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The "arrogant atheist" sterotype.

  • 19-03-2010 10:27AM
    #1
    Xluna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Xluna


    All groups have their sterotypes and imo they often don't come from no where-but it's pollitically incorrect to hold this view it seems. Arrogance is a stereotype commonly attributed to atheists. On average do you think atheists tend to be more arrogant,in general,than the rest of the population or is it an unfair branding?


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Comments

  • #2
    monosharp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭monosharp


    Xluna wrote: »
    All groups have their sterotypes and imo they often don't come from no where-but it's pollitically incorrect to hold this view it seems. Arrogance is a stereotype commonly attributed to atheists.

    Well I don't think atheism/atheists are really a group in anywhere near the same sense as religious, political etc groups.

    I'm an atheist because my particular view is that "I don't know" if theres a god/gods or the supernatural. If I have anything in common with Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens or any of the posters here its a coincidence.

    Its not a doctrine I have accepted a la religion.

    Its the same as grouping people who like history togeather. I like history for reasons x, y and z. Do people who like history have some common attribute ?
    On average do you think atheists tend to be more arrogant,in general,than the rest of the population or is it an unfair branding?

    No. Because I'm always right.


  • #3
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Xluna wrote: »
    All groups have their sterotypes and imo they often don't come from no where-but it's pollitically incorrect to hold this view it seems. Arrogance is a stereotype commonly attributed to atheists. On average do you think atheists tend to be more arrogant,in general,than the rest of the population or is it an unfair branding?

    No.
    I think that religious people consider atheists more arrogant because atheists on the whole tend to be less likely to extend the amount of respect that they've become used to undeservedly.

    I'm not saying that there aren't any arrogant atheists around, there are plenty. But there are also plenty of arrogant religious people.


  • #4
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    monosharp wrote: »
    Well I don't think atheism/atheists are really a group in anywhere near the same sense as religious, political etc groups.
    Atheists, wolf packs of one werewolf.gif


  • #5
    Obni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭Obni


    I think the stereotype is partially based on the contrast between, on one hand, the nature of a debate two people of different faiths or different factions of the same faith, and on the other hand the nature of a debate between an atheist and theist.
    The switch from debating complex theological minutiae, aspects of spirituality, the conflict of prophecy and free will, the nature of divine intervention, to someone suddenly pointing a finger and saying "Medieval hogwash!" is a bucket of ice-water over the head.


  • #6
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    I tend to ignore the accusation. It is irrelevant.

    ...Someone can be arrogant, loud, quiet, soft spoken, smelly, pimply, a murderer, an atheist, a theist, an idiot, a hyper intellect or whatever else you want...

    None of that is in any way relevant to whether what they are actually saying is correct or not. Useful or not. Relevant or not.

    The very second one starts talking about the people that are speaking, rather than what those people are saying, then a wrong turn has been taken.


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  • #7
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    To quote a recent episode of Southpark, Atheists get labeled as arrogant because we are a turd in the punchbowl.

    You see, the vast majority of people are happy to just live in ignorance with their beliefs, and the decorum is to just let others have whatever wacko beliefs they want also, so everyone can be happy and delusional together about whatever they want

    "You believe in fairies? That's cool I believe in Jesus"
    "Jesus eh? Awesome, I believe the 9/11 attacks are a cover up so that the US could move into Iraq for the Oil"
    "Ah yeah, that Oil, who knows what's going on there. BTW I'm a Muslim"
    "Muslims? Cool, I don't fear you by the way. I believe Unicorns shoot laser beams from their nostrils"
    *Atheist walks in*
    Listen guys, can't we just accept that none of us knows for sure about any of our beliefs, so can't we just ignore our own made up beliefs like we all ready ignore everyone elses made up beliefs?
    ...
    *tsst* Sir... we have... a turd in the punchbowl


  • #8
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    I genuinely, honestly do not believe most atheists are arrogant, certainly not more than most religious believers. As King mob said in another thread, they make all the grand claims, tell everyone how to live and not to live their lives, both in public and in private, and they accuse us of being arrogant?

    Please. It's as laughable as it is false.


  • #9
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Unfair branding. Atheists are far more diverse than any religious group.


  • #10
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Xluna wrote: »
    All groups have their sterotypes and imo they often don't come from no where-but it's pollitically incorrect to hold this view it seems. Arrogance is a stereotype commonly attributed to atheists. On average do you think atheists tend to be more arrogant,in general,than the rest of the population or is it an unfair branding?

    I remember during the debates on the Lisbon treaty the same thing happened all the time, people kept coming out and saying things like they were put off by the yes side's arrogance. I remember thinking (and saying) more than once that the whole thing reminded me of talking to religious people. A lot of people had got a vague idea of treaty=bad from Libertas et al and had at best a very shaky justification for their position, it was mostly a gut feeling that had been deliberately implanted, better known as FUD. It's similar to how people have a gut feeling that a god exists and then set about trying to find arguments to justify it that are only really convincing because they've already decided there's a god.

