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The Irish Famine

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  • #212
    bonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Denerick, I really wouldn't bother with him.

    If you have issues with other posters, this isn't the place to share them


  • #213
    bonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    getz wrote: »
    mysterious is right, over a million irish people went over to england with their families to keep from starving

    Strange. If mysterious is right, and the British were trying to kill as many Irish as possible, you'd think they'd have refused entry to that million to add to their tally....


  • #214
    Undergod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    mysterious wrote: »
    The Cromwellan times they killed thousands in every major urban centre accross Ireland ravaged Genocide and sent 200,000 to Connaght the rest to the slave trade in the Carribean.

    Oh sure what happened to the Catholics in the North during the plantations? They didn't dissappear by randon natural causes.
    Oh no Denerick, the British rulers, would never do that, oh no. thats not on now! The British would never do this, Why are you covering thier asses?

    Not really relevant. Let's not forget the atrocities carried out by Irish Catholics during the early years of the free state.


  • #215
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RoboClam wrote: »
    The church in Ireland secretly had lots of potatoes during the famine and they hid the potatoes in pillows and sold them abroad in potato fairs. And the Pope closed down a lot of the factories that were making the potatoes and turned them into prisons for children.

    Yeah jokes about people starving to death, classy.


  • #216
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Undergod wrote: »
    Not really relevant. Let's not forget the atrocities carried out by Irish Catholics during the early years of the free state.

    Now that is completely irrelevant.


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  • #217
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    bonkey wrote: »
    Strange. If mysterious is right, and the British were trying to kill as many Irish as possible, you'd think they'd have refused entry to that million to add to their tally....
    thank god they dident or i wouldent have been alive now


  • #218
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    bonkey wrote: »
    Strange. If mysterious is right, and the British were trying to kill as many Irish as possible, you'd think they'd have refused entry to that million to add to their tally....

    A million didn't leave during the famine times to UK. .1.5 left from from the famine to all over the world in seveal years. Ever since the famine Irish people have emigrated.

    It's amazing what you can say when you state one small fact, blow it over turn it into something it's not. The British wanted control over this country and has done all it's power to control it. If it means geneocide so be it.

    America is doing the exact same thing with Iraq now. It's called a tyranny on the loose.

    Amazing these kind of truths are so hard to handle with some people.:rolleyes:


  • #219
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    getz wrote: »
    mysterious is right, over a million irish people went over to england with their families to keep from starving

    Please don't create dis info and put a string of sentences that are completely not true and then state I said it as if I'm in agreement with you. It's call blasphemy. By now pointing it out on the spot. At least there is no confusion from this point on.

    I don't understand why people do this on this forum only, because I don't see this on other forums.


  • #220
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yeah jokes about people starving to death, classy.

    Its a joke from Father Ted. You see, in the episode where the feminist came to stay at the parochial house, the singer was promoting a new song about the famine which claimed that the church secretly hid all the potatoes. Your friend evoked Sinead O'Connor, the source of Graham Lenihans satire.

    Honestly, you could do without these kinds of advocates.


  • #221
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Denerick wrote: »
    Its a joke from Father Ted. You see, in the episode where the feminist came to stay at the parochial house, the singer was promoting a new song about the famine which claimed that the church secretly hid all the potatoes. Your friend evoked Sinead O'Connor, the source of Graham Lenihans satire.

    Honestly, you could do without these kinds of advocates.

    I would hold the view, that this kind of humour is a tactic to void and defer the topic. I mean on a serious debate I cannot see how people would make a joke on the nature of this debate.


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  • #222
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    mysterious wrote: »
    A million didn't leave during the famine times to UK. .1.5 left from from the famine to all over the world in seveal years. Ever since the famine Irish people have emigrated.

    It's amazing what you can say when you state one small fact, blow it over turn it into something it's not. The British wanted control over this country and has done all it's power to control it. If it means geneocide so be it.

    America is doing the exact same thing with Iraq now. It's called a tyranny on the loose.

    Amazing these kind of truths are so hard to handle with some people.:rolleyes:

    Hi again!

