Students must now pay to attend their own conferrings. Eh...what?

PhatPiggins · 13-04-2010 11:24PM

So there will be no food at the grads?

Do the SU have a time machine as they have marched on 7/10/10?

What is their test dummie going to do when A. He/she is refused entry and/or B. Is left sitting like a tool when their name isn't called?

Fair fcks at least they're having a go at it and I cant wait to see what surprises they have for their targeted victims.

jacko1 · 14-04-2010 12:02PM

campaigning to have the fee reduced is a tacit acceptance of it !

surely the SU should also get the wider college community against it. Can su reps put down a motion against it at the Academic Committee they sit on and ask lecturers to support them ?

hardybuck · 14-04-2010 12:20PM

Having attended my own graduation I can't see where the €65 is going, there is definitely profit being taken on this. The scroll itself is a nice document, but aside from that the whole thing is nothing special.

You have a speech from the Pres, normally then a guest speaker then who do it for free, then you get some tea coffee and some finger food which you eat standing up. Love to see a breakdown of where €65 is being spent on that.

Can't remember what we paid for gowns-but they cost a small fortune, as does framing your degree and getting photos taken. The whole day is a rip-off but they know the vast majority of people will cough up.

Murphy didn't even shake our hands when we recieved our scroll incase he gave us swine flu. What a joke.

Eliot Rosewater · 14-04-2010 12:23PM

jacko1 wrote: »

Can su reps put down a motion against it at the Academic Committee they sit on and ask lecturers to support them ?

Why would lecturers support the free fees system? It just results in less funding for them.

SU Press Release wrote:

The Students’ Unions of UCC and CIT held a protest through Cork City on 7 October 2010 to protest the financial burdens being placed unequally on students.

I find that funny. Get the students to pay 25% of the price of their own degree and its inequality.

jacko1 · 14-04-2010 12:41PM

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Why would lecturers support the free fees system? It just results in less funding for them.

I find that funny. Get the students to pay 25% of the price of their own degree and its inequality.

I would imagine that a lot of lecturers are left of centre leaning, believe in free third level and would not support the imposition of the charge

samf · 14-04-2010 12:52PM

Also, the Students’ Union requested that the income earned by the University from gown hire and photography should be taken into account when looking at the cost of the conferrings and that if a fee had to be charged that it should only be the shortfall between income and expenditure. The SU were later informed that income from the conferrings could not be taken into account when calculating the graduation fee because “it had already been allocated in the budget”

This piece is crucial. The university are therefore saying that the €200k cost of the graduations do not whatsoever take into account the income from it. Who's to say the income from the conferrings isn't huge? I'd imagine UCC get quite a lot from the gowns and photographers, especially since they charge so much to students, they must be paying a fair sum to UCC for the privilege.

jacko1 wrote:

campaigning to have the fee reduced is a tacit acceptance of it !

No, its a tactic to reduce the cost enough so that the conferring fee cant be justified as an additional fee:

Our objective is to identify all costs (once provided with a breakdown) and eliminate them and thus eliminate the charge or reduce it to a level where it cannot be justified as an external charge to the registration fee.

So without the devere hall rental costs, and without the catering costs (lets face it, no one would be too upset if they cut the finger food, everyone goes for a meal after anyway), the 200k figure should be a lot lower, and then when the income is taken into account, how much is left? Not much i'd guess.

deRanged · 14-04-2010 02:13PM

the protest:

thebigcheese22 · 14-04-2010 03:05PM

^ First time I've ever seen YFG protesting, kind of a shocking thing to see really! Fair play to them like, but its obviously shameless political opportunism. Just surprised the Socialists or anarchists didn't get in there before them

Byron85 · 14-04-2010 03:11PM

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

^ First time I've ever seen YFG protesting, kind of a shocking thing to see really! Fair play to them like, but its obviously shameless political opportunism.

Is that why Labour didn't get involved??

thebigcheese22 · 14-04-2010 03:17PM

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Is that why Labour didn't get involved??

Nah, we have bigger fish to fry!

Ah no, a fair few of our members went today and the society encouraged people to go. Even if YFG get the credit, its for the greater good!

Byron85 · 14-04-2010 03:28PM

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Nah, we have bigger fish to fry! Ah no, a fair few of our members went today and the society encouraged people to go. Even if YFG get the credit, its for the greater good!