    When their whole justification was easily shown to be based on out of context quotes, made up figures and bare faced lies they were obviously embarrassed and they still had the gut feeling so they weren't going to change their mind just because every one of their objections had been dealt with. So they did exactly the same thing that religious people do at times like that, they started with ad hominem attacks that amount to little more than "it doesn't matter that everything you're saying is right, I'm still not listening to you because you said it in a mean way"


  • #11
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    I think it's arrogant to believe your belief is the correct one out of the thousands in the world and that if people don't think the same as you they're doomed for all eternity. But hey, that's just me.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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  • #12
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    ScienceNerd wrote: »
    I think it's arrogant to believe your belief is the correct one out of the thousands in the world and that if people don't think the same as you they're doomed for all eternity. But hey, that's just me.

    How arrogant of you..


  • #13
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    I'd rather be arrogant than wrong.

    Maybe it's that kind of thing...


  • #14
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Atheists: "We're pretty damn sure we're right."
    Religious folk: "We know the truth."

    Which is more arrogant? Answers on a postcard.


  • #15
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Xluna wrote: »
    All groups have their sterotypes and imo they often don't come from no where-but it's pollitically incorrect to hold this view it seems. Arrogance is a stereotype commonly attributed to atheists. On average do you think atheists tend to be more arrogant,in general,than the rest of the population or is it an unfair branding?

    Yes. It's difficult to suffer fools sometimes.
    One of my new tactics is to highlight the religious person's lack of scientific knowledge and the fact I can't take them seriously in any intellectual sense.

    This could easily be construed as arrogance.

    Dawkins comes across as really arrogant because of his tone - he sounds like a pompous upper class English colonial squire. But if you listen to what's saying he's actually a fairly gentle humane character.


  • #16
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    The thing is, it's the matter-of-fact tone (and, as Tim points out, the English accent) used by Dawkins when he discusses complete nonsense that makes people think he's arrogant. But what on earth is he supposed to do? The entire point is lost if he humours said nonsense on any level.


  • #17
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Tim Robbins wrote: »

    Dawkins comes across as really arrogant because of his tone - he sounds like a pompous upper class English colonial squire. But if you listen to what's saying he's actually a fairly gentle humane character.

    As Ian O'Doherty once told me, (paraphrased;)) "Dawkins is an arrogant ass because he is a pompous upper class English colonial squire and an Oxford Dom, not because he is an atheist."


  • #18
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    As Ian O'Doherty once told me, (paraphrased;)) "Dawkins is an arrogant ass because he is a pompous upper class English colonial squire and an Oxford Dom, not because he is an atheist."

    Good ol' IOD. He shall be our new poster boy for atheism. Common as muck, but loveable.


  • #19
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Xluna wrote: »
    All groups have their sterotypes and imo they often don't come from no where-but it's pollitically incorrect to hold this view it seems. Arrogance is a stereotype commonly attributed to atheists. On average do you think atheists tend to be more arrogant,in general,than the rest of the population or is it an unfair branding?

    I don't think arrogance is an accurate stereotype of atheists as people. I assume theists feel that atheists are arrogantly denying their lord god or some other such religious based affront - having the gall to request evidence for something theist feel should never be questioned.

    You get a common group of accusations leveled at atheists; arrogance, denial, closed heart, narrow mindedness, lack of morality, etc, etc. It's all part of the theist view that atheism is daring not to believe, or even somehow refusing to believe, what is patently obvious to a theist. I think the idea that a mortal being can claim the non-existence of an omnipotent being that others place such importance in is obviously going to be viewed as an arrogance by believers - but that's a completely different kettle of fish to atheists actually being arrogant as people.

    Ironically, I think claiming to KNOW their god is the right one, that their holy book is the true one, to proclaim to know what their god wants and how their god will deal with people all seems like remarkable arrogance to me. In general, I think the people knocking at my door demanding I accept their god or thrusting biblical protestations of hell at me from the street are much more arrogant than any seeker of empirical truth but in day to day life, there is no higher percentage of arrogance in atheists than in any other walk of life.


  • #20
    pH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    Dawkins comes across as really arrogant because of his tone - he sounds like a pompous upper class English colonial squire. But if you listen to what's saying he's actually a fairly gentle humane character.

    Do people here think that say the Pope is arrogant? More or less so than Dawkins? If not, why not, he's at least as sure or himself as Dawkins is, and makes pronouncements all the time, yet very few would label him arrogant, I'm just wondering why.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pH wrote: »
    Do people here think that say the Pope is arrogant? More or less so than Dawkins? If not, why not, he's at least as sure or himself as Dawkins is, and makes pronouncements all the time, yet very few would label him arrogant, I'm just wondering why.
    God speaks directly to him, acts as his voice on earth and leads upwards of a billion people.
    He also is fabulously wealthy and lives in a palace that is also a city and a country.
    Yes I would say he can't help but be arrogant.

