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Litter & Visual Pollution on the Motorway Network

  • 15-03-2010 3:52pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    damoz wrote: »
    I drove up and down the M8 this weekend - first time in a while. I could not believe the amount of litter on the side of the road. No bins at any lay by (lay by near Mitchelstown is knee deep in rubbish !). Obviously no enforcement of litter laws. So im looking to highlight this to the relevant authorities.

    Who do i contact. Who is responsible for it? NRA? Each country council ?

    It actaully made me angry. We drone on this country about the beautiful landscape and attracting toursits etc etc - well if they drive on that road they would be appalled. I know i was - and ashamed. Who throws litter our of their cars - in 2010 - seriously - they should be neutered.

    So who do i contact. I will compose a letter / email (hopefully not as much of a rant as this post ! ) and send it to all bodies. If anyone has photos id appreciate it - didnt have a camera with me.

    As for a solution - well, we have close to 500,000 on the dole, many of them able bodied long term - they should be put to work for the dole, and id have then start by cleaning up the mess in this country. I know i would get all the health and safety, minimum wage blah blah blah - but we need to restore some civic pride in this kip

    If you contact the NRA they will put you onto the local authorities who are about as helpful as the Sphinx. We need a dedicated motorway maintenance division that would be responsible for litter collection, strimming, and road furniture repair or replacement.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ fresca


    Agree with "Highway Maintenance" body.

    N18 crusheen to gort (particularly) has a significant volume of litter at the moment.

    :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ CerebralCortex


    fresca wrote: »
    Agree with "Highway Maintenance" body.

    N18 crusheen to gort (particularly) has a significant volume of litter at the moment.

    :mad:

    Another thing that bothers me about the M18 is the grass growing and sand gathering at the partitions of the road. Disgraceful!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    I suggest people post as many pictures as possible of the filth. This should be a protest thread. Gather as much visual evidence as possible and then send it all to the media.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Furet wrote: »
    If you contact the NRA they will put you onto the local authorities who are about as helpful as the Sphinx. We need a dedicated motorway maintenance division that would be responsible for litter collection, strimming, and road furniture repair or replacement.

    I would second this proposal. I would have this as a division of the NRA. This motorway maintenence agency (or perhaps a more general roads maintenence agency), would have the function monitoring the state of major highways, would send out inspection vehicles, I think, at a minimum every two months for slightly trafficked roads, and at least bi-monthly for more heavily-trafficked roads to identify any issues that need fixing. Issues that arise would then be contracted out to the local councils or private companies to repair, and it would be able to use the NRA's connections with Rennicks and other road furniture manufacturers to its advantage.

    I think a system like this could be very workable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    I would second this proposal. I would have this as a division of the NRA. This motorway maintenence agency (or perhaps a more general roads maintenence agency), would have the function monitoring the state of major highways, would send out inspection vehicles, I think, at a minimum every two months for slightly trafficked roads, and at least bi-monthly for more heavily-trafficked roads to identify any issues that need fixing. Issues that arise would then be contracted out to the local councils or private companies to repair, and it would be able to use the NRA's connections with Rennicks and other road furniture manufacturers to its advantage.

    I think a system like this could be very workable.

    Thats like saying I want to hire my mother to clean my room.

    We will be doing no such thing. We are not going backwards in society. If you see rubbish on the ground you pick it up. If you see someone throwing rubbish you kick them in the balls. If you feel you want to put furniture or plant trees on the roadside, you do that.

    The greatest laugh about humanity is, we feel someone is in authority over us. The last thing i want to see is a motorway division just to clean up rubbish because of other people's lack of respect to the world. It doesn't solve the problem.


    My head hurts when I see this kind of view points. Lets resolve the matter rather than just hire someone to just pick up our rubbish on our roads.


    The common thing to do is put up signs to remind people not to throw rubbish and give them the warning sign. Most people are naive and would eventually give in and grow up. Any friends I know that dump rubbish in front of me will get a bollocking off me. They don't do it around me anymore:);)


    Seriously I do not want an agency wasting tax payers money because of peoples lack of respect the environment.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    We will be doing no such thing. We are not going backwards in society. If you see rubbish on the ground you pick it up. If you see someone throwing rubbish you kick them in the balls. If you feel you want to put furniture or plant trees on the roadside, you do that.

    Yes to the first, no the second, and you're having a laugh to the third.

