Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

ShoulderChip · 07-04-2010 11:10PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

I can't see major changes this summer. A lot of the younger players need the chance of a run in the team. If that means a season of coming close but not winning titles so be it. Gibson impressed the hell out of me tonight. Rafael will be one of the if not the best in the world. Evans has massive potential. Maceda and diouf look capable.But these players will not get to improve by sitting on the bench. I only see an experienced goalkeeper coming in the summer really.

ha ha rafael has become the new Anderson
watch out Maicon/Dani Alves the jig is up

herbieflowers · 07-04-2010 11:10PM

p_larkin99 wrote: »

with regards?

I think the Carrick stuff has been building.

Other than that, players like Gibson, Nani and I would say red card aside Rafael can be pleased with the shift they put in.

The general prescriptive posting: do this, do that and then Man U will be x, y, z. The tedious scapegoating of certain players after a defeat.

Fact of the matter is United were undone by the late first-half goal and the sending-off. These things happen. The inevitable meatheaded responses calling for a mass culling of the squad are just tedious at this stage!

redout · 07-04-2010 11:11PM

Headshot wrote: »

carrick has underformed for that last 2 seasons now, he is a small game player and im tired of your vendetta agains berba too. Im not his biggest fan but in no way do i blame him for anything this season, also the fact he has played well recently

Is that serious ?

niallk · 07-04-2010 11:13PM

What a ****ing night.

United were superb up until the IMO shocking decision to give Rafael a second yellow card. Horrible to see a ref give in to pressure from players like that. TBH I'd rather see them make a bad decision and stand up for themselves. Whatever happened to booking players that try to get others booked? You don't see enough of that.

After that though, I think United's main weakness reared it's ugly head: tactical naivety. We became an absolute shambles. For the 20 mins preceding the goal I was pulling my hair out waiting for a change. There was no shape to the side. TBH I was actually relieved when they scored when they did because at least we had enough time to change it and win it, rather than them scoring in the last minute.

And what happens when they score? We effectively put Vidic in midfield and our one remaing midfielder in defence?! As great a motivational manager as Ferguson is, I think he is very tactically naive and he ended up taking advice from Mike Phelan!

I'm not gonna jump on the retarded band wagon of some fans and say "Ferguson has lost it, he needs to go" (As I heard in the pub after the Chelsea game and this). I think the blame lies with United's failure to adequately replace Carlos Queiros. He was a great loss IMO and we are basically still playing the system (4-5-1) that he introduced. We looked like a school boy team for the last half hour of that game and Fergie himself looked lost.

Would love to see Queiros return after the WC, at least somebody with a bit of European tactical knowledge. Hopefully he fails miserably with Portugal and we can get him back

. The only good I see coming out of this is that United will have to spend in the summer. Also, Rafael was excellent, hopefully he will be a bigger player as a result of tonight.

herbieflowers · 07-04-2010 11:13PM

Headshot wrote: »

carrick has underformed for that last 2 seasons now, he is a small game player and im tired of your vendetta agains berba too. Im not his biggest fan but in no way do i blame him for anything this season, also the fact he has played well recently

do you disagree with the anti carrick stuff ?

I do, to an extent. I think people are scapegoating him. One, because he wasn't strong enough to hold off Olic, thus making him an easy target. Two, cause most people on here seem to have that kind of agenda against certain players after defeats. I've seen the same kind of reaction to Nani, Berbatov, Carrick, Giggs, etc. time and time again.

SK1979 · 07-04-2010 11:14PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

The general prescriptive posting: do this, do that and then Man U will be x, y, z. The tedious scapegoating of certain players after a defeat.

Fact of the matter is United were undone by the late first-half goal and the sending-off. These things happen. The inevitable meatheaded responses calling for a mass culling of the squad are just tedious at this stage!

This is the typical head in the sand post. If it wasn't for x,y or z unlucky series of events we'd win every competition. Nonsense, if Rooney injured himself and was out for a full season, how well do you think the current squad would perform across 4 or 5 competitions?