In fairness, it's good to see people get proactive, even if I completely disagree with what they're protesting against. I'm in receipt of a full grant and other payments but I wouldn't have a problem paying the €65 at all. Granted, what the money will be used for needs to be broken down and disseminated among the student body. Also, now is a chance to restructure where the money from the registration fees goes to. There should be less money going to certain structures within the college, the chaplaincy being one, and more money going to others. I think overall that people are getting their priorities rather confused without realising.

rebel girl 15 · 14-04-2010 10:24PM

More politicians coming out against it

http://www.corkstudentnews.com/news/frontbench-tds-get-behind-fee-protest/

samf · 15-04-2010 11:45AM

More press coverage:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ucc-president-to-meet-students-about-fee-plans-117252.html

I'd imagine UCC will have to do something about it now, its getting too much bad press for them, and they're under a lot of pressure. I'd be very surprised if the €65 sticks as is.

PhatPiggins · 15-04-2010 01:16PM

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

In fairness, it's good to see people get proactive, even if I completely disagree with what they're protesting against. I'm in receipt of a full grant and other payments but I wouldn't have a problem paying the €65 at all. Granted, what the money will be used for needs to be broken down and disseminated among the student body. Also, now is a chance to restructure where the money from the registration fees goes to. There should be less money going to certain structures within the college, the chaplaincy being one, and more money going to others. I think overall that people are getting their priorities rather confused without realising.

With all due respect I enjoy you reasoned posts but when you actually have to pay for your education come back and tell me why you disagree with our protests.

I have to pay full fee's, registration and so on. Personally I'd rather burn the €65 then hand it over. I completely agree with your point regarding restructuring the destination of funds.

Byron85 · 15-04-2010 01:41PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

With all due respect I enjoy you reasoned posts but when you actually have to pay for your education come back and tell me why you disagree with our protests.

I have to pay full fee's, registration and so on. Personally I'd rather burn the €65 then hand it over. I completely agree with your point regarding restructuring the destination of funds.

No problem. I see where you're coming from.

kingstapler · 18-04-2010 05:03PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

With all due respect I enjoy you reasoned posts but when you actually have to pay for your education come back and tell me why you disagree with our protests.

I have to pay full fee's, registration and so on. Personally I'd rather burn the €65 then hand it over. I completely agree with your point regarding restructuring the destination of funds.

You know, thats quite right, we all have enough to pay these days than to have to told theres another 65 to pay at the end. Sure we weren't even told about it when we all signed up like.

Papa_Lazarou · 10-05-2010 06:00PM

University Management Team Defer Graduation Fee

UCC's Management Team have decided to defer a controversial €65 charge to graduate from the University.

The fee will not be charged to those graduating in 2010.

The decision came after intense opposition from students, members of UCC's Governing Body and the UCC Students' Union.

Negotiations will continue next week between the University and the Students' Union concerning students due to graduate in 2011 and beyond.

The University said they have no other choice but to charge for graduation ceremonies as a result of crippling cuts in government spending on third level education.

UCC SU President Eoin Hayes said:

"While we are delighted that students will not have to pay this charge in 2010 it is still a source of huge disappointment that the University has been placed in a position where it needs to charge for something as sacred as conferring ceremonies"

"This is an initial victory for students currently in final year but we will continue to work on eliminating or reducing the fee for future years and discussions with the University will continue next week".

"We are not going to rest on this issue. The Government expects Universities to operate on skeleton budgets and in turn the Universities expect students to subsise them. This goes against the Programme for Government and the supposed Government policy of "Free Fees" and is not a solution to any problem. The Green Party have been fooled into remaining in Government by a false promise"

"Considering the majority of the Cabinet went to University, you would think they would be able to recognise when to invest in education. It is common sense you should invest in education in a down-turn in order to be able to take advantage of the economy recovery when it inevitably happens. This government is merely using creative accounting to suggest it is supporting a "Knowledge Economy". Any such statement is a falsehood and should be a source of embarrassment for the Green Party".