    I'm all for people picking up litter, I recongise that people's mindsets need to change, in fact I wrote a large post about it in the M8 thread, as did Furet. However, people (for the foreseeable future) are still going to litter, and as such (unfortunately) someone needs to be there to pick it up.
    Furthermore, the agency would not just be responsible for litter, but for all aspects of maintainence.

    I would love to be able to plant trees on the road side, but it should be done under a supervised aforestation programme or landscaping programme. Planting random trees could either, well, most likely they wouldn't even grow if they were planted incorrectly and without guidance, but more dangerously, they would grow in unsuitable areas, where they would not blend in with the landscape, or where they would block sightlines or whatever. Care and thought must be put into any tree-planting programme, but I do support the idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭ Joey Joe-Joe Jr


    Sweet Jesus Mysterious, that is possibly the most useless post any human being has ever made on any subject ever.
    If you see rubbish on the ground you pick it up.

    Off you go then, pick it all up, might keep you off this forum for a while! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭ csd


    Folks,

    I was up and down the length of the M2 on Saturday, and it's as bad as the M8. Waste plastic, waving streamer-like in the trees, bin bags dumped in the verge. Disgusting. Will bring the camera next time.

    /csd


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    Sweet Jesus Mysterious, that is possibly the most useless post any human being has ever made on any subject ever.



    Off you go then, pick it all up, might keep you off this forum for a while! :rolleyes:

    It wasn't it was the best slap accross the face you will need including this one.
    I have done and will be tree planting tomorrow, so smart aren't you. And what are you doing?

    Yeah I can gather "bitching"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Yes to the first, no the second, and you're having a laugh to the third.

    This is reality and its best to be as real about it as you can, as this is the reality your in!.

    I'm all for people picking up litter, I recongise that people's mindsets need to change, in fact I wrote a large post about it in the M8 thread, as did Furet. However, people (for the foreseeable future) are still going to litter, and as such (unfortunately) someone needs to be there to pick it up.
    Furthermore, the agency would not just be responsible for litter, but for all aspects of maintainence.

    You can't change others and putting some government agency in there to fix this is not changing anything. It's actually taking more responsibility away from the people. Its also giving allowance to people to dump rubbish purposely because you have hired someone to pick it up.

    Change starts with you , not outside of yourself.
    I know you probably think whoa such a burden to take on more responsibility and its really only a laugh, but its your attitude that is the problem and the reason why most of you wont change anything. You can't change others and change starts with you. It's when you change the universe follow suit. Its seems all airy and spacy to handle. But its actually very very simple.

    I would love to be able to plant trees on the road side, but it should be done under a supervised aforestation programme or landscaping programme. Planting random trees could either, well, most likely they wouldn't even grow if they were planted incorrectly and without guidance, but more dangerously, they would grow in unsuitable areas, where they would not blend in with the landscape, or where they would block sightlines or whatever. Care and thought must be put into any tree-planting programme, but I do support the idea.

    LOL.......................... Funniest post of the year. Your asking for supervised aforesetation programme to plant trees.

    Please tell me your taking the absaloute piss, because I find it insulting to call myself a human being when you have just basically shown yourself that you need another human being to supervise you if you plant a tree? Bluntguy I'd hate to look like I'm teaching you this much, but trees can look after itself.

    You have got to be joking. Your not a kid, go out and plant trees and shrubs along your stretch of road or a place you feel is a nice spot to plant that is not on private property. Of course you don't have too to do that. The earth is not owned by anyone. So don't get me started on but "The council own this and that"....:rolleyes:



    Care and thought is all that is needed Bluntguy. We are not retarded we are grown mature adults that have the will and power to make these places along road sides and local areas in which we live a much more pleasant and environmentally tidy to wander and live upon.

    It gives me great annoyance when I hear posts like yours in todays world. Your still programmed imo on this "looking for authority" to shape a part of reality you wish to improve.

    If you wish to improve this world no one in their will is allowed to stop you. They might try too but they cannot.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    This is reality and its best to be as real about it as you can, as this is the reality your in!.

    ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    mysterious wrote: »
    If you feel you want to put furniture or plant trees on the roadside, you do that.
    That's a bit like saying if you want a new road then go and build it yourself. We pay more than enough motor tax to expect the authorities to plant a few trees on the roadsides, keep roads reasonably tidy and in good condition.

