WHY is Ireland so expensive??

daithicarr · 08-04-2010 08:35PM

yeah i think the fact that ireland hasnt had a economic boom in living memory ( i think the late 19th century was the last time we had good times) was a major factor, we just lost the run of ourselves and decided that instead of 5 quid buying you two pint and a bag of tayto with some change left over, it would be just as good pay 5 quid for one drink

letitroll · 08-04-2010 09:04PM

when a country truly believes a modest two bed apartment with yearly managment charge of 2,500euro is worth nearly half a million euro anyhting is possible

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/gallery-quay-grand-canal-dock-dublin-2/131629

NUIG_FiannaFail · 08-04-2010 09:21PM

Greedy teachers and other public sector workers who refuse to put their shoulder to the wheel.

avalon68 · 09-04-2010 12:14AM

Cato78 wrote: »

Interesting. I've never heard that before. I can see it being the case if you're in L.A. or NYC. Are you living in either area?

Neither, Im in New England. NH to be more specific

Welease · 09-04-2010 12:19AM

letitroll wrote: »

when a country truly believes a modest two bed apartment with yearly managment charge of 2,500euro is worth nearly half a million euro anyhting is possible

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/gallery-quay-grand-canal-dock-dublin-2/131629

DUDE... there's carpet in the bedrooms.....

bigeasyeah · 09-04-2010 12:23AM

Why? Because we pay.

galwaydude · 09-04-2010 12:38AM

Have to say i agree with avalon68. I live in MA and it is significantly more expensive than ireland.

Heath insurance, daycare, rent, broadband, phone and tv and public transport are more expensive than ireland by alot in some cases.

Car insurance, food, cloths are pretty much the same depending on where you shop of course.

Electricity and Gas is a small bit cheaper in New England.

E.T. · 09-04-2010 12:48AM

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

Greedy teachers and other public sector workers who refuse to put their shoulder to the wheel.

Wow. That's a stunning argument. Explains absolutely everything. Damn those teachers in their Lamborghinis and holiday homes here there and everywhere. Totally explains the cost of everything here.:D

maninasia · 09-04-2010 06:35AM

Being an island had something to do with it but the main reason was cheap and easy credit..just allowed people to borrow and spend without worrying about paying back (for a while at least).
Costs are coming down now in Ireland.

In addition you have to try and compared 'like with like', as other posters said there are many cities and areas in the US that are more expensive than Ireland.

Also, food in the US is crap, processed, full of salt and sugar, made cheaply and sold cheaply...it's not quality stuff. Not that Pizza Hut would be any better here but you need to live in Europe and you will see the food quality is better, and that costs more. You could look at the UK, food is cheaper there, but it follows US style, pile it high and sell it cheap. You just can't look at a survey and tell that important fact.

There are cheap supermarkets in Ireland, almost as cheap as Walmart but better quality (LIDL/ALDI). Deliveries of fast food are currently expensive as they are still cheaper than eating out (due to minimum wage bill of servers/no tipping/high govt services cost for restaurants). In general income tax is low in Ireland but VAT and other taxes are high. It's a different set-up.

Many jobs still pay fairly well in Ireland, it's getting a job that counts.

newman10 · 09-04-2010 10:52AM

Have seen anybody mention the cost of Education.

I would prefer to send 3 kids to UCC than to college in the US

murphaph · 09-04-2010 11:07AM

The cost of education is surely lower in Ireland, to the end user, but it is paid out of taxation, so we still pay handsomely for it.

US universities however are quite often in a different league than Irish ones, especially in the technology sector. Ireland has nothing to compare to MIT or Berkeley etc. Sure many technologies we use everyday were invented in American universities! They fund them to the nth degree as they know it takes money to make money. Irish universities by comparison receive a pittance in funding for equipment etc. A lot of it goes on lecturers salaries of course!

gurramok · 09-04-2010 11:08AM

Cato78 wrote:

Also, the housing prices seem to be pretty decent nowadays. They're certainly much better than what we've found in the Netherlands, which is another country we're considering.