From collegeroad.ie

Fee defered for consideration next year so if you are graduating this year you won't have to pay for it!

rebel girl 15 · 10-05-2010 06:36PM

Dear Student,

Having considered further the policy of charging a fee for this year’s conferring ceremonies, the University Management Team has decided, in the face of the significant and continuing reductions in exchequer funding, that it has no option but to cover the costs of the conferring ceremonies through the levy of a modest fee.

However, following representations on behalf of the Students’ Union Executive by the President of the Students’ Union, Mr Eoin Hayes, and acknowledgement by the University of the late notification to current final year students of the fee, the University Management Team has decided to defer the introduction of the charge for conferring ceremonies for students graduating in the current academic year.

Discussions are ongoing with the Students’ Union to identify ways in which conferral costs might be reduced further. Details of the fee and arrangements for conferring in the 2010-11 academic year will be notified in due course to all students graduating next year.

Kind regards,

The Office of Media & Communications

UCC

The email sent to students about it

Jay P · 10-05-2010 08:00PM

Details of the fee and arrangements for conferring in the 2010-11 academic year will be notified in due course to all students graduating next year.

I can't see this meaning anything other than "You'll all be paying fees from next year."

Aodan83 · 10-05-2010 08:12PM

Jay P wrote: »

I can't see this meaning anything other than "You'll all be paying fees from next year."

Thats pretty much it, ya.

However, following representations ... by the President of the Students’ Union, Mr Eoin Hayes, and acknowledgement by the University of the late notification to current final year students of the fee, the University Management Team has decided to defer the introduction of the charge for conferring ceremonies for students graduating in the current academic year.

Seems the only reason it's not being charged this year is because it was announced so late.

Nova_era · 10-05-2010 08:43PM

Money well spent really, €65 for a University Degree?

In seriousness however, it is shocking that they are allowed come along with this kind of thing, but in the long term I would rather pay these one off fees then have to deal with the prospect of overall University fees, which currently the majority of us are lucky enough not to be paying.

It is another knock on effect of the Government decision not to reintroduce fees unfortunatly, as the Universities take the oppertunity to raise their own internal fees as they wish. It would not be surprising to see a large rise in the registration fee next year, if not certainly over the next few years.

And in the case of TWH Byron, is not a bit unfair that would give out about people complaining about the introduction of these new fee, considering the fuss you make whenever a reduction in the grant is mentioned?

Aodan83 · 10-05-2010 08:47PM

Nova_era wrote: »

In seriousness however, it is shocking that they are allowed come along with this kind of thing, but in the long term I would rather pay these one off fees then have to deal with the prospect of overall University fees, which currently the majority of us are lucky enough not to be paying.

Actually, now that you mention that, whats the deal with the uni fees, are they being introduced or what? And for people who are paying full fees already, would it not be fairer that they don't have to pay for their own graduation as well? I'm sure most of these people will have had a hard enough time getting through college in the first place!

Jay P · 10-05-2010 08:51PM

Nova_era wrote: »

Money well spent really, €65 for a University Degree?

In seriousness however, it is shocking that they are allowed come along with this kind of thing, but in the long term I would rather pay these one off fees then have to deal with the prospect of overall University fees, which currently the majority of us are lucky enough not to be paying.

It is another knock on effect of the Government decision not to reintroduce fees unfortunatly, as the Universities take the oppertunity to raise their own internal fees as they wish. It would not be surprising to see a large rise in the registration fee next year, if not certainly over the next few years.

It's only hearsay, but I've heard it's pretty much going to be doubled... I can't give any proper sources, but to be honest, I'm not wholly surprised.

Nova_era · 10-05-2010 08:53PM

Aodan83 wrote: »

Actually, now that you mention that, whats the deal with the uni fees, are they being introduced or what? And for people who are paying full fees already, would it not be fairer that they don't have to pay for their own graduation as well? I'm sure most of these people will have had a hard enough time getting through college in the first place!

As far as I can remember, the Green Party insisted that the re-intoduction of third level fees be shelved, as a condition of their continuation in the coalition government. It was a symbolic move as such, but one which is sure to have ensured an increase in popularity for the Greens among the student population, if only in the short run.

However while the government ensured students that fees would not be re-introduced in the near future, the introduction of other internal fees was the decision of the Universities themselves. This conferral fee would appear to be the first of those within UCC.