    You say that we shouldn't hire anyone to clean up litter because that would be ignoring the problem, but you also say the we should pick up other people's litter. That would be ignoring the problem just the same as hiring someone to do it. If people know they can drop litter without any consequences and someone else (be they paid or just a passer-by) will come and pick it up, they will continue to litter. It needs to be cleared up and then a very strict enforcement of our anti-litter and anti-dumping laws be implemented.
    mysterious wrote: »
    The greatest laugh about humanity is, we feel someone is in authority over us. The last thing i want to see is a motorway division just to clean up rubbish because of other people's lack of respect to the world. It doesn't solve the problem.

    I do agree that people have become helpless and expect everything to be done on their behalf...when it suits them. The same people will then bitch and moan that the government interferes too much in our lives...when the government is doing something that they don't like. Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways.

    There has to be a balance. People need to be able to look after themselves and do things for themselves, but at the same time the government does have to look after doing certain things (that's what they're there for; that's why we pay tax).


    Like I was saying in the M8 thread, I'd like to see something similar to the New York "broken glass" approach adopted in Ireland to tackle litter problems on our roads. An intensive effort to clean up the roadsides followed by a zero tolerence approach to littering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    KevR wrote: »

    You say that we shouldn't hire anyone to clean up litter because that would be ignoring the problem, but you also say the we should pick up other people's litter. That would be ignoring the problem just the same as hiring someone to do it.
    No I'm saying if you want change, you have to do something about it. There is no logic, in you walking bye rubbish coming on a forum to bitch about it and then ask someone else to do something about it. When you didn't pick it up, if you don't pick it up why should an agency do it.

    If you feel you want to do it, go do it. But don't ask someone else do it. If you see someone dumping rubbish tell them is not acceptable. Everyone has a responsibility here. I just don't agree with giving more responsibility to the governments because its just not solving the problem.
    If people know they can drop litter without any consequences and someone else (be they paid or just a passer-by) will come and pick it up, they will continue to litter. It needs to be cleared up and then a very strict enforcement of our anti-litter and anti-dumping laws be implemented.

    It comes back to everyone having a responsibility. like parents who don't teach their kids to have respect for other people or themselves. Dumping rubbish is a sign of not having respect for yourself never mind the fact of polluting the world.

    I do agree that people have become helpless and expect everything to be done on their behalf...when it suits them. The same people will then bitch and moan that the government interferes too much in our lives...when the government is doing something that they don't like. Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways.
    Thats why I disagree with an agency hired to pick up our rubbish.

    There has to be a balance. People need to be able to look after themselves and do things for themselves, but at the same time the government does have to look after doing certain things (that's what they're there for; that's why we pay tax).

    The balance is "we", not you, they or government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    mysterious wrote: »
    When you didn't pick it up, if you don't pick it up why should an agency do it.
    It's all well and good saying I should pick up rubbish but what happens next? If I do pick up other people's rubbish, will there be extra enforcement to stop it happening again?

    mysterious wrote: »
    If you feel you want to do it, go do it. But don't ask someone else do it. If you see someone dumping rubbish tell them is not acceptable.

    In some cases it might be possible to tell people it's not acceptable to litter but on motorways and other high speed roads it's not always going to be quite so simple. I would definitely like to see cameras in litter blackspots such as rest areas on the motorways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    Perhaps we should have a chain gang from the good citzens of Mountjoy/Portlaoise/Limerick/Cork Prisons out on the new motorways cleaning them up? *hides*


  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭ NedNew2


    Good
    Wexford County Council: Some councils deserve credit. As I posted before, the N25 between Wexford and New Ross is spotless and is the correct image to portray for those who enter the country from Rosslare.

    Laois County Council: I also saw fairly intensive cleaning along the M7 at Portlaoise last weekend, although I'm not sure how far they went.

    Bad
    Kildare County Council: I think the worst I have sever seen is the M7 between Naas and Kildare. If all those plastic bottles were recycled they would be worth a tidy sum. I've seen bottles, black bags of rubbish, matresses, tyres and more on this stretch. This is a bad omen since this is probably the county with the most motorway in the country (M4, M7, M9). It took 2 months, 5 phone calls, 3 emails and threats of going to newspapers before the slipway at J12 The Curragh was cleaned (it's now as bad as ever again).

    Tipperary South County Coucil: Second worst has to be the M8 south of Cashel.