There is a reason why Holland has sky high house prices. They have the highest density population in Europe, Ireland has the lowest density. Think about that one.

Florida is a high demand area for housing, you cannot compare a house in Florida to a house here based on price alone. Houses are much larger in Florida than our sub 125sqm ones. And you pay property taxes on housing in the US, you do not here.(only on transaction that is stamp duty)

zielarz · 09-04-2010 11:54PM

I would add generous welfare which is keeping prices/rents high.
Crazy high excise and VAT which is more than 60% of the total price of petrol. This increases prices of almost everything..

ei.sdraob wrote: »

well @OP since your comparing USA to Ireland, here goes:

* highly dependant of foreign fuel for transport and energy (and i mean highly!), Unlike US where large chunk of oil/gas demand is filled from domestic sources, this high a knockon effect on everything

* much higher minimum wage pushing up all prices in everything across the board, people say we need them since its so expensive to live here (good argument but it ignores the other side of equation), but they are forgetting that whenever this rises prices go up across the board (classic wage<>price spiral)

* higher cost of public service, example teachers starting off on 10k more here than UK

* not as large economies of scale as US, where corporations like WalMart can grow big and expand and streamline their supply chain to the nth degree

* crazy taxation system with alot of quirks

* the government actively conspiring and perversely holding up the property/rental market not allowing it to become cheaper and in process putting businesses out of business

you mentioned an example of pizza plus delivery being 4times as much, im not surprised

by time you factor in the cost due to expensive fuel, electric, wages and rents and of course VAT, im not surprised at all

one thing about the US is that prices are usually displayed exVAT and you pay it on the till, so there's a psychological aspect too, and of course the exchange rate has been all over the shop in last few years

southsiderosie · 10-04-2010 12:17AM

My experience is based on being a single person with no children. So basically I am responsible for rent, public transportation, food, utilities and going out.

In the last 6 years, I've lived in Miami, Boston, Madrid, and Dublin, and Dublin at the TAIL end of the boom is the most expensive place I've been.

The cost of going out is astronomical, especially to restaurants - and the Dublin dining scene cannot hold a candle to what you would get in most American cities. And for a city supposedly experiencing a housing glut, it costs a hell of a lot of money to live within 30 minutes of the city center. Honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that Irish consumers don't seem to be particularly price-sensitive. People here pay way too much money for drafty houses, bad food and ****ty service. American consumers are FAR more demanding than their Irish counterparts, and it shows up in the pricing, especially in the service sector.

kieran26 · 10-04-2010 12:38AM

it has alot to do with economies of scale the smaller the market the higher the price etc also some of it is greed on behalf of retailers but in america you are charged for different things ie; some companys charge you for receiving phonecalls which seems ridiculous over here! healthcare unless you have insurance is very basic and fees for university are massive but i do accept the standard of third level education in fee paying colleges is far superior than what some irish colleges offer! Both countrys have their up and down sides i suppose American service industrys eg resturaunts are better all round and the staff friendlier but the staff relyon tips tomake a living!the staff in ireland don't need to be excellent because they get minimum wage no matter how bad they are

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 12:50AM

avalon68 wrote: »

Neither, Im in New England. NH to be more specific

Yeah, New England is in general a more expensive area. Though while I knew Massachusettes was quite pricey, I didn't realize New Hampshire was. RONH?

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 12:57AM

galwaydude wrote: »

Have to say i agree with avalon68. I live in MA and it is significantly more expensive than ireland.

Heath insurance, daycare, rent, broadband, phone and tv and public transport are more expensive than ireland by alot in some cases.

Car insurance, food, cloths are pretty much the same depending on where you shop of course.

Electricity and Gas is a small bit cheaper in New England.

I believe MA is one of the most expensive states in the union. I've never been personally. If you get health insurance through your job here, it's pretty good, otherwise it's AWFUL. The deductible is quite high and the premium isn't pretty either. You have to get REALLY sick or go to the Dr. three times a month for it to be worth it. I'm self employed and don't have insurance because of this reason. Daycare is certainly much different here, as there are no taxes going toward it. I believe it's free or at reduced cost in much of Europe, if I'm not mistaken?