    Once again you have stated a number of bland generalities, and have juxtaposed the actions of the modern American military with the British Empire in Ireland in the 1840s. Unfortunately your post contained no prevailing argument other than an assertment of political faith ('we suffered genocide by the British') Unfortunately you leave no room for people to engage in a reasoned argument with you, as much as we'd like to. :)


  • #223
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    mysterious wrote: »
    I would hold the view, that this kind of humour is a tactic to void and defer the topic. I mean on a serious debate I cannot see how people would make a joke on the nature of this debate.

    Its intended to highlight how simple people can ascribe to patently ridiculous beliefs with no evidence whatsoever. A la, Sinead O Connor.


  • #224
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    mysterious wrote: »
    Please don't create dis info and put a string of sentences that are completely not true and then state I said it as if I'm in agreement with you. It's call blasphemy. By now pointing it out on the spot. At least there is no confusion from this point on.

    I don't understand why people do this on this forum only, because I don't see this on other forums.


    Unless your a God or someother Deity, then it isnt Blasphemy.


  • #225
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    mysterious wrote: »
    A million didn't leave during the famine times to UK. .1.5 left from from the famine to all over the world in seveal years. Ever since the famine Irish people have emigrated.

    It's amazing what you can say when you state one small fact, blow it over turn it into something it's not. The British wanted control over this country and has done all it's power to control it. If it means geneocide so be it.

    America is doing the exact same thing with Iraq now. It's called a tyranny on the loose.

    Amazing these kind of truths are so hard to handle with some people.:rolleyes:

    As far as I am aware the people who left for the British Isles aren't included in the numbers of emigrant figures as it was considered as travelling between Britain.

    In any case, the coffin ships were called coffin ships for a reason. Up to 50% of travellers died on the journey and many, more died soon after landing from diseases caught on the ships.

    If it was a policy of extermination then I wouldn't put chances of survival much higher in leaving rather than staying. Live or die on the trip they were gone from Ireland thereby making the population fewer and easier to control.


  • #226
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Denerick wrote: »
    Its a joke from Father Ted. You see, in the episode where the feminist came to stay at the parochial house, the singer was promoting a new song about the famine which claimed that the church secretly hid all the potatoes. Your friend evoked Sinead O'Connor, the source of Graham Lenihans satire.

    Honestly, you could do without these kinds of advocates.

    Oh, I am sorry in that case. :o


  • #227
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Denerick wrote: »
    Its intended to highlight how simple people can ascribe to patently ridiculous beliefs with no evidence whatsoever. A la, Sinead O Connor.

    Maybe you could answer the questions and assertions I put towards you, instead of been hypocritical and patently swinging from the tree pointing out judgments like you really are the one to call the shots here, all you have done is stated your belief. and you have ignored the facts that were put forward to you, because you choosed "to believe it's not true".

    shakes head.


  • #228
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    mysterious wrote: »
    A million didn't leave during the famine times to UK. .1.5 left from from the famine to all over the world in seveal years. Ever since the famine Irish people have emigrated.

    It's amazing what you can say when you state one small fact, blow it over turn it into something it's not. The British wanted control over this country and has done all it's power to control it. If it means geneocide so be it.

    America is doing the exact same thing with Iraq now. It's called a tyranny on the loose.

    Amazing these kind of truths are so hard to handle with some people.:rolleyes:
    there were two famines in ireland in the second one it is to be believed up to two million people emergrated ,most went to england and then onto the USA, canada and ausrtalia by ship from liverpool,in the first famine there is very little record of how many irish people emergrated,but if you read dickenses reforming novels,he states at the time that one quarter of londons population was irish so i million is not far from the truth


  • #229
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    On June 21, 1847, the British government, intending to aid besieged Liverpool, passed a tough new law allowing local authorities to deport homeless Irish back to Ireland. Within days, the first boatloads of paupers were being returned to Dublin and Cork, then abandoned on the docks. Orders for removal were issued by the hundreds. About 15,000 Irish were dragged out of filthy cellars and lodging houses and sent home even if they were ill with fever

    When they robbed their land from them for the price of the fare


  • #230
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    mysterious wrote: »
    Maybe you could answer the questions and assertions I put towards you, instead of been hypocritical and patently swinging from the tree pointing out judgments like you really are the one to call the shots here, all you have done is stated your belief. and you have ignored the facts that were put forward to you, because you choosed "to believe it's not true".

    shakes head.

