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Phd in America

  • 18-04-2010 01:18PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I'm going into my final year in TCD and want to apply for Phd courses in the states. Here's the thing.. I dont know how to, dont know anyone who ever has studied in America, I dont know anything about finances or how difficult it is to get onto a Phd course.

    I want to apply on the east coast so NY, Pennsylvania etc.

    Does anyone have any information that could help me rather then trawling through millions of different websites. I've emailed people in some colleges - Stony Brook Uni, Uni of Pittsburgh but have heard nothing back!!

    I'm a psychology student and want to do further study in the area of health psychology if this is of any extra help.

    Thanks!


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 acfan


    In order to apply to the states there are certain things you must supply the colleges with:
    1. you must complete the GRE test (http://www.ets.org/gre/ )....its a computer based test and can be completed in certain test centres in Ireland.
    2. personal statement outlining your research interests and your education and experience to date.
    3. online application form
    4. GRE subject (for certain phds) This test is not required by all colleges and programs but some do!

    Applying for phds in the states is not the same as applying for phds in Ireland. You do not contact individual lecturers and P.I.'s to see if they require students as you would here in Ireland, instead you must apply directly to the college / university first and be accepted on to the phd program. Many programs begin as a Master's degree but have the option of progressing into a Phd depending on results.
    It is important to note that Phds in the states are structured and much longer than studying for a Phd in Ireland or Europe. There will be exams much like an undergraduate degree and you don't begin your research / thesis until your 2nd or sometimes 3rd year.
    My advise would be to research the universities you are interested in and contact the program co-ordinators.
    Hope this helps!
    Best of Luck!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭mercer


    thanks so much for your info... I dont really mind that its a bit longer, I'm sort of dying to get out of Ireland. so dont mind the extra time in college.

    Is a GRE test hard?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 acfan


    I didn't find the GRE very easy unfortunately but then I didn't prepare for it as well as I should have. Its really just an aptitude test but its marked in a less than conventional way......your answer to a question will determine the difficulty of the next question you receive on the test. If you get a question correct your next question will be harder and if you get a question wrong your next question will be easier.....your marks will increase and decrease to correspond. As a result your answer to the first few questions are pivotal in how high you score. Some universities put more weighting on it than others. I have known people to get a very poor GRE score and still be accepted to their college of choice! My advise to you would be to get the Princeton review GRE prep books, they are available on amazon and are reasonably priced. Anyone I know who has taken the GRE found these books to be very useful! Give yourself a good three months of prep before you sit the exam.
    I can't blame you for wanting to get out of Ireland. In fact any lecturers I have spoken to about doing phds have said its best to get out of Ireland if you have most of your qualifications from here already.
    Hope this info is useful and that I haven't put you off sitting the GRE....its really not all that bad, you just need to practice a lot!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 acfan


    Oh and in terms of the financial side of completing a phd in the states....the majority of programs offer a stipend to phd students which is usually around the $20,000 mark for a year depending on the program and the phd. Sometimes this money is enough to live on but sometimes its not....depends on the area you are living in. I have a friend completing a phd in Cornell and because the cost of living in Ithaca she has actually been able to save money! However I know people who attended NYU and had to hold down a job while completing their phd because the cost of living in Manhattan is so much higher.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭mercer


    oh no, you haven't put me off... its better to know so I can practice.
    did you study in America?? also, weird question but how old is your friend who is doing the Phd... I'll be 28 moving over there so was wondering if I'll be ridiculously older then the other students....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    I'm doing a PhD at a US university (but temporarily in Ireland), and I agree with everything so far. Just a few more points though...

    The GRE is REALLY important, especially for international students, because it is the one metric that is uniform amongst all applicants. A lot of schools will use the GRE as an initial screening tool, i.e. you have to have some kind of base minimum. Once you figure out what departments you are interested in, check their website for a general student profile in terms of average GPA/GRE scores. I'd also recommend purchasing a GRE review book (I used Princeton Review, but Kaplan has them too). DO THE EXERCISES. And time yourself.

    One thing you might want to think about is doing a US-based masters first. Increasingly departments want applicants to demonstrate that they are serious about their topics and can handle graduate-level work.

    Age depends on the department. Ask. I started my program when I was 28, and I would say about 1/3 of my cohort were my age or older, although I am definitely one of the older people in the department. However, I think part of the reason they accepted me is that I had work experience related to what I wanted to do, and older students tend to be more focused. So you age really shouldn't be an issue. The only thing that sucks about being older is that I was used to living as a salaried professional with my own place, and had to downgrade to shared apartments on a grad student budget in a very expensive city.