I'm surprised that you've found food and clothes to be about the same. The prices I've been quoted by Irish people seem to be a good deal higher than what I pay here. Though things are usually cheaper here in the south.....but salaries also tend to be lower.

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 01:01AM

newman10 wrote: »

Have seen anybody mention the cost of Education.

I would prefer to send 3 kids to UCC than to college in the US

I prefer the European model of lower cost or free college funded by taxation. College here is VERY expensive. In general, you are very much on your own here in America. Some people prefer this model and that's fine. For me personally, I prefer the European model.

We actually just had nationwide protests here on college campuses as the universities began raising tuition by huge amounts. :rolleyes:

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 01:08AM

kieran26 wrote: »

it has alot to do with economies of scale the smaller the market the higher the price etc also some of it is greed on behalf of retailers but in america you are charged for different things ie; some companys charge you for receiving phonecalls which seems ridiculous over here! healthcare unless you have insurance is very basic and fees for university are massive but i do accept the standard of third level education in fee paying colleges is far superior than what some irish colleges offer! Both countrys have their up and down sides i suppose American service industrys eg resturaunts are better all round and the staff friendlier but the staff relyon tips tomake a living!the staff in ireland don't need to be excellent because they get minimum wage no matter how bad they are

Ya know, you'd be surprised how tired you get of " good service " here, lol. Waiters or waitresses hardly leave you alone. It seems every two minutes they come by " How is it? Can I get you anything? Do you love it? " 2 minutes later " Still doing good guys? Everything taste good? " LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

One thing that bums me out ( do Irish people say that?? ) is it seems the cost of going out to eat there is very high. My girlfriend and I like to go out quite a bit and I LOOOVE steak. I can get a great 12oz steak with 2 sides for about 11euro. But hey, I've heard the quality of food there is much better, so maybe the beef is to die for.

avalon68 · 10-04-2010 01:19AM

Cato78 wrote: »

I prefer the European model of lower cost or free college funded by taxation. College here is VERY expensive. In general, you are very much on your own here in America. Some people prefer this model and that's fine. For me personally, I prefer the European model.

We actually just had nationwide protests here on college campuses as the universities began raising tuition by huge amounts. :rolleyes:

I cant speak about universities outside of Ireland, but I work in a university here in NH and the standard is waaaaayyyy higher than Irish universities. They are light years ahead. The grad students in the department have received a much better education here than students in Ireland do. If this is what Ireland is to compete with then we can kiss goodbye to our knowledge economy.....

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 01:25AM

gurramok wrote: »

There is a reason why Holland has sky high house prices. They have the highest density population in Europe, Ireland has the lowest density. Think about that one.

Florida is a high demand area for housing, you cannot compare a house in Florida to a house here based on price alone. Houses are much larger in Florida than our sub 125sqm ones. And you pay property taxes on housing in the US, you do not here.(only on transaction that is stamp duty)

No, I understand. I realize the reason for it. Still, it's depressing when you see a very small, oddly designed ( by US standards ) apartment going for 1300euro. Though you'd face the same problem if you lived in New York here.

Actually, Florida has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the nation. You can get some GREAT deals right now if you can get a loan. Many homes here have lost half their value, which sucks if you're upside down in a mortgage, but great if you're looking to buy and have a decent job.

One of the pros of Ireland over NL is the cost of housing. I can find a ton of really nice, furnished, 2 bedroom places in Co. Dublin for 800euro. Something of the same quality would run as much as 1500euro in Holland.

An interesting note about our insane property taxes. My home at the peak was valued at about $500,000, now it's closer to $300,000.....and yet my property taxes are still the same. Go figure.

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 01:31AM

avalon68 wrote: »

I cant speak about universities outside of Ireland, but I work in a university here in NH and the standard is waaaaayyyy higher than Irish universities. They are light years ahead. The grad students in the department have received a much better education here than students in Ireland do. If this is what Ireland is to compete with then we can kiss goodbye to our knowledge economy.....