    Unfortunately you have not presented an argument other than 'of course it was a genocide, how could be such a neo imperialist to suggest is otherwise'. I'm afraid I'm unable to respond to such an argument. :)


  • #231
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Denerick wrote: »
    Hi again!

    Once again you have stated a number of bland generalities, and have juxtaposed the actions of the modern American military with the British Empire in Ireland in the 1840s. Unfortunately your post contained no prevailing argument other than an assertment of political faith ('we suffered genocide by the British') Unfortunately you leave no room for people to engage in a reasoned argument with you, as much as we'd like to. :)

    How would you feel about the famine being described as a holocaust?


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  • #232
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    getz wrote: »
    there were two famines in ireland in the second one it is to be believed up to two million people emergrated ,most went to england and then onto the USA, canada and ausrtalia by ship from liverpool,in the first famine there is very little record of how many irish people emergrated,but if you read dickenses reforming novels,he states at the time that one quarter of londons population was irish so i million is not far from the truth

    between 1841 and 1851 the population only dropped by at most 2million. One million died and one million left approx. It was long after as time went on nuimbers continuesly left the country.

    We are talking famine times, and a million is nowhere near the figure that went to England, and USA had by far the largest immigration numbers to tat country by the Irish famine survivors. That was at most touching a million.

    If you blow up a balloon to much it will burst, so there is no point trying to exaggerate the size, when you know there is only so much air that will fit.

    It's like facts, people can try beef up their conditioned belief system on matters by adding more and more beliefs onto the fact and make it all convincing.

    But as usual, I'm been around long enough to spot this a mile away. Because I think.


  • #233
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    mysterious wrote: »
    Please don't create dis info and put a string of sentences that are completely not true and then state I said it as if I'm in agreement with you. It's call blasphemy.

    Death to those who blaspheme against mysterious, the one true God. :pac:


  • #234
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    How would you feel about the famine being described as a holocaust?

    By defination no.


  • #235
    RoboClam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭RoboClam


    mysterious wrote: »
    all you have done is stated your belief.

    But it'd OK when you do this in every other thread?

    He has argued his position throughout this thread and has presented facts, not just beliefs.


  • #236
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    yekahs wrote: »
    Death to those who blaspheme against mysterious, the one true God. :pac:


    Carefull now, he might be a vengfull god, and smite thy.


  • #237
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Denerick wrote: »
    Unfortunately you have not presented an argument other than 'of course it was a genocide, how could be such a neo imperialist to suggest is otherwise'. I'm afraid I'm unable to respond to such an argument. :)

    See I'm pretty straighforward and can see things objectively.

    Genocide doesnt need to sound complicated. You need to realise genocide is not a new age phenonemon that happens in third world countries. Eugenices and Genocide is one of the best ways to control the masses.

    Thats' of course if you actually pay attention to the real history of the world. I would imagine you take the mainstream view of history as blatancy and bible because thats what you come accross to me as. Most of our educational taught history books are complete nonsense. Why because they will only ever give one side to the story, the side that they want to drill us wiith.

    like you know how the American government has brainwashed the American people about fighting wars for freedom. This crap will be taught in schools now.

    I am just really damn good at seeing through the bull. Like a dart hitting the bulls eye. Probably why some people get upset when I ruin the game plan by just exposing the bullsheet for what it is.

    Your comment was funny I have to say especially with all the smileys at the end of the post. What is your overall point to this thread. Your still on the fense on this issue, and nobody is the fault of that but yourself.

    Try and answer Brown Bombers question:D


  • #238
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    mysterious wrote: »
    between 1841 and 1851 the population only dropped by at most 2million. One million died and one million left approx. It was long after as time went on nuimbers continuesly left the country.