    Carlow County Council: The M9 Carlow ByPass is very badly maintained. I've seen black bags of rubbish left beside a flyover for over a month.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    NedNew2 wrote: »
    Good
    Wexford County Council: Some councils deserve credit. As I posted before, the N25 between Wexford and New Ross is spotless and is the correct image to portray for those who enter the country from Rosslare.

    Laois County Council: I also saw fairly intensive cleaning along the M7 at Portlaoise last weekend, although I'm not sure how far they went.

    Bad
    Kildare County Council: I think the worst I have sever seen is the M7 between Naas and Kildare. If all those plastic bottles were recycled they would be worth a tidy sum. I've seen bottles, black bags of rubbish, matresses, tyres and more on this stretch. This is a bad omen since this is probably the county with the most motorway in the country (M4, M7, M9). It took 2 months, 5 phone calls, 3 emails and threats of going to newspapers before the slipway at J12 The Curragh was cleaned (it's now as bad as ever again).

    Tipperary South County Coucil: Second worst has to be the M8 south of Cashel.

    Carlow County Council: The M9 Carlow ByPass is very badly maintained. I've seen black bags of rubbish left beside a flyover for over a month.


    The council are not the problem, its the people.

    Thats again saying "my mammy is really bad ass cus she dinn'nt clean ma room"


    Can we get real about this or what? Because I'd like to see some real solutions here not childishness, blaming and avoidance of self responsibility here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭ Danno


    A problem I see is with lorry drivers who park up overnight and drink several bottles of beer, put the lot of them into plastic bags and leave them at the pull-in-site. A few Garda with breathalysers could be the cure to this problem.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 4,814 Mod ✭✭✭✭ G_R


    tbh Mysterious, if we were to go by your logic, we could have the same argument for prisons in the country.

    "Locking them up isn't the answer, just teach people not to kill"

    Doesn't always work. While, of course, in an ideal world, people wouldn't litter, trees/bushes wouldn't grow to big and weeds wouldn't grow at all. But the world we live in is far from perfect, and as such we need people to clean up after those who do litter. Why should those of us who pay road tax have to put up with rubbish all over our roads.

    A Primary (N/M1-33,50) Route Maintenance Agency (name needs some work) needs to established to look after the main roads/m'ways which carry the bulk of our traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭ csd


    One thing I did notice was the litter seemed to be less of a problem on the PPP stretches of the M1 and M8. Maybe this is the answer -- the councils can't be trusted to keep the motorways/primary routes clean, so why not contract it out to the private sector?

    /csd


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    mysterious wrote: »
    The council are not the problem, its the people.

    Thats again saying "my mammy is really bad ass cus she dinn'nt clean ma room"


    Can we get real about this or what? Because I'd like to see some real solutions here not childishness, blaming and avoidance of self responsibility here.

    I agree that the people are the root cause rather than the council but to be honest, I think you have a bit of a romantic notion of how the world should be. Yes, it would be great if everyone took repsonsibility for their own actions and we didn't need any police or anyone cleaning up after anyone else but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon - that's the reality of it!

    I take responsibility for my own actions. I do what I want, when I want but I'm always careful that my actions don't impact negatively on other people (I don't litter, break the law, abuse people...etc.). Unfortunately, there are people out there who won't take responsibility for their actions and will do things that make other people's lives miserable so long as they can get away with it. They will have to reprimanded/punished for things such as littering or else they will keep doing it.

    I mentioned in the M8 thread that people are less likely to litter a street or road if it is clean. If a street or road is already badly littered then people will be more likely to throw down that "one more small piece of litter" because it "won't really make a difference". I think an intensive clean-up followed by a zero-tolerence approach is the best way to go. Hold people responsible for their actions if they can't/won't be sensible and considerate in their actions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    KevR wrote: »
    I agree that the people are the root cause rather than the council but to be honest, I think you have a bit of a romantic notion of how the world should be. Yes, it would be great if everyone took repsonsibility for their own actions and we didn't need any police or anyone cleaning up after anyone else but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon - that's the reality of it!

    I take responsibility for my own actions. I do what I want, when I want but I'm always careful that my actions don't impact negatively on other people (I don't litter, break the law, abuse people...etc.). Unfortunately, there are people out there who won't take responsibility for their actions and will do things that make other people's lives miserable so long as they can get away with it. They will have to reprimanded/punished for things such as littering or else they will keep doing it.

    I mentioned in the M8 thread that people are less likely to litter a street or road if it is clean. If a street or road is already badly littered then people will be more likely to throw down that "one more small piece of litter" because it "won't really make a difference". I think an intensive clean-up followed by a zero-tolerence approach is the best way to go. Hold people responsible for their actions if they can't/won't be sensible and considerate in their actions.