Really? That's too bad. I went to college here ( a state university in Florida ) and I didn't feel that the quality was all that great. Not bad, but nothing to brag about. Though having never attended a college in Europe or having researched the issue, I have nothing to compare it to. I CAN say that our primary education is SORELY lacking. I went to school with numerous kids who in all honesty had no business graduating high school. A great many of them couldn't even spell very well. ( no exaggeration ) Again, I'm not sure how this compares to Europe or Ireland specifically, but I've always heard we lagged behind Europe in this aspect.

Cato78 · 10-04-2010 01:39AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

My experience is based on being a single person with no children. So basically I am responsible for rent, public transportation, food, utilities and going out.

In the last 6 years, I've lived in Miami, Boston, Madrid, and Dublin, and Dublin at the TAIL end of the boom is the most expensive place I've been.

The cost of going out is astronomical, especially to restaurants - and the Dublin dining scene cannot hold a candle to what you would get in most American cities. And for a city supposedly experiencing a housing glut, it costs a hell of a lot of money to live within 30 minutes of the city center. Honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that Irish consumers don't seem to be particularly price-sensitive. People here pay way too much money for drafty houses, bad food and ****ty service. American consumers are FAR more demanding than their Irish counterparts, and it shows up in the pricing, especially in the service sector.

This seems to contradict others experiences about New England being more costly. I know Boston is one of the more expensive cities in the entire country. Though since Europe tends to subsidize things like schooling, daycare, etc more, it may be that a single person finds Ireland more expensive while a parent of two might find Boston more expensive. My girlfriend and I have no children and no desire for any. Our expenses would be like yours: rent, utilities for 2, food, eating out, site seeing, etc. It definitely does seem that eating out is at least double the price over there.

avalon68 · 10-04-2010 01:43AM

Cato78 wrote: »

Really? That's too bad. I went to college here ( a state university in Florida ) and I didn't feel that the quality was all that great. Not bad, but nothing to brag about. Though having never attended a college in Europe or having researched the issue, I have nothing to compare it to. I CAN say that our primary education is SORELY lacking. I went to school with numerous kids who in all honesty had no business graduating high school. A great many of them couldn't even spell very well. ( no exaggeration ) Again, I'm not sure how this compares to Europe or Ireland specifically, but I've always heard we lagged behind Europe in this aspect.

Im not sure how primary and secondary would compare between the states and Ireland, but I was certainly shocked at the difference in standards between the universities. I dont think I would mind paying fees in Ireland if I got a better education for it.

southsiderosie · 10-04-2010 02:07AM

Cato78 wrote: »

Ya know, you'd be surprised how tired you get of " good service " here, lol. Waiters or waitresses hardly leave you alone. It seems every two minutes they come by " How is it? Can I get you anything? Do you love it? " 2 minutes later " Still doing good guys? Everything taste good? " LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

One thing that bums me out ( do Irish people say that?? ) is it seems the cost of going out to eat there is very high. My girlfriend and I like to go out quite a bit and I LOOOVE steak. I can get a great 12oz steak with 2 sides for about 11euro. But hey, I've heard the quality of food there is much better, so maybe the beef is to die for.

Haha, not much fawning here; the Irish are gracious enough to make you feel welcome, but not overwhelmed. And the beef is very good quality. It's just that in a restaurant it will be under-seasoned, overpriced, and brought to the table lukewarm.

One thing I noticed is that you were looking in Dublin county. I would highly recommend trying to find something 1) in the city center, or 2) on the Luas or the Dart. DO NOT LIVE ANYWHERE MORE THAN A 30 MINUTE WALK FROM THE CITY CENTER THAT ONLY HAS BUS SERVICE. It is a recipe for constant irritation.