    On that point, I wouldn't use region as a limitation. You should apply to the best departments you think you can get into. The East Coast and California are the most expensive parts of the US; funding will go a LOT further in other parts of the country. And having to work will slow you down considerably...not to mention there will be limitations on your ability to find outside employment if you aren't a citizen.


    Finally, if you are not a US citizen, you should be very clear about the funding situation going in. Ideally you want a slot at a university that guarantees your funding for 5 years (or whatever the term of your program is). If you lose your funding, and cannot get a research/teaching position, you will risk losing your visa (this happened to a Korean friend of mine).

    Good luck. If you have any other questions, PM me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭mercer


    wow... seems a lot harder then I had thought.
    I was using this website as a guide to decide what colleges to apply to:
    http://www.socialpsychology.org/ranking.htm
    as I would like to do either a Phd in health psychology or clinical psycholology.

    one place - university of pittsburgh - have a good biology & health Phd course but the admissions seem really competitive, you need at least 600 on each section of the GRE test and relevant work experience. And there's only 10-15 places available!!

    I have work experience in a clinical setting - a volunteer in a hospital, but I'll probably have to spend the summer practicing the GRE test.

    Can you go straight from the undergraduate degree into a Phd course, or do people take a year out. I'll finish summer 2011 so I'd like to start a Phd in autumn 2011.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    mercer wrote: »
    wow... seems a lot harder then I had thought.
    I was using this website as a guide to decide what colleges to apply to:
    http://www.socialpsychology.org/ranking.htm
    as I would like to do either a Phd in health psychology or clinical psycholology.

    one place - university of pittsburgh - have a good biology & health Phd course but the admissions seem really competitive, you need at least 600 on each section of the GRE test and relevant work experience. And there's only 10-15 places available!!

    I have work experience in a clinical setting - a volunteer in a hospital, but I'll probably have to spend the summer practicing the GRE test.

    Can you go straight from the undergraduate degree into a Phd course, or do people take a year out. I'll finish summer 2011 so I'd like to start a Phd in autumn 2011.

    If a department says they want work experience, they usually mean 2-3 years full time work in your given field. It might be useful to look at 1-2 year masters programs and then some kind of visa program that would let you stay an additional 1-2 years before applying for a full time PhD program. Given that departments are paying up to a quarter-million dollars for your education, they tend to limit the risk of wasting their money by only taking people who seem committed to their field (via work experience and previous academic record) and by keeping the numbers small.

    Why do you want to do a PhD? There are other ways to get out of Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭mercer


    i want to do a Phd because I have a diploma and soon a degree so its a natural progression. i lived in america before and want to go back.

    hmm ok, i'll look into masters programmes too, I just thought it would make more sense going into a Phd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 acfan


    Looks like most of your questions have been answered!

    I haven't started my phd in the states yet. My friend is 27 and doing her phd in chemistry. The vast majority of phd students in the states are in their late 20's because of the way the education system works over there, many people don't finish their undergrad degree until they are in their mid 20's.
    One other point I will make is that many of the universities in the states pride themselves on being internationally recognisable and the fact that you are coming from one of the top 50 universities in the world ( I believe you said you are in Trinity!) and that you are not american will stand in your favour!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭mercer


    yeah I am in Trinity. have you applied to do your Phd yet?
    thanks for your help by the way!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 acfan


    I have applied and have been provisionally accepted but I really want to study medicine here in Ireland and I'm waiting to hear about that before I accept anything.
    If I can answer anything else feel free to ask!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    mercer wrote: »
    i want to do a Phd because I have a diploma and soon a degree so its a natural progression. i lived in america before and want to go back.

    hmm ok, i'll look into masters programmes too, I just thought it would make more sense going into a Phd.

    Sorry, that might have read more harshly than I meant it to.

    Depending on what you want to do long-term, it may not necessarily be a natural progression. I've noticed that in Europe, a lot of people have PhDs to do jobs that in the US a lot of people do with a masters or a professional degree. Since a lot of PhD programs in Europe are 3 years, and a professional masters in the US can take between 1-3 years, this makes sense...so whether you do one or the other may depend on where you want to end up in the long-term.

    To be honest, I wouldn't really recommend that anyone go straight from undergrad into a PhD program. I think it's better to get some work experience, and to get a better sense of what interests you in the long term, and what degree you actually need to get there (but if you are 28 and have worked already, then this may not be as much of an issue). I know a lot of people who start PhD programs because they like school, but I'd argue that liking school is necessary, but not sufficient. Again, I'm not trying to harsh on you personally, but I'm definitely at the point in my program (year 4) where people are really having problems figuring out what their research agenda is, or what they are even doing in the program, and it's particularly painful for those students who have never done anything else but school (and summer internships)...but at this point they are too deep into the process. Whereas if they had done a masters, they would have figured this out 3 years ago without all of the blood, sweat and tears.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    I had a visiting lecturer over from UC Berkely who offered to write me a reference should I ever decide to go for the American PHD route, so chatted to him about it a fair bit. Keep in mind this is for history rather than your area of interest.