    The most real response I've heard so far. I almost gave up on humanity from reading in horror at the previous posts.

    Well to live in an ideal world, its the ideals you have to put into action. We as you said are more likely to see results and things done if we all follow suit in a responsible way. The way things get done if we some of us lead the path. Not all of us are going to pull our weight. All I'm saying is for the people who are sitting on a forum bitching and asking for the government to do something,

    My question is what have they done?

    Sweet fock all. Thats my point and issue here. This is the root of the problem. We expect someone outside out of ourselves to solve the problem. It's like Einsteins quote.

    The world is evil because good people sit around and do nothing


    If you want littering to stop you go out and make a difference.

    Birdhill In County Tipperary is a village that is where the people actually got out to make a difference and keep their village tidy.

    So I don't support the notion of hiring a government agency picking up our litter because it means that people will just take it for granted and purposely throw litter out of their cars because they know someone will pick it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    mysterious wrote: »
    If you see rubbish on the ground you pick it up.

    What if I see a mattress dumped at the side of the road (I've seen one on the N20 between Mallow and Buttevant)?

    Am I supposed to pick that up?

    What if the litter I see is on the hard-shoulder of the motorway?

    Am I supposed to stop illegally and pick it up while traffic roars past at 120 km/h plus?
    mysterious wrote: »
    If you see someone throwing rubbish you kick them in the balls.

    Even women???? :D

    And you'd get yourself arrested for assault.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    mysterious wrote: »
    The greatest laugh about humanity is, we feel someone is in authority over us.

    The world is evil because good people sit around and do nothing

    Mod Note:

    I'm only going to warn you once on this. I've just quoted two lines of your previous posts above. What have they got to do with infrastructure? Nothing. Continue to post like this will result in lenghty bans and infractions.

    Also constant soapboxing will not be tolerated on this forum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ fresca


    Furet wrote: »
    I suggest people post as many pictures as possible of the filth. This should be a protest thread. Gather as much visual evidence as possible and then send it all to the media.

    If you find so called fly-tipping please call the EPA Hotline on 1850-365-121.
    More info at http://www.epa.ie/.

    I have to say that my experience of them has been positive.

    I appreciate that this thread is more about "general litter" than "fly-tipping", but just in case...


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ fresca


    What if I see a mattress dumped at the side of the road (I've seen one on the N20 between Mallow and Buttevant)?

    Call the EPA hotline on 1850-365-121


  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭ fresca


    Kerry County Council are on the ball.
    Yesterday, they were out picking up litter on the N22 ... just leaving tralee.
    This morning, i counted 15 black sacks on the road side.

    Thanks to the council.
    No thanks to those who litter!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    tech2 wrote: »
    Mod Note:

    I'm only going to warn you once on this. I've just quoted two lines of your previous posts above. What have they got to do with infrastructure? Nothing. Continue to post like this will result in lenghty bans and infractions.

    Also constant soapboxing will not be tolerated on this forum.

    You cannot warn people for making a quote that is a very well known quote that is used by Einstein. It didn't break the charter. Its got to do with this topic about cleaning up our act and we making a difference.

    This naturally ties into my point about this subject.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    mysterious wrote: »
    You cannot warn people for making a quote that is a very well known quote that is used by Einstein. It didn't break the charter. Its got to do with this topic about cleaning up our act and we making a difference.

    This naturally ties into my point about this subject.

    My roads are a disgrace, clean them. Pronto


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    You cannot warn people for making a quote that is a very well known quote that is used by Einstein. It didn't break the charter. Its got to do with this topic about cleaning up our act and we making a difference.

    This naturally ties into my point about this subject.

    Your point has been made 700 million times with no expansion on it.

    People need to clean up their act. Great, we got that.

    But here's the reality:

    Some people won't.

    Hefty fining and CCTV may discourage it and reduce it to a large extent, but some people are still going to get away with it.

    How do you get rid of that litter? Do people stop on the hard shoulder?

    And what about signage repairs (which would also be within the remit of a maintenence agency)? Do people get out and put up new signs?

    I can see it now:

    "Sorry love, just gotta stop the car and put up the convenient new blue motorway sign I keep in the boot for times like this".

    Deal with the points people make instead of continuing to just state one point-of-view. That is a discussion.


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