    What pisses me off is the hypocrisy of people calling atheists arrogant.


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  • #22
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    pH wrote: »
    Do people here think that say the Pope is arrogant? More or less so than Dawkins? If not, why not, he's at least as sure or himself as Dawkins is, and makes pronouncements all the time, yet very few would label him arrogant, I'm just wondering why.

    To be honest, arrogant would be an exceedingly kind thing to label the current pope.


  • #23
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    It's often a reality too. Then again, you often have theists who can be arrogant. Although in all due respect, it's not as if Christians don't have numerous stereotypes attached to them.

    Ickle Magoo: Interesting that you bring up the telling people about hell thing. It seems, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't in this respect. Indeed, there was a whole thread dedicated the to subject recently

    Youtube video from an atheist I stumbled across recently on this subject:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhG-tkQ_Q2w


  • #24
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's often a reality too. Then again, you often have theists who can be arrogant. Although in all due respect, it's not as if Christians don't have numerous stereotypes attached to them.

    But it's not about stereotyping, it's about this specific stereotype and whether or not it's valid.


  • #25
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Never thought much of William Reville, myself. Not just for his anti-atheism campaign.


  • #26
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Antbert wrote: »
    But it's not about stereotyping, it's about this specific stereotype and whether or not it's valid.

    You have to ask yourself why stereotypes exist.

    I'd say that stereotypes of Christians exist, because, well quite a lot of Christians act in accordance to these stereotypes from time to time.

    Likewise, stereotypes of atheists exist, well because quite a lot of atheists act in accordance to these stereotypes from time to time.

    It isn't rocket science. Indeed, I'm sure many of you would stereotype me based on my faith, and indeed, I think I probably fall into the same trap with some of you.


  • #27
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    Jakkass wrote: »
    You have to ask yourself why stereotypes exist.

    I'd say that stereotypes of Christians exist, because, well quite a lot of Christians act in accordance to these stereotypes from time to time.

    Likewise, stereotypes of atheists exist, well because quite a lot of atheists act in accordance to these stereotypes from time to time.

    It isn't rocket science. Indeed, I'm sure many of you would stereotype me based on my faith, and indeed, I think I probably fall into the same trap with some of you.
    A fair point indeed. One could even argue that it's our arrogance that makes us insist we aren't arrogant.

    To which I would respond that arrogance isn't exactly the worst trait in the world, and would then argue adamantly that it isn't actually arrogance etc. etc.

    Worth contemplating though.


  • #28
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Ickle Magoo: Interesting that you bring up the telling people about hell thing. It seems, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't in this respect. Indeed, there was a whole thread dedicated the to subject recently

    In fairness, it's you who is damned if you do or damned if you don't because of beliefs you have, since I don't share those beliefs, I don't have any time for it. It just seems to be a bit of a self-fulfilling annoyance earning theists a ned flanderesque stereo-type.
    Jackass wrote:
    You have to ask yourself why stereotypes exist.

    I'd say that stereotypes of Christians exist, because, well quite a lot of Christians act in accordance to these stereotypes from time to time.

    Likewise, stereotypes of atheists exist, well because quite a lot of atheists act in accordance to these stereotypes from time to time.

    It isn't rocket science. Indeed, I'm sure many of you would stereotype me based on my faith, and indeed, I think I probably fall into the same trap with some of you.

    I think there are undoubtedly some arrogant atheists but no more so than there are arrogant theists, agnostics or whatever. I think "atheism" itself gets the labeled because of what it inherently is, or more importantly what it is not, rather than because of the way individual atheists act.


  • #29
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Theism (Christian version): There is a God, he created the universe, and I was saved/chosen by Him.

    Atheism: There is no God.


    One is rather arrogant and one is ever so slightly arrogant. Which do you think?


  • #30
    Konnor Fit Widow
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Konnor Fit Widow


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Theism (Christian version): There is a God, he created the universe, and I was saved/chosen by Him.

    You forgot "and he looks like me" (in his image no? ;o ) :D


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  • #31
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    and I was saved/chosen by Him.

    According to Christianity, all can be saved by God by free grace. It's hardly an arrogant stance to claim that one can be saved, if all can be saved in turn. Indeed, I would even admit that I am not deserving of it. Hence why it is said "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me."

    That's arrogant?
    Ickle Magoo wrote:
    In fairness, it's you who is damned if you do or damned if you don't because of beliefs you have, since I don't share those beliefs, I don't have any time for it. It just seems to be a bit of a self-fulfilling annoyance earning theists a ned flanderesque stereo-type.

    I meant, we as Christians. All I'm saying is, we can't win with that stereotype due to the terms you've drawn up surrounding it.


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