    Basically, he said the letters of reccomendation are by far the most important.
    His advice clashed with what Southsiderosie said. GREs are a strange one and a great one will not necessarily help you and a poor one will not necessarily hurt you. They often have a minimum level but GREs are much less important than things such as your subject interest, GPA equivalent and especially the letters of reccomendation. This could be completely different for the area you have planned though.

    Most universities offer generous funding programs but you'd want to go for private universities as they tend to have more generous funding. The amount is usually decent but a student in my university is off in New York and finding the stipend tough to live on given the cost of living. Make sure to check for how long the funding lasts as it can be crucial.

    Most universities don't seem to require masters (they are picked up en route) but competition to get on is fairly fierce.

    The university itself isn't as important as the lecturer itself; I was told to pick a professor to study under who is an expert in my specific field rather than the reputation of the university/city itself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    I had a visiting lecturer over from UC Berkely who offered to write me a reference should I ever decide to go for the American PHD route, so chatted to him about it a fair bit. Keep in mind this is for history rather than your area of interest.

    Basically, he said the letters of reccomendation are by far the most important.
    His advice clashed with what Southsiderosie said. GREs are a strange one and a great one will not necessarily help you and a poor one will not necessarily hurt you. They often have a minimum level but GREs are much less important than things such as your subject interest, GPA equivalent and especially the letters of reccomendation. This could be completely different for the area you have planned though.

    Most universities offer generous funding programs but you'd want to go for private universities as they tend to have more generous funding. The amount is usually decent but a student in my university is off in New York and finding the stipend tough to live on given the cost of living. Make sure to check for how long the funding lasts as it can be crucial.

    Most universities don't seem to require masters (they are picked up en route) but competition to get on is fairly fierce.

    The university itself isn't as important as the lecturer itself; I was told to pick a professor to study under who is an expert in my specific field rather than the reputation of the university/city itself.

    I agree that recommendations are important, but from what I've seen, departments won't even look at them if you do not meet minimum GRE requirements. This is particularly true for departments that receive a lot of applications (which is why I am surprised someone from Berkeley would say that, since they are HUGE). And it's quite hard for admissions committees to compare GPAs across institutions without being familiar with their grading policies, or the reputations of their departments; a B from one school may be more impressive than an A- from another, but they would have to know the departments well in order to make that call. As a international student, it might be useful to find out if there are other Trinity students who have gone to the US to study a similar field; departments seem to do "chain" admissions from feeder schools abroad, because they have a sense of what to expect (for example, in my department we had a lot of Japanese from University of Tokyo...and Germans from Cambridge, for some reason). It's also why I'd recommend doing a masters first: you could get a recommendation from inside the system, from an institution that may be a "feeder" school for a PhD program.

    One thing I would say about picking a professor rather than a department is that junior faculty have a tendency to leave. Senior faculty also occasionally switch departments. So if there is someone you are particularly interested in working with, be sure to ask the department about their policies should advisors leave. Usually senior tenured faculty that switch departments are allowed to bring their students with them, but you should definitely check, as it can totally screw up people's committees when faculty take new positions on the other side of the country. When I applied, I mentioned two people that I wanted to work with...and when I got there, one was on leave, and he's since switched jobs (I applied to another department where one person I wanted to work with had actually left for Yale, but it hadn't been officially announced yet, and the other prof was dying...also not announced. Unfortunately this is not uncommon). I'd argue that the reputation of the advisor matters more for those going into academia, but the reputation of the department or school may matter more for those going into industry (though this may depend on your field). Plus, the school matters in terms of resources, etc; private schools with large endowments may have more campus resources in terms of research centers, funding opportunities, etc.

    Don't mean to deluge you with info so I'll stop...I guess I am just at a point in my program where I am re-thinking a lot of the decisions I've made over the last few years, so this is a timely subject!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Yeah, I'm also a bit surprised as to what you've experienced; I was told that the GREs aren't all that important as merely being good at maths/writing etc does not mean you're cut out for studying the mammoth that is the PHD. GREs usually have a minimum but the university wants to know you'll be able to keep up with the sheer amount of work and research. The professor who was offering me a letter of reccomendation wasn't involved in my particular area of interest, but was a well regarded history professor nonetheless; his LOR was mainly to show the home university how well suited I'd be to academia, rather than telling them what a great PHD topic I had.
    Which is where the letter of reccomendations come into play. GPA still factors as it shows something more than basic literary/numerical skills. The University would generally know the college where you did your undergrad so can take your GPA accordingly. Likewise, many universities like Notre Dame don't do terminal MA programs (in history anyway, I never researched other fields)

    Likewise I was told to focus on a professor rather than a school/department for the following reason; lecturers specialise. One potential PHD topic I had was for Irish involvement with the US labour unions. Boston College had a very good professor for that in a great Irish studies department. However, if that particular professor left, I'd be fairly screwed. As great as the college/funding/deparment is, trying to do a PHD with a lecturer who knows nothing about so esoteric a subject would be extremely tough.