As for New England, well, for what I paid to live in a huge beautiful Victorian house in Cambridge (12 minutes from Harvard), that had a back deck and a yard, and was close to the T, multiple bus lines, and several good "going out" squares, I paid to live in a house about an hour's walk from Trinity, where the village basically died as soon as the sun went down. Currently I am paying only slightly more than what I paid in Cambridge to live in a bedsit studio closer to town (i.e. single room with hot plate, no cable or internet, a hall bathroom, and a coin-operated shower).

I like Dublin a lot; I've made good friends here, and you can see great live bands relatively cheaply. But consumers here get ripped off big-time, and it's not clear to me that taxpayers are getting a lot for their money, other than aggravation. And it's a constant source of wonder for me why people haven't rebelled against both price-gouging and the government (although there has certainly been an up-tick in cross-border shopping).

maninasia · 10-04-2010 10:31AM

Mentioning food again. American beef tastes good, corn fed, but it's a different taste than Irish. Irish beef is grass fed, it depends if you like that or not. But Irish beef is (in theory at least) a lot more natural and healthier as they are raised out doors on fresh grass most of the year. Growth hormone is banned in the EU also. There's a reason you can get 12oz steak for 11 bucks....it's mass produced factory style.

Good places to get food in Ireland are the pubs...they generally cook from fresh ingredients, good pricing and local favourites, especially carvery and buffet lunches and dinners. You won't find this in the UK for example where they are all chains owned by brewery companies and looking at every penny of cost. Look the same but at heart are very different! Many pubs in Ireland have quite good chefs in the kitchens.
Restaurants are getting cheaper in Ireland but still overpriced. Dublin and the major cities have all the ethnic restaurants...take your pick, they may not always be the most authentic but the same for the US.
The US has great restaurants but it's the quality of ingredients (i.e. not so fresh as have been trucked in from 1000s miles away often) and the use of too much processed food and sugar and salt that is the killer...e.g. desserts that are too sweet and take away the taste of the food, not balanced.

To reiterate...a place is only expensive according to what you earn....you need to see how much income you will get.

ricman · 10-04-2010 03:24PM

Well in general its more expensive than the usa ,but taxes are lower.
Theres no state taxes, no property tax.
I heard some1 with a 200k apartment has to pay 8k property tax EVERY year .
And in the usa health insurance is very expensive.
And if you want to save money shop in lidl or tesco.
Irish shops probably charge more cos their wages are higher, the rents and rates are high.
And we have no walmarts here .
SAY your salary is 50k ,id say its alot cheaper to live here overall.
IE theres people in the usa who go bankrupt because of high medical costs.
AND we have a good education system.
RE internet , you can get wireless internet on usb modem 02,or 3 network 22 euros approx.
IF you can get a connection 2 a satellite dish you can get a sky tv box,or freesat reciever 30 british free channels ,no subscription required.BBC ,itv ,c4 etc
And you can buy stuff up north if you feel you are paying too much.

ardmacha · 10-04-2010 03:41PM

it has alot to do with economies of scale the smaller the market the higher the price etc

This is always stated and it implies that prices in small countries are inevitably more expensive than big ones and I do not believe that this is true, especially when we are in a large Union like the EU. Is Slovakia inevitably more expensive than Poland or is Estonia more expensive than Sweden?

I dont think I would mind paying fees in Ireland if I got a better education for it

.

How come that you were able to get a job in a university in America so?

murphaph · 10-04-2010 03:52PM

Cato78 wrote: »

I can get a great 12oz steak with 2 sides for about 11euro. But hey, I've heard the quality of food there is much better, so maybe the beef is to die for.

Steak in Europe is probably better quality and healthier but tastes worse than in the states lol! The hormones that make it taste so good and juicy are all illegal in the EU

mickoneill30 · 10-04-2010 08:23PM

ardmacha wrote: »

How come that you were able to get a job in a university in America so?

Reasonable point. Also if somebody really wants to pay (and you think Ireland isn't good enough) you can get world class universities in the UK. It's not much different from somebody moving up to Boston from New York.

There are thousands of Irish students that avail of J1 visas to the US every year. Apparently the US do value our qualifications.

WHY is Ireland so expensive??

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