accross Male/Female in each age bracket.

    E.g. Based on OP figures:
    • Male €2450
    • Female €1375
    • Risk Equalisation = both should pay €1912.50


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    #15
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Xios


    Doing a little research i found this
    http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/car-crash-men-woman.html wrote:
    Men are more than twice as likely to die in a car crash than women, consider the yearly statistics shown below. In fact, studies have shoiwn as many as 73 percent of all people killed in car accidents are male. Since record keeping began: male fatalities significantly outweigh female fatalities. However men and women do not drive the same number of miles under the same conditions- men do about 60-65% more driving than women. Studies show that woman take shorter trips and female drivers have a greater number of minor crashes than do men. However men are still 70% more likely to be in a serious crash.


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    #16
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Men are more than twice as likely to die in a car crash than women

    Young men are far more likely to break the law and end up in jail than young women, or older men, but we don't double the sentence just for being a young man.


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    #17
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Dean09 wrote: »
    The alternative is to have it fair and even accross the board. If the cost of all the insurance claims was spread out evenly between everybody, male and female alike, then the premiums would be fair for everybody. Nobody pays astronomically high premiums and nobody pays dirt cheap premiums. kind of a medium level premium for everyone which drops if you keep your no claims bonus.
    It doesnt take a genius to solve the problem and to stop being discriminative.

    And why should I pay higher premiums for you and the OP? Is this communist Russia where car insures you?


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    #18
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    OP ring your company and put your foot down.


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    #19
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Xios


    R.O.R wrote: »
    And why should I pay higher premiums for you and the OP? Is this communist Russia where car insures you?

    And why should i pay a much higher premium for some young boyo doing 150 down the road to mullingar?


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    #20
    H8GHOTI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭H8GHOTI


    Xios wrote: »
    Organise an 8 car accident (possibly on a roundabout), where everyone is at fault, each with a different insurance company.

    :D Genius




    How will that help exactly?


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    #21
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Xios wrote: »
    And why should i pay a much higher premium for some young boyo doing 150 down the road to mullingar?
    +1

    so what we are essentially saying is that discrimination is fine, once you discriminate against the white male 18-24?

    Ridiculous. Replace the words "young male" in the below with any of your choosing from "black" "jewish" "a traveller" "gay" and you get my point

    "they increased my insurance premium because i am a young male."


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    #22
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    +1

    so what we are essentially saying is that discrimination is fine, once you discriminate against the white male 18-24?

    Ridiculous. Replace the words "young male" in the below with any of your choosing from "black" "jewish" "a traveller" "gay" and you get my point

    "they increased my insurance premium because i am a young male."
    I think you'll find that young male jews and young male blacks also have to pay higher premiums.


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    #23
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Xios


    H8GHOTI wrote: »
    :D Genius




    How will that help exactly?

    It'll make me a happier person, just eliminating my frustration and disolving this is whole discrimnation issue for a while. Plus it'd make one hell of a new story.


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    #24
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Xios wrote: »
    And why should i pay a much higher premium for some young boyo doing 150 down the road to mullingar?

    Because, until you can prove that you aren't that young boyo, then you get lumped in with them.

    Is that fair? Not really, but life aint fair.

    I won't rub in what I'm paying, but it's the lowest it ever has been. In the past though I paid over £3,500 IRP a year for insurance, 2 years in a row. Is your quote at that level?? (€4,500)


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    #25
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    biko wrote: »
    I think you'll find that young male jews and young male blacks also have to pay higher premiums.
    pedant :rolleyes:

    You get my point- its blatant ageism and if it was another group being victimised there would be uproar.


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    #26
    TheInquisitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭TheInquisitor


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Men are more than twice as likely to die in a car crash than women

    Young men are far more likely to break the law and end up in jail than young women, or older men, but we don't double the sentence just for being a young man.
    However men and women do not drive the same number of miles under the same conditions- men do about 60-65% more driving than women.

    Men are more than 70 % more likly to die than females while driving 60-65% more than females!!! So the actual like for like risk is more like 7.5% more risk for males while on the other hand females have much more minor accidents than males.


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    #27
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    Where are all the feminists with their equality crap when it comes to stuff like this?!


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    #28
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Where are all the feminists with their equality crap when it comes to stuff like this?!

    to busy spending the money they saved on jeans
    :D


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    #29
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I think it's a little disengenuous to accuse insurers of blanket discrimination.

    Young males have heavier claims so therefore should pay more. In that group there are some better risks and some worse risks. There's no way of identifying which are which, so what other option is there only to charge them an appropriate rate to the sex and age group?

    Some insurers will actively not want your business, and their quote will demonstrate that. The answer as always is to shop around.

    p.s. Many won't know this but females pay 50% more for permanent health insurance. They claim more frequently and for longer too. It was challenged legally and the insurer won.


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    #30
    ha-ya-said-what
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭ha-ya-said-what


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Where are all the feminists with their equality crap when it comes to stuff like this?!

    Nah their sat thinking, "We are equal, but we just write the cars off & daddy fixes it or buys a new one so the insurance doesn't find out"


    Genral thing I have noticed with RTAs:
    Man - Crashes car, claims on insurance, takes the hit

    Woman - Crashes car ... runs to daddy or partner so solve it, crying she doesn't want her insurance to go up or anyone to know she crashed, generally 17- mid 20s


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    #31
    Xios
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Xios


    TheInquisitor wrote: »
    Men are more than 70 % more likly to die than females while driving 60-65% more than females!!! So the actual like for like risk is more like 7.5% more risk for males while on the other hand females have much more minor accidents than males.

    I agree hugely on this, If you take the raw data, meaning the number of accidents involving men, and the number involving women, of course men are going to have a much much higher count because there are much more male drivers on the roads. This information should be taken on a % basis, how much % of males crash vs how much % of females.

    This may not count, but there's also much more males using their vehicles for works, such as taxi drivers, service men for ESB/Bord Gás and all the sparks and carpenters that require them to be on the road for much longer times and distances. I'm not saying that no women work on the road, just saying (without evidence) that there is a lot more men doing it.


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