Paul Tergat · 07-04-2010 11:16PM

redout wrote: »

That is a fair enough stance to take and I can respect it but he wouldnt be the first on my list of players that would need to be shipped out.

So other than Berba as you said who else has underperformed over the last while? I assume you will talk about the oldies but other than that I think Carrick is the one who really needs to look at his game and if he cant improve on it then he needs replacing

herbieflowers wrote: »

The general prescriptive posting: do this, do that and then Man U will be x, y, z. The tedious scapegoating of certain players after a defeat.

Fact of the matter is United were undone by the late first-half goal and the sending-off. These things happen. The inevitable meatheaded responses calling for a mass culling of the squad are just tedious at this stage!

Oh aye I mean going out of Europe is always going to bring about a lot of emotion.

Do you not think changes need to be made in any area?

Headshot · 07-04-2010 11:17PM

redout wrote: »

Is that serious ?

are you regarding my berba stance ?

if so yes I dont blame him for anything this season, he has played bad in some games but when you get no service from CM what can you do ?

He also cant play the lone striker role so what can he do like, my blame lies squarely on the CM position and if im being harsh saf's head

Mr Alan · 07-04-2010 11:20PM

the decision to play no striker after raf got sent off had a huge bearing on how the game panned out imo

Headshot · 07-04-2010 11:20PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

I do, to an extent. I think people are scapegoating him. One, because he wasn't strong enough to hold off Olic, thus making him an easy target. Two, cause most people on here seem to have that kind of agenda against certain players after defeats. I've seen the same kind of reaction to Nani, Berbatov, Carrick, Giggs, etc. time and time again.

Jebus herbieflowers

carrick has been ****e for the last 2 seasons now, im shocked you think other wise

redout · 07-04-2010 11:20PM

p_larkin99 wrote: »

So other than Berba as you said who else has underperformed over the last while? I assume you will talk about the oldies but other than that I think Carrick is the one who really needs to look at his game and if he cant improve on it then he needs replacing

Oldies definitely. I would dump Anderson and Gibson before I went near Carrick.

Headshot · 07-04-2010 11:21PM

redout wrote: »

Oldies definitely. I would dump Anderson and Gibson before I went near Carrick.

now I know your taking the piss

Paul Tergat · 07-04-2010 11:22PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

the decision to play no striker after raf got sent off had a huge bearing on how the game panned out imo

This for me too, so surprised at SAF.

I thought that a midfielder, prob Nani or Valencia would come off for O'Shea and at the same time I expected the injured Rooney off for Berbatov to give us some shape to the team. Was very surprised it didnt happen.

Professey Chin · 07-04-2010 11:27PM

Why am I working at 8 tomorrow.I need a drink or 12

herbieflowers · 07-04-2010 11:28PM

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Oh aye I mean going out of Europe is always going to bring about a lot of emotion.

Do you not think changes need to be made in any area?

No, I do. They've been apparent for some time. I think it's not the most ideal time, like you say, for people to be so fatalistic!

Headshot wrote: »

Jebus herbieflowers

carrick has been ****e for the last 2 seasons now, im shocked you think other wise

It's not that. You're entitled to your opinion, I just think people lose perspective after such defeats. United lost not because of Carrick or Giggs being too old, etc.

The game turned on the Olic goal and the sending-off. Yes, you can blame Carrick for the goal but there were other players culpable, too.

Professey Chin · 07-04-2010 11:33PM

I think the actual back line was playing for offside on the Olic goal but Carrick kept him onside....then fell very easily..........and didnt even make an attempt to get back up...........bastard

Bukman13 · 07-04-2010 11:33PM

niallk wrote: »

What a ****ing night.

United were superb up until the IMO shocking decision to give Rafael a second yellow card. Horrible to see a ref give in to pressure from players like that. TBH I'd rather see them make a bad decision and stand up for themselves. Whatever happened to booking players that try to get others booked? You don't see enough of that.

After that though, I think United's main weakness reared it's ugly head: tactical naivety. We became an absolute shambles. For the 20 mins preceding the goal I was pulling my hair out waiting for a change. There was no shape to the side. TBH I was actually relieved when they scored when they did because at least we had enough time to change it and win it, rather than them scoring in the last minute.