    Keep in mind all this is for history


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 acfan


    I have to agree with Kickoutthejams! The importance of the GRE will differ depending on the college you apply to and the program you apply to!

    My advise to you is to go with your gut.....if a phd is something you feel you want to pursue then go for it!! Best of luck!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Hm, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the GRE. I applied during the economic boom...there were 218 applicants for 11 slots in my department; last year when the economy tanked there were over 300. So every little bit helps! Most PhD applications, once fully compiled are over 20 pages long, so for the admissions committee faced with a huge pile, GRE scores are a quick and easy way to rank applications. The other reason why it's important is that a lot of scholarships will ask you for your GRE score; for example, I know that the Ford Foundation (which provides 3 years of funding) asks for GRE scores for its pre-dissertation fellowships.

    As for the advisor, I don't disagree that it's important to have an advisor in your field. However, I still maintain that it's important to know what their status is with the department, and what protocol is if they skip out - lecturers specialize, but lecturers also leave, especially young ones. If you have a specialized topic (assuming it doesn't change...which generally happens anyway) and they leave and can't take you with (or at least stay on your committee), and there is nobody else around who does something close to what you do, then, yes, you are screwed. And unfortunately this happens fairly regularly. It is particularly bad if your funding is tied to a professor's project (which is common in the physical sciences), rather than the department itself. So, yeah, department and institutional resources matter - if writing a thesis with someone at the edges of your field is hard, writing it with no funding and a disinterested committee is even harder!

    Finally, I have to admit that I really disagree with the position that a lot of tenured faculty (particularly at top tier universities) take on academia in general. Within the social sciences (my area) and even more so in the humanities, a lot of tenured faculty seem to be shockingly or willfully ignorant about the "brass tacks" of academia today - the importance of publications, the lack of funding, the ever-shrinking pool of jobs, etc. The Chronicle of Higher Ed has been writing about this, and although the author specifically refers to the humanities, much of what she says is applicable to social science as well. Clearly people in the physical sciences have more options (industry vs. academia), but given the cost (both monetary and personal) and time of getting a graduate degree in the US, I think rather that going with your gut it is better to do a lot of background research, ask a lot of hard questions, and go in with your eyes wide open.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Hm, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the GRE. I applied during the economic boom...there were 218 applicants for 11 slots in my department; last year when the economy tanked there were over 300. So every little bit helps! Most PhD applications, once fully compiled are over 20 pages long, so for the admissions committee faced with a huge pile, GRE scores are a quick and easy way to rank applications. The other reason why it's important is that a lot of scholarships will ask you for your GRE score; for example, I know that the Ford Foundation (which provides 3 years of funding) asks for GRE scores for its pre-dissertation fellowships.
    As I was told, GRE scores don't count for that much once you reach a certain minimum; while you might have amazing verbal and numerical skills, it doesn't mean you're cut out for academia which is a whole different kettle of fish. Letters of reccomendation from high flying academics who can vouch for you are much more concrete. I'd imagine they count for much more in science or engineering but for history, I was told they're not heavily important in many faculties. It varies a lot between facilities though and apparently some do value them as very important.
    As for the advisor, I don't disagree that it's important to have an advisor in your field. However, I still maintain that it's important to know what their status is with the department, and what protocol is if they skip out - lecturers specialize, but lecturers also leave, especially young ones. If you have a specialized topic (assuming it doesn't change...which generally happens anyway) and they leave and can't take you with (or at least stay on your committee), and there is nobody else around who does something close to what you do, then, yes, you are screwed. And unfortunately this happens fairly regularly. It is particularly bad if your funding is tied to a professor's project (which is common in the physical sciences), rather than the department itself. So, yeah, department and institutional resources matter - if writing a thesis with someone at the edges of your field is hard, writing it with no funding and a disinterested committee is even harder!
    Very true, however, being in a good school with a disinterested supervisor is a massive hinderance. My old man works in a university here in Ireland and told my brother that choosing a good supervisor is crucial for his PHD as he's seen too many people find a great university but be unable to get on with the supervisor/who took no interest in the work.


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