    We are talking famine times, and a million is nowhere near the figure that went to England, and USA had by far the largest immigration numbers to tat country by the Irish famine survivors. That was at most touching a million.

    If you blow up a balloon to much it will burst, so there is no point trying to exaggerate the size, when you know there is only so much air that will fit.

    It's like facts, people can try beef up their conditioned belief system on matters by adding more and more beliefs onto the fact and make it all convincing.

    But as usual, I'm been around long enough to spot this a mile away. Because I think.
    i thinks one should check out manchester university reserch on this subject,their reserch comes up with the number of up to 2 million


  • #239
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    By defination no.

    Well, here is the definition

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holocaust

    hol·o·caust (hobreve.giflprime.gifschwa.gif-kôstlprime.gif, homacr.gifprime.giflschwa.gif-)n.1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire.
    2. a. Holocaust The genocide of European Jews and others by the Nazis during World War II: "Israel emerged from the Holocaust and is defined in relation to that catastrophe" (Emanuel Litvinoff).
    b. A massive slaughter: "an important document in the so-far sketchy annals of the Cambodian holocaust" (Rod Nordland).

    3. A sacrificial offering that is consumed entirely by flames.
    Usage Note: Holocaust has a secure place in the language when it refers to the massive destruction of humans by other humans. Ninety-nine percent of the Usage Panel accepts the use of holocaust in the phrase nuclear holocaust. Sixty percent of the Panel accepts the sentence As many as two million people may have died in the holocaust that followed the Khmer Rouge takeover in Cambodia. But because of its associations with genocide, people may object to extended applications of holocaust. When the word is used to refer to death brought about by natural causes, the percentage of the Panel accepting drops sharply. Only 31 percent of the Panel approves the sentence In East Africa five years of drought have brought about a holocaust in which millions have died. In a 1987 survey, just 11 percent approved the use of holocaust to summarize the effects of the AIDS epidemic




    For arguments sake 1 in 3 of the panel refer to a holocaust as death brough about by natural causes. And this is not a matter of dispute for any of us.

    Obviously the the destruction of the potatoe blight wasn't caused by humans but I would consider there to be more than just the potatoe blight factor as the sum cause of the "destruction" to human life.


  • #240
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    RoboClam wrote: »
    But it'd OK when you do this in every other thread?

    He has argued his position throughout this thread and has presented facts, not just beliefs.

    lol. I've told the facts on pretty much everything. I state my beliefs and opinions where i don't have facts. I'm really honest in that stance.

    You see I do reserach and don't rely on authority, teachers, scientist to find out whats real.

    He has only said his belief, because I asked him on it and he wont answer my question or back up his statement. He actually doesn't even sound sure of himself on his points. He hasn't really given much points.

    Other than, "No the British government could never cause genocide or do this terrible act".

    The horror, is oh no nobody in power could ever do soemthing so sinister. thats utterance of just a conditioned belief system and we are all victim to these belief systems. Because we are told and taught in school what to believe.. The facts are, genocide, holocauists and very horrific events have happened in our past that have been created by royal families, superpowers and tyranny goverments and it has never changed in history.

    The Irish famine isn't an exception to this rule. I understand this is so painful for many of you to actually think about. But I like getting to the root of things. And in that you realise that all events in history were planned of provoked.

    The greatest truth is, we didn't create history, it's people in position of power who wrote history and we followed it. In most cases, they directed millions to the slaughter.


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  • #241
    Lab_Mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Lab_Mouse


    yekahs wrote: »
    Death to those who blaspheme against mysterious, the one true God. :pac:
    oh sh1t I'm fukked so:eek:

    I think we are all aware of irelands history with britain.I think the problem is to what extent Britain was cupable.My person opinion on what I have read/seen over the years about the famine was that it was gross indifferrence(insert not giving a sh1t if you want) on the part of the brits and their insistance on the government not interfering with trade.

    Genoicide/holocaust no,but a man made famine which could of been avoided by a few people that had the power to interfer for the better but didnt,yes.

    Irrespective of which side you take it did shape our history and our identity as a group of people


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