You're absolutely correct about the students currently paying fees. There should be some rule in place to ensure that students must not end up paying both the government fees and the new fees which will be introduced by the university. It must be one or the other.

PhatPiggins · 11-05-2010 12:22PM

Nova_era wrote: »

Money well spent really, €65 for a University Degree?

In seriousness however, it is shocking that they are allowed come along with this kind of thing, but in the long term I would rather pay these one off fees then have to deal with the prospect of overall University fees, which currently the majority of us are lucky enough not to be paying.

It is another knock on effect of the Government decision not to reintroduce fees unfortunatly, as the Universities take the oppertunity to raise their own internal fees as they wish. It would not be surprising to see a large rise in the registration fee next year, if not certainly over the next few years.

And in the case of TWH Byron, is not a bit unfair that would give out about people complaining about the introduction of these new fee, considering the fuss you make whenever a reduction in the grant is mentioned?

My main gripe with one off fees is not only will they increase in number and frequency is that there will be the issue of whether or not they will be removed when full fees are reintroduced. Reallistically I think they will have to be.

Say for example we have the registration fee, graduation fee, fee's for grad fairs, etc and the government reintroduce funding. The University are still going to need the money from the smaller stealth fee's as well as the overall University fee's. I cant see them removing any fee's once they're in place.

Lets be reallistic UCC aren't short of funding solely because of government cutbacks, the waste and mismanagement have been well discussed, they're always going to need more money and as we've repeatedly seen they always pass the charge on to us.

I'm so opposed to these stealth fee's purely because once they're introduced they've set a precedent and they're there to stay permanently.

Nova_era · 11-05-2010 01:31PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

My main gripe with one off fees is not only will they increase in number and frequency is that there will be the issue of whether or not they will be removed when full fees are reintroduced. Reallistically I think they will have to be.

Say for example we have the registration fee, graduation fee, fee's for grad fairs, etc and the government reintroduce funding. The University are still going to need the money from the smaller stealth fee's as well as the overall University fee's. I cant see them removing any fee's once they're in place.

Lets be reallistic UCC aren't short of funding solely because of government cutbacks, the waste and mismanagement have been well discussed, they're always going to need more money and as we've repeatedly seen they always pass the charge on to us.

I'm so opposed to these stealth fee's purely because once they're introduced they've set a precedent and they're there to stay permanently.

The annoying thing is though, they don't need to even be stealth fees. UCC aren't breaking any rules by introducing these ridiculous new one off fees, it was even admitted by the government that universities were well within their rights to do so.

Currently, demand for 3rd level places is higher than it ever was, so UCC know that they can introduce new fees all across the board, and it won't affect the numbers applying to the university. They most certainly will not be mentioning conferring and printing fees in their prospectus' over the coming few years.

It's extremely unlikely that people are going to start snubbing UCC and going to UCD/UL etc just to avoid printing fees. UCC and the powers that be are well aware that they have students in the palm of their hands, and there's nothing we can do about it.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind paying the extra fees IF we were getting something visible back, i.e. extended library opening hours, at least during exam periods. I don't agree with extended opening hours during term time, but the ques outside the Reading Room every evening signify that there is both demand and a need for late night study areas for students. While the current library staff may object to working over night, I am sure that there are hundreds who would jump at the chance of a job, even if it does mean sitting in a library overnight.

PhatPiggins · 11-05-2010 02:42PM

Nova_era wrote: »

The annoying thing is though, they don't need to even be stealth fees. UCC aren't breaking any rules by introducing these ridiculous new one off fees, it was even admitted by the government that universities were well within their rights to do so.

Currently, demand for 3rd level places is higher than it ever was, so UCC know that they can introduce new fees all across the board, and it won't affect the numbers applying to the university. They most certainly will not be mentioning conferring and printing fees in their prospectus' over the coming few years.

It's extremely unlikely that people are going to start snubbing UCC and going to UCD/UL etc just to avoid printing fees. UCC and the powers that be are well aware that they have students in the palm of their hands, and there's nothing we can do about it.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind paying the extra fees IF we were getting something visible back, i.e. extended library opening hours, at least during exam periods. I don't agree with extended opening hours during term time, but the ques outside the Reading Room every evening signify that there is both demand and a need for late night study areas for students. While the current library staff may object to working over night, I am sure that there are hundreds who would jump at the chance of a job, even if it does mean sitting in a library overnight.