And what happens when they score? We effectively put Vidic in midfield and our one remaing midfielder in defence?! As great a motivational manager as Ferguson is, I think he is very tactically naive and he ended up taking advice from Mike Phelan!

I disagree with this. I thought he got the tactics spot on after the red card. We looked compact and very well organised playing a 4-4-1. Bayern struggled to break us down, only chance they had was the Gomez header over the bar. The robben goal had nothing to do with the overall tactics, it came from a set piece and was simply a moment of magic from him.

Problem came after that, he had team set out from the start to play a high tempo pressing game, and it is natural for them to tire as the game goes on (just look at Barca last week against Arsenal). And when Rafael went off Bayern controlled the possessionand made us do a lot of running. Once Bayern scored it was pretty much game over tbh. But the Tactics were right imo.

O'shea on for Carrick instead of rooney would have been the mistake I can see, but we don't know how fit Roony was.

Headshot · 07-04-2010 11:35PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

No, I do. They've been apparent for some time. I think it's not the most ideal time, like you say, for people to be so fatalistic!

It's not that. You're entitled to your opinion, I just think people lose perspective after such defeats. United lost not because of Carrick or Giggs being too old, etc.

The game turned on the Olic goal and the sending-off. Yes, you can blame Carrick for the goal but there were other players culpable, too.

I blame carrick for both goals, in the 1st one he was made to look like a weakling, he's 6ft ffs
2nd goal he was caught for possession again, he thought he had all the time in the world to pass a ball. Carrick gave the ball away countless of times tonight, he just didnt contribute anything , compared to the likes of fletch and less extend gibson.

it's not just tonight, posters have been calling for carricks head for along time

adox · 07-04-2010 11:36PM

I'd blame carrick for both goals. I don't get why people think we are picking on him. He has been awful pretty much for the last two seasons. Now people can argue about berba all they want, but the difference is carrick is a liability at this stage, costing us games.

He's not the sole reason for uniteds poor performances this season, but he's the biggest culprit by a long way IMO. It's such a crucial area of the pitch, cm, and that to an extent magnifies his short comings even more.

Paul Tergat · 07-04-2010 11:37PM

Bukman13 wrote: »

I disagree with this. I thought he got the tactics spot on after the red card. We looked compact and very well organised playing a 4-4-1.

Sorry, no for me.

We had to bring on a striker when taking Rooney off. Nani came deep a lot. In that situation we need one person up front to a) hold the ball up the rare time we would get hold of it, allowing our defensive line to push up and give us breathing space and b) allow runners from midfield so we can start a counter on our own.

Nani was pushed forward and worked his arse off but just didnt stay leading the line so there was an out ball to aim for. It just allowed there CB's all the time in the world to receive any hoofed clearance and to come straight back at us

Bukman13 · 07-04-2010 11:44PM

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Sorry, no for me.

We had to bring on a striker when taking Rooney off. Nani came deep a lot. In that situation we need one person up front to a) hold the ball up the rare time we would get hold of it, allowing our defensive line to push up and give us breathing space and b) allow runners from midfield so we can start a counter on our own.

Nani was pushed forward and worked his arse off but just didnt stay leading the line so there was an out ball to aim for. It just allowed there CB's all the time in the world to receive any hoofed clearance and to come straight back at us

I already pointed out that Rooney shouldn't have came off for O'Shea and that it should have been Carrick...

But from a formation point of view he did the right thing imo, Bayern were finding it increasingly difficult to break us down, and witht he expection of a wonder goal I dont thing they would have scored.

I agree with you that Nani up front on his own didn't really work, but it was a choice between Nani who would hassel the defense and not be able to hold the ball up well, or Berbatov who could've held the ball up but would not have been able to close down as effective as Nani.

Paul Tergat · 07-04-2010 11:48PM

Bukman13 wrote: »

I already pointed out that Rooney shouldn't have came off for O'Shea and that it should have been Carrick...