Thats the thing though there is nothing extra coming back, they're struggling to maintain current standards. I asked the lad who surpervises the Quad room about extra opening hours, he informed me that the library was all for it but the governement employment embargo prevents them from replacing the retiring/leaving staff so there is no possibility of creating new positions.

I emailed the Student Union about opening study rooms in the SC or even the Common room just for the exam periods but got no response.

They's always something you can do against University decesions. Rolling over on your back and sticking your legs in the air is exactly what they expect Students to do.

Nova_era · 11-05-2010 03:33PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Thats the thing though there is nothing extra coming back, they're struggling to maintain current standards. I asked the lad who surpervises the Quad room about extra opening hours, he informed me that the library was all for it but the governement employment embargo prevents them from replacing the retiring/leaving staff so there is no possibility of creating new positions.

I emailed the Student Union about opening study rooms in the SC or even the Common room just for the exam periods but got no response.

They's always something you can do against University decesions. Rolling over on your back and sticking your legs in the air is exactly what they expect Students to do.

I'd like to think you're right, but at the end of the day, the University will have the final say. If students go off protesting about every decision they make, then surely disciplinary measures would come into action.

However, what you say is proven by UCC's decision to defer the introduction of the conferring payment until next year. Had it not been for the student outcry, and the SU, then the graduates of this year would be paying it. So that is a victory and most certainly a step in the right direction.

As far as I know it's the Su who are responsible for the opening of the Campus Kitchen for studying at the weekends? If so, would they not work towards having it opened on late nights in addition to weekends, to fill that void. The Quadrangle reading room is really too small to deal with demand. If there is going to be one room open late at night for students to study, could it not be a large room such as the Devere Hall or the Campus Kitchen?

PhatPiggins · 11-05-2010 04:24PM

Nova_era wrote: »

I'd like to think you're right, but at the end of the day, the University will have the final say. If students go off protesting about every decision they make, then surely disciplinary measures would come into action.

However, what you say is proven by UCC's decision to defer the introduction of the conferring payment until next year. Had it not been for the student outcry, and the SU, then the graduates of this year would be paying it. So that is a victory and most certainly a step in the right direction.

As far as I know it's the Su who are responsible for the opening of the Campus Kitchen for studying at the weekends? If so, would they not work towards having it opened on late nights in addition to weekends, to fill that void. The Quadrangle reading room is really too small to deal with demand. If there is going to be one room open late at night for students to study, could it not be a large room such as the Devere Hall or the Campus Kitchen?

Regarding the Campus Kitchen I believe they are but does it stay open beyond 10? I'll admit my ignorance as I've never used it. You'd think the Devere Hall would be ideal.

How do you discipline a mass of people for voicing their opinion? Especially when they're supported by politicians. Todays Students are tomorrows governement(paymasters) and while short term the Uni may have the wood on us a large part of their funding comes from donations so they'll be slow to piss off the student body too much.

Most of all Universitys in general hate bad press. I thought the press coverage of the Grad fee was a big factor in their decision to defer it.

Nova_era · 11-05-2010 08:39PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

How do you discipline a mass of people for voicing their opinion?

The Soviet Union had one or two ways to deal with it.

As regards the bad publicity, I really don't think the university will be too concerned about that; the powers that be, who are certainly not the students, are more than likely to sympathize with the university, who's costs are going up and their debt expanding. The bad publicity is unlikely to affect the opinions of prospective students, and indeed many will have already filled in UCC as their number 1 choice for the coming academic year. The whole thing will have died down by the time the next CAO year comes, and things will be back to normal, with these fees in place.

The Campus Kitchen is open til 10 on Saturday and Sunday, but I'm not sure what the story during the week is. It is certainly not "late" opening though, as that would have been well advertised. To be honest I'd much rather see the Devere Hall used; the Campus Kitchen is a horrible place.

The SU need to take their involvement in the Student Centre by the balls and start using it to its full potential; the bar is open until around 11 each night, so the Devere Hall should in theory be available as a study area until at least then. It is more than likely an hour or so before staff leave the Centre, so would it not be ok to allow people study until the building is closing for the night?

Students must now pay to attend their own conferrings. Eh...what?

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