But from a formation point of view he did the right thing imo, Bayern were finding it increasingly difficult to break us down, and witht he expection of a wonder goal I dont thing they would have scored.

I agree with you that Nani up front on his own didn't really work, but it was a choice between Nani who would hassel the defense and not be able to hold the ball up well, or Berbatov who could've held the ball up but would not have been able to close down as effective as Nani.

What was the key though was to have someone who would stay up front. Nani simply wont do that whereas Berba can. What I was suggesting was taking off a midfielder for O'Shea and at the same time taking off Rooney and putting on Berbatov, both at the time of the sending off.

Any word on Rooney yet by the way lads?

edit: it buk, it was on your original post of: I disagree with this. I thought he got the tactics spot on after the red card. We looked compact and very well organised playing a 4-4-1.

Taking off carrick as ya suggested for a RB would not have left us compact. We would then have had just 2 CM's with 2 attacking wingers and a striker.

Fergie got the formation right but not the tactics imo.

Headshot · 07-04-2010 11:50PM

p_larkin99 wrote: »

What was the key though was to have someone who would stay up front. Nani simply wont do that whereas Berba can. What I was suggesting was taking off a midfielder for O'Shea and at the same time taking off Rooney and putting on Berbatov, both at the time of the sending off.

Any word on Rooney yet by the way lads?

saf
"It’s a burst blood vessel just below the ankle joint. He won’t be out for too long." Won't make Sunday, back for City

Paul Tergat · 07-04-2010 11:53PM

Headshot wrote: »

saf
"It’s a burst blood vessel just below the ankle joint. He won’t be out for too long." Won't make Sunday, back for City

so he will be fit for this weekend then

redout · 07-04-2010 11:54PM

Headshot wrote: »

are you regarding my berba stance ?

if so yes I dont blame him for anything this season, he has played bad in some games but when you get no service from CM what can you do ?

He also cant play the lone striker role so what can he do like, my blame lies squarely on the CM position and if im being harsh saf's head

Berbatov just doesnt work at Man Utd.

Talented footballer indeed but its not much use when in a team that is not setup for him.

Flashes in the pan is all he has shown during his two seasons.

You say he has being playing better of late but he has no consistancy and as I said he doesnt fit in with the system Sir Alex employs.

He is nearly 2 seasons at this stage and what has he done exactly ?

How much more time should he be given ?

Its not as though he is Nani with age on his side and can be sold on for a handsome fee and its not as though Fergie will change his setup to accommodate him at Rooneys expense.

What is it that you recommend Sir Alex should do to fix this situation because there is no way he is fully satisfied with what he gets out of him.

The logical thing is to move him on and get in a forward who will work with Rooney and creative players to be added in midfield.

Le King · 07-04-2010 11:56PM

All this over-reaction is laughable.

We need a centre mid. Maybe a striker. But come on. Not a new team.

RichTea · 07-04-2010 11:58PM

Cheer up United fans.

Nani was really good today, at least he's been fixed this season.

Bukman13 · 08-04-2010 12:00AM

p_larkin99 wrote: »

What was the key though was to have someone who would stay up front. Nani simply wont do that whereas Berba can. What I was suggesting was taking off a midfielder for O'Shea and at the same time taking off Rooney and putting on Berbatov, both at the time of the sending off.

Yea fair point, but the way we set up (4-4-1) ment that we limited Bayern's one man advantage to just a free man in defense (Demichelis in this case). As ****e as Demichelis is defensiviely he is actually very good at bringing the ball out of defense and starting attacks.

So had we put Berbatov on he would of had to of dropped deep too to mark Demichelis anyway. Berbatov would have better at holding up the ball, but he would have allowed Demichelis that extra space when in midfield.

It was a 50/50 call imo, but I don't think it was a bad call either way.

Headshot · 08-04-2010 12:01AM

I give up redout, i hoping you'll see the light some day regarding berba

let the berba be with you

jaykay74 · 08-04-2010 12:06AM

Hopefully an unprecedented 4th league title in a row will lift the